Discussion
auyt said:
The Discussion about the Rope Roll Bar is interesting, as I said I unknowingly owned a Competition Clan Crasader. and for a Party trick I used to stand on the roff and jump up and down and the tyres and suspension flexed!!
There are a few pics on the web and I just found an article from 89 when they were new.
This one was on Ebay reciently, sadly should have bought it but...
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/5n6xAOAs.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/sSDW7iXz" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/sSDW7iXz.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/tys8BUv4" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/tys8BUv4.jpg)
Is that a standard Clover? Front looks about right with PU lights (although a few Crusaders were converted) rear arches were for the wider Alfa track IIRC but the MG Metro wheels make me think McCoy There are a few pics on the web and I just found an article from 89 when they were new.
This one was on Ebay reciently, sadly should have bought it but...
dom9 said:
Surely that design could be updated fairly easily and would sell well?
I want a kit, mid-engine coupe!!
Well, the Minari was updated to swap the Alfa flat four to a Subaru flat 4 to create the Murtaya... I want a kit, mid-engine coupe!!
Personally, if we're talking Alfa boxer mid-engined coupes, I preferred the Pelland/Kudos to the Clover, but the Pelland might be a bit too swoopy and curvaceous for some tastes - either way, that's not a bad idea though.
Just the usual problem of matching the equipment levels and refinement in modern production cars for a reasonable build cost.
The car above is possibly the first (or an early one) one produced, which had wolfrace sonic wheels like that one. Afterwards they had a compomotive spoked type wheel.
I owned a Clover for a few years (chassis number 7 - apparently it's in Germany now), using it as my everyday car. They had great potential, but as standard the suspension geometry is not great at the front, although with some time and/or money this can be fixed. The Alfasud gearboxes are renowed for syncro wear, and indeed mine crunched on 2nd gear unless you nursed it in. The gearchange was also not helped by being actuated by a long rod running under the engine and gearbox which flexed and also reduced ground clearance. The steering racks were also too slow for a performance car being 3.7 turns lock to lock, although this isn't a major problem.
Compared to a Crusader, or an 'Irish' Clan, which I have also owned, the Clover is much more difficult to drive, as there's much less feel through the steering (although mine had worn out shocks aswell), and the gearbox is more difficult, but the straight line performance is much greater and they can actually corner quickly, you just have to be braver! They also sound great.
If you do a google image search, mine was the red one D680 YHK. Most of the photo's were taken by me.
I owned a Clover for a few years (chassis number 7 - apparently it's in Germany now), using it as my everyday car. They had great potential, but as standard the suspension geometry is not great at the front, although with some time and/or money this can be fixed. The Alfasud gearboxes are renowed for syncro wear, and indeed mine crunched on 2nd gear unless you nursed it in. The gearchange was also not helped by being actuated by a long rod running under the engine and gearbox which flexed and also reduced ground clearance. The steering racks were also too slow for a performance car being 3.7 turns lock to lock, although this isn't a major problem.
Compared to a Crusader, or an 'Irish' Clan, which I have also owned, the Clover is much more difficult to drive, as there's much less feel through the steering (although mine had worn out shocks aswell), and the gearbox is more difficult, but the straight line performance is much greater and they can actually corner quickly, you just have to be braver! They also sound great.
If you do a google image search, mine was the red one D680 YHK. Most of the photo's were taken by me.
witko999 said:
...They also sound great.
I had a Raffo Tipo 12 with the Alfasud engine/gearbox and the gearchange was lousy on that, too (though I never suffered synchro problems), but yes, it's a very nice sounding engine when you have a short exhaust system fitted with a mid-engined installation.I blew head gaskets on mine almost weekly, but that was probably down to me having gobbed up the centrifugal cut-out on the rotor arm with araldite, so that I could routinely rev it to 7K+ rpm.
witko999 said:
The car above is possibly the first (or an early one) one produced, which had wolfrace sonic wheels like that one. Afterwards they had a compomotive spoked type wheel.
I owned a Clover for a few years (chassis number 7 - apparently it's in Germany now), using it as my everyday car. They had great potential, but as standard the suspension geometry is not great at the front, although with some time and/or money this can be fixed. The Alfasud gearboxes are renowed for syncro wear, and indeed mine crunched on 2nd gear unless you nursed it in. The gearchange was also not helped by being actuated by a long rod running under the engine and gearbox which flexed and also reduced ground clearance. The steering racks were also too slow for a performance car being 3.7 turns lock to lock, although this isn't a major problem.
Compared to a Crusader, or an 'Irish' Clan, which I have also owned, the Clover is much more difficult to drive, as there's much less feel through the steering (although mine had worn out shocks aswell), and the gearbox is more difficult, but the straight line performance is much greater and they can actually corner quickly, you just have to be braver! They also sound great.
If you do a google image search, mine was the red one D680 YHK. Most of the photo's were taken by me.
Magic stuff thats Just the insight I was looking for.I owned a Clover for a few years (chassis number 7 - apparently it's in Germany now), using it as my everyday car. They had great potential, but as standard the suspension geometry is not great at the front, although with some time and/or money this can be fixed. The Alfasud gearboxes are renowed for syncro wear, and indeed mine crunched on 2nd gear unless you nursed it in. The gearchange was also not helped by being actuated by a long rod running under the engine and gearbox which flexed and also reduced ground clearance. The steering racks were also too slow for a performance car being 3.7 turns lock to lock, although this isn't a major problem.
Compared to a Crusader, or an 'Irish' Clan, which I have also owned, the Clover is much more difficult to drive, as there's much less feel through the steering (although mine had worn out shocks aswell), and the gearbox is more difficult, but the straight line performance is much greater and they can actually corner quickly, you just have to be braver! They also sound great.
If you do a google image search, mine was the red one D680 YHK. Most of the photo's were taken by me.
Regards
Graeme
Adding on from that and midengine coupes besides the ALFA 33 Stradale
This is a car that needs to be cloned.
http://2000gt.net/JP6/JP6.php
http://www.automobiliac.com/automobiliac/tag/jp6
This is a car that needs to be cloned.
http://2000gt.net/JP6/JP6.php
http://www.automobiliac.com/automobiliac/tag/jp6
auyt said:
Adding on from that and midengine coupes besides the ALFA 33 Stradale
This is a car that needs to be cloned.
http://2000gt.net/JP6/JP6.php
http://www.automobiliac.com/automobiliac/tag/jp6
It was back in the 80s and was brought into the UK as the UVA MontageThis is a car that needs to be cloned.
http://2000gt.net/JP6/JP6.php
http://www.automobiliac.com/automobiliac/tag/jp6
http://www.fugitives.co.uk/m6det.htm
It was indeed a gorgeous looking car and you've now triggered my mind into thinking as I have the perfect chassis to go under that body....
Edited by qdos on Wednesday 27th February 08:41
One more thing that I forgot to add about the Clover is that the stated kerb weight of 610kg's was wildly optimistic. I took mine on a weighbridge and it weighed 770kg without driver. Still light, but not massively so. An Irish clan weighs about 580kg for comparison.
Personally I wanted to fit the 16v 1.7 engine to mine, although it would require some glassfibre work and redesigning the crossmember. Either that, or fit a transverse inline engine in similar style to an elise.
Personally I wanted to fit the 16v 1.7 engine to mine, although it would require some glassfibre work and redesigning the crossmember. Either that, or fit a transverse inline engine in similar style to an elise.
qdos said:
It was back in the 80s and was brought into the UK as the UVA Montage
http://www.fugitives.co.uk/m6det.htm
It was indeed a gorgeous looking car and you've now triggered my mind into thinking as I have the perfect chassis to go under that body....
The Montage was a shorted MClaren M6GT to sit on a VW chassis.http://www.fugitives.co.uk/m6det.htm
It was indeed a gorgeous looking car and you've now triggered my mind into thinking as I have the perfect chassis to go under that body....
Edited by qdos on Wednesday 27th February 08:41
The Toytoa Brock JP6 is quite a different car.
Interesting one of the Key things to making a Car shape work is the correct windscreen and the Montage worked as It used the same windscreen.
witko999 said:
One more thing that I forgot to add about the Clover is that the stated kerb weight of 610kg's was wildly optimistic. I took mine on a weighbridge and it weighed 770kg without driver. Still light, but not massively so. An Irish clan weighs about 580kg for comparison.
Personally I wanted to fit the 16v 1.7 engine to mine, although it would require some glassfibre work and redesigning the crossmember. Either that, or fit a transverse inline engine in similar style to an elise.
I would imagine that the extra weight went into the Cast ion engine block and heavier gearbox.Personally I wanted to fit the 16v 1.7 engine to mine, although it would require some glassfibre work and redesigning the crossmember. Either that, or fit a transverse inline engine in similar style to an elise.
I would imagine that the weekest point as far as a gruntier engine in this setup is the gearbox.
Where was glass work needed to fit the 16v?
auyt said:
Adding on from that and midengine coupes besides the ALFA 33 Stradale
This is a car that needs to be cloned.
In the same vein (and tenuously on topic for the Clan, as it too was originally Imp powered) was the Voodoo:This is a car that needs to be cloned.
The project now lies effectively dormant with Graham Boulter's Voodoo Sportscars. There has been no progress for as long as I can remember, though, and I remember corresponding with him on the project maybe 20 years ago.
auyt said:
I would imagine that the extra weight went into the Cast iron engine block and heavier gearbox.
Yes, the Alfa engine and gearbox are both massively heavier than the Imp units - both engine and gearbox on the Imp are by far the lightest car items I've come across, with the exception of Reliant. The double wishbone front suspension and disc brakes add a chunk to the weight too - the Imp swing axles and drums on the Clan aren't perfect, but they are quite light in comparison. Even that lot wouldn't account for a 190kg weight difference, though.Edited by TheLastPost on Wednesday 27th February 13:58
As the owner of two Clans, A Luff competition Shell ( the White Hillclimb car) and an 'Irish' Clan (the Green/anthracite road car), I always find the quoted weight for the cars a bit on the light side.
The Hillclimb car is over 500 kg even though its got lightweight tubular wishbones, lightweight brakes, perspex windows etc. The road 'Irish' Clan was weighed at approx 640kg, and the shell is completely standard apart from the tilt and slide sunroof and lurid paint.
Davrians also were very optimistic with their weights as well, seems to be a common thing among Imp Kit cars.
The road car has nearly done 90,000 miles (70,000 in my ownership) running a semi-race spec 998 on twin webers, produces approx 100 bhp and happy revs to 8800rpm, and is still on original bores and rings. Very nice car to drive, handles beautifully and has superb traction. Clans always feel quite solid and do feel like a bigger car, I think mainly because of the full size windscreen.
I have never been in a Clover but I imagine it would feel the same, but interior room might feel a bit tight with the bulkhead behind the seats for the mid-engine. I have a bit of an affliction for the Imp engine which is the main reason why I have never owned a Clover, the only Clan model not owned (had a Crusader as well, until I sold it to a guy in Munich last year).
Its a pity they only made a few Clovers ( I think around 28 ), iffy handing out of the box when new didn't help but supposedly easy to cure. They were well finished with a top spayjob and leather interiors ( ex Delorean i've been told ).
The white Hillclimb car is fun, with an approx 170hp turbocharged and fuel injected 998cc Imp engine. Not competitive with well developed Westfields or Caterhams, but good fun and different.
Eric
long time kit car forum lurker
The Hillclimb car is over 500 kg even though its got lightweight tubular wishbones, lightweight brakes, perspex windows etc. The road 'Irish' Clan was weighed at approx 640kg, and the shell is completely standard apart from the tilt and slide sunroof and lurid paint.
Davrians also were very optimistic with their weights as well, seems to be a common thing among Imp Kit cars.
The road car has nearly done 90,000 miles (70,000 in my ownership) running a semi-race spec 998 on twin webers, produces approx 100 bhp and happy revs to 8800rpm, and is still on original bores and rings. Very nice car to drive, handles beautifully and has superb traction. Clans always feel quite solid and do feel like a bigger car, I think mainly because of the full size windscreen.
I have never been in a Clover but I imagine it would feel the same, but interior room might feel a bit tight with the bulkhead behind the seats for the mid-engine. I have a bit of an affliction for the Imp engine which is the main reason why I have never owned a Clover, the only Clan model not owned (had a Crusader as well, until I sold it to a guy in Munich last year).
Its a pity they only made a few Clovers ( I think around 28 ), iffy handing out of the box when new didn't help but supposedly easy to cure. They were well finished with a top spayjob and leather interiors ( ex Delorean i've been told ).
The white Hillclimb car is fun, with an approx 170hp turbocharged and fuel injected 998cc Imp engine. Not competitive with well developed Westfields or Caterhams, but good fun and different.
Eric
long time kit car forum lurker
TurboClan said:
The white Hillclimb car is fun, with an approx 170hp turbocharged and fuel injected 998cc Imp engine.
More detail on the engine spec. on that one would be interesting!I always remember Cam Johnson's claims of over 190bhp for his turbocharged Davrian being met with some skepticism, but I guess time and engine management systems have moved on?
How have you stiffened the block - is the normal sandwich plate between block and sump proving adequate?
The Imp engine was a work of art; much maligned because of the head gasket problems suffered by careless owners and very under-rated, IMO.
Lovely examples there - Loving the green, road car particularly!
Pity that someone has taken this project on and updated it!
I wonder what the 3 cylinder Pug 107 engines can be persuaded to put out or even the Fiat 2-cylinder engine, without the forced induction?
A slightly shorter front overhang and fixed headlights and there probably isn't much more needed!
Pity that someone has taken this project on and updated it!
I wonder what the 3 cylinder Pug 107 engines can be persuaded to put out or even the Fiat 2-cylinder engine, without the forced induction?
A slightly shorter front overhang and fixed headlights and there probably isn't much more needed!
The Hillclimb engine spec is basically a 998cc Imp engine (wet liner), big valve head, works R20 cam,all pretty standard rally imp spec engine. I have fitted a home made block strengthening plate, M12 studs and alloy blocks between the plate and caps. The turbo is a Garrett GT17 off a Saab 9-3, Fuel injection throttle bodies of a Honda CBR600 ( bigger CBR900 injectors fiited. Chargecooler is a Pace one for a Calibra Turbo. The manifold, plenum chamber is all my own work and all assembled by myself, including the megasquirt to run it.
Block Strengthen plate
Turbo and throttle bodies
Inlet Plenum and Chargecooler = very short inlet path.
Block Strengthen plate
Turbo and throttle bodies
Inlet Plenum and Chargecooler = very short inlet path.
TurboClan said:
The Hillclimb engine spec is basically a 998cc Imp engine (wet liner), big valve head, works R20 cam,all pretty standard rally imp spec engine. I have fitted a home made block strengthening plate, M12 studs and alloy blocks between the plate and caps. The turbo is a Garrett GT17 off a Saab 9-3, Fuel injection throttle bodies of a Honda CBR600 ( bigger CBR900 injectors fiited. Chargecooler is a Pace one for a Calibra Turbo. The manifold, plenum chamber is all my own work and all assembled by myself, including the megasquirt to run it.
What clutch are you running?I'm trying to find a suitable clutch for a project so need the .875x10 spline and about 180mm diameter. Ideally with sprung centre for road use.
Steve
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