Razor at stoneleigh...
Discussion
An image from Razor cars on the web as I was also too busy for photos.
This is by far the most developed Kit Car Three Wheeler I have seen in many years. As qdos says it is quite outstandingly good.
I did spend some time talking to John Barlow and David Chapman and they clearly have a LOT of experience with kit cars and are well established builders of the Regal Kit Car.
There has been a considerable development process with this car and the gel coat finish and general presentation was the best I have seen in 40 years of Kit Cars.
See the old stalwart Threewheelers.com for more detail: http://www.3wheelers.com/razor.html
Personally I didn't like the Razor, three wheels is just not my cup of tea. But then I'm not a fan of the grinall scorpion, MEV Tr1ke or the Buckland. Having said that I have driven the Morgan 3-wheeler and I did like that but just because of the engine note!
Can't deny though it's very well engineered and the build quality is superb. I heard it running too and I can imagine it's rather noisy in that cockpit!!
Can't deny though it's very well engineered and the build quality is superb. I heard it running too and I can imagine it's rather noisy in that cockpit!!
I'm suprised they didn't open it when asked. Whenever I went past there was someone trying it for size. I didn't get too close as it's not really my cup of tea but the build quality seemed good.
Only things that stuckme were to do with the roof...
It looked pretty heavy to open when potential buyers tried it.
It seemed very high when open; Would it open fully in a garage?
The hinge area is very narrow and the roof formed a pretty big sail when open; How would it stand up on a windy day?
How do you get out in the case of a roll over?
Only things that stuckme were to do with the roof...
It looked pretty heavy to open when potential buyers tried it.
It seemed very high when open; Would it open fully in a garage?
The hinge area is very narrow and the roof formed a pretty big sail when open; How would it stand up on a windy day?
How do you get out in the case of a roll over?
pfedwards said:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't get.
Afraid to say I tend to agree. I dont understand why 3 wheels is better than 4, I presume it must be worse?Maybe if the cabin tilted to get that sensation of leaning into corners I could understand it more, but for me there will always be a negative around 3 wheelers.
Simple really regards getting or not getting it.
Personal preferences. I for example never got Porsche. They do nothing for me as is also the case for helicopters and I've been in countless of them (helicopters that is)
For me it's Lotus and Hang gliders but I wouldn't for the life of me expect every one else to want the same. Vive La Differance!
The Razor is well worth checking out as are several of the other trikes too. Which people will buy is purely their choice and good for them. There's two that would sorely tempt me if I had the spare money. Actually I just thought of another too!
Personal preferences. I for example never got Porsche. They do nothing for me as is also the case for helicopters and I've been in countless of them (helicopters that is)
For me it's Lotus and Hang gliders but I wouldn't for the life of me expect every one else to want the same. Vive La Differance!
The Razor is well worth checking out as are several of the other trikes too. Which people will buy is purely their choice and good for them. There's two that would sorely tempt me if I had the spare money. Actually I just thought of another too!
To be fair this one bucks the lighter trend - at 500kg it's no lighter than a 4 wheel BEC equivalent and at £10k estimated build cost I'm not sure it's cheaper either.
I still think this looks like something they wanted to build rather than something people necessarily want to buy even though I agree the quality looks pretty phenomenal from pics.
I still think this looks like something they wanted to build rather than something people necessarily want to buy even though I agree the quality looks pretty phenomenal from pics.
Edited by smash on Wednesday 16th May 22:17
I had a serious look and sit in it. IIRC it needs ca. 8' to fully open the cockpit in the garage.
My thoughts:
Positive:
Innovate design
Well thought through
I like the grp moulding that forms the floor and interior tunnel / seats of the cockpit in one piece. Watertight and very neat.
Tail end design well resolved.
Not too cramped inside?
Negative:
Don't like the front end treatment, Far too much headlight going on but could live with it.
Hinged part of cockpit needs stiffening, was very wobbly.
Side windows held on from the outside with velcro - not very secure or watertight? Think of it as a bike!
Don't recall any latch or lock on the cockpit cover. Easily fixed.
Big thing for me was the steering wheel height. Way too high (presumably to aid access into the car). Felt like you were driving with your arms up in the air! I'd imagine your arms would get tired very quickly. I hope this could be fixed at the build stage, but might need a rework on the GRP to make it look factory.
All in all one of the best at the show. If buying I'd check the regs w.r.t to the motorcycle SVA test however - isn't that class limited to a max of 450kgs or something?
My thoughts:
Positive:
Innovate design
Well thought through
I like the grp moulding that forms the floor and interior tunnel / seats of the cockpit in one piece. Watertight and very neat.
Tail end design well resolved.
Not too cramped inside?
Negative:
Don't like the front end treatment, Far too much headlight going on but could live with it.
Hinged part of cockpit needs stiffening, was very wobbly.
Side windows held on from the outside with velcro - not very secure or watertight? Think of it as a bike!
Don't recall any latch or lock on the cockpit cover. Easily fixed.
Big thing for me was the steering wheel height. Way too high (presumably to aid access into the car). Felt like you were driving with your arms up in the air! I'd imagine your arms would get tired very quickly. I hope this could be fixed at the build stage, but might need a rework on the GRP to make it look factory.
All in all one of the best at the show. If buying I'd check the regs w.r.t to the motorcycle SVA test however - isn't that class limited to a max of 450kgs or something?
Interesting point re the weight limit. The designers will have the answer they are clearly knowledgeable but my search of the web suggests thst there MAY be a problem.
MSVA details from Vosa site:
What vehicles will be affected?
Any non-exempt vehicle, which cannot prove conformity to ECWVTA, will require a MSVA test prior to registration. This will include most vehicles imported from outside the EU. Non type-approved vehicles manufactured in very low volumes, amateur built vehicles and vehicles manufactured using parts of other previously registered vehicles. The vehicle classes affected are listed below.
Mopeds and light vehicles
2 wheeled vehicle
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50cc
a maximum design speed of 45km/h (28 mph)
not exceeding 270kg unladen weight
3 wheeled vehicle
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50cc
and a maximum design speed of 45km/h (28 mph)
not exceeding 270 kg unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of no more than 300kg
4 wheeled vehicle (light quadricycle)
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50cc
a maximum design speed of 45km/h (28mph)
not exceeding 350kg unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of no more than 200kg
If any of the above moped classes are powered by an electric motor or any other internal combustion engine:
the continuous power must not exceed 4kW (5 Bhp)
the weight of the batteries must not be included in the unladen weight
Motorcycles
2 wheeled vehicle
with or without sidecar
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity of more than 50cc and/or a maximum design speed of more than 45km/h (28 mph)
Heavy Motor Tricycles and Quadricycles
3 wheeled vehicle (with 3 symmetrically arranged wheels)
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity of more than 50cc and/or a maximum design speed of more than 45km/h (28mph)
not exceeding 1000kg unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of a maximum of 1500kg
4 wheeled vehicle (heavy quadricycles)
Quadricycles (other than those referred to under light quadricycles above) whose maximum net engine power does not exceed 15 kW (20 Bhp)
more than 350kg but not exceeding 400kg (550kg for goods vehicles) unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of a maximum of 1000kg
if powered by an electric motor the weight of the batteries must not be included in the unladen weight
[top]
Which vehicles does MSVA not apply to?
Vehicles with a maximum design speed not exceeding 6km/h
Cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedaling.
Vehicles intended for pedestrian control
Trial or enduro motorcycles intended for use in competitions, on roads or whatever the terrain.
Trials motorcycles shall have the following characteristics:
maximum seat height of 700mm;
minimum ground clearance of 280mm; and
maximum fuel tank capacity of 4 litres
Enduro motorcycles shall have the following characteristics:
minimum seat height of 900mm; and
minimum ground clearance of 310mm.
I will be most interested to hear the answer.
MSVA details from Vosa site:
What vehicles will be affected?
Any non-exempt vehicle, which cannot prove conformity to ECWVTA, will require a MSVA test prior to registration. This will include most vehicles imported from outside the EU. Non type-approved vehicles manufactured in very low volumes, amateur built vehicles and vehicles manufactured using parts of other previously registered vehicles. The vehicle classes affected are listed below.
Mopeds and light vehicles
2 wheeled vehicle
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50cc
a maximum design speed of 45km/h (28 mph)
not exceeding 270kg unladen weight
3 wheeled vehicle
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50cc
and a maximum design speed of 45km/h (28 mph)
not exceeding 270 kg unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of no more than 300kg
4 wheeled vehicle (light quadricycle)
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50cc
a maximum design speed of 45km/h (28mph)
not exceeding 350kg unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of no more than 200kg
If any of the above moped classes are powered by an electric motor or any other internal combustion engine:
the continuous power must not exceed 4kW (5 Bhp)
the weight of the batteries must not be included in the unladen weight
Motorcycles
2 wheeled vehicle
with or without sidecar
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity of more than 50cc and/or a maximum design speed of more than 45km/h (28 mph)
Heavy Motor Tricycles and Quadricycles
3 wheeled vehicle (with 3 symmetrically arranged wheels)
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity of more than 50cc and/or a maximum design speed of more than 45km/h (28mph)
not exceeding 1000kg unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of a maximum of 1500kg
4 wheeled vehicle (heavy quadricycles)
Quadricycles (other than those referred to under light quadricycles above) whose maximum net engine power does not exceed 15 kW (20 Bhp)
more than 350kg but not exceeding 400kg (550kg for goods vehicles) unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of a maximum of 1000kg
if powered by an electric motor the weight of the batteries must not be included in the unladen weight
[top]
Which vehicles does MSVA not apply to?
Vehicles with a maximum design speed not exceeding 6km/h
Cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedaling.
Vehicles intended for pedestrian control
Trial or enduro motorcycles intended for use in competitions, on roads or whatever the terrain.
Trials motorcycles shall have the following characteristics:
maximum seat height of 700mm;
minimum ground clearance of 280mm; and
maximum fuel tank capacity of 4 litres
Enduro motorcycles shall have the following characteristics:
minimum seat height of 900mm; and
minimum ground clearance of 310mm.
I will be most interested to hear the answer.
"Heavy Motor Tricycles and Quadricycles
3 wheeled vehicle (with 3 symmetrically arranged wheels)
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity of more than 50cc and/or a maximum design speed of more than 45km/h (28mph)
not exceeding 1000kg unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of a maximum of 1500kg"
As far as I can see it's under 1000kg. So according to the quote above it's OK for MSVA
3 wheeled vehicle (with 3 symmetrically arranged wheels)
fitted with an internal combustion engine having a cylinder capacity of more than 50cc and/or a maximum design speed of more than 45km/h (28mph)
not exceeding 1000kg unladen weight
if designed to carry goods a payload of a maximum of 1500kg"
As far as I can see it's under 1000kg. So according to the quote above it's OK for MSVA
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