Single Seat Road Car Kit. . is there such a thing

[Glade]

ezakimak said:

have a look at the BAC Mono build diary
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f195/s111-bac-mono...

Porn!

[Steve_D]

The column needs a collapsible section or the lower shaft has to be at better than 15 degree angle to the column. Also the steering wheel will need a crush boss and padding.

Steve

Edited by Steve_D on Thursday 4th July 07:28

[ezakimak]

craig7l said:

http://f1-67.com/specSheet.html

I thought this was being sold as a kit?...

you might be right about the F1-67, not sure if you were sugesting that the link i posted was the same thing but John is building this thing himself.

F1-67 which is inspired by the cars of 1967


Home built replica of Brabham BT23

[ezakimak]

Steve_D said:

The column needs a co lapsable section or the lower shaft has to be at better than 15 degree angle to the column. Also the steering wheel will need a crush boss and padding.

Steve

I have to agree with you here Steve,

It’s one issue that we struggled with a lot with our initial attempts. One of the drivers we were trying to get in was 7’2” tall with size 15 feet. Trying to get him in a single seater of any other make was just about impossible. We also considered the possibilities of to much enthusiasm getting the better of us at tracks and the safety implications. Some of the single seater we benchmarked against had some questionable design features. I would recommend getting out and sitting in a few. Some of the Van Diemen and Mygale cars that we sat in, we were unable to get comfortable in, we would have had to drive with our elbows resting on top of our chest which was not an easy position to adopt or comfortable. Other cars, one of the f1000s, had a steering column that came down between your knees before connecting to a rear mounted steering rack. I can only imagine the problems that would cause when you had put it on its lid and had to get out upside down. Others had questionable suspension mounting points that would have been a large liability in the case of a crash.

I think if you are looking at converting an older single seater to road use you need to look at these things also,

- Feet to column clearance and the ability to use normal shoes.
- Front bulkhead behind front wheel centreline, there are no tyre barriers to crash into on the road so you will need some crumple zone.
- Collapsible steering column
- Generous cockpit width to get comfortable.
- Ground clearance or the capacity to increase this without upsetting the suspension, this may be able to be completed with higher aspect ratio tyres and a larger offset front wheel to avoid any changes to scrub radius that would result.
- Suspension mounts that do not come into the cockpit. The last thing you want is a suspension arm to shish kabob you whilst you are still in the chassis
- Larger suspension bearings, some of the latter formula cars will use very small suspension bearings as both a weight saving measure and a failure point to prevent the tub being destroyed in an accident. These small bearings will wear out really quickly on the road and be a liability for a large impact or pot hole.

Ryan

[PaulKemp]

To get a proper race car on the road needs a good understanding of IVA regs
The column issue stated is but one
The mechanical and electrical immobiliser is usually complied with by using steering lock from a donor vehicle
Seat belt adjustment and captive bolts
Seatbelt minimum upper mounting height
Minimum lower seatbelt width may be an issue
The cockpit area is tested for sharp edges
Hand brake
You would be wise not to disregard the Furore which has addressed all these issues, the original twin bike engined car built by Russ was monster quick

[benters]

could be a good basis to start from !
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/...

[Steve_D]

PaulKemp said:

To get a proper race car on the road needs a good understanding of IVA regs
The column issue stated is but one
The mechanical and electrical immobiliser is usually complied with by using steering lock from a donor vehicle
Seat belt adjustment and captive bolts
Seatbelt minimum upper mounting height
Minimum lower seatbelt width may be an issue
The cockpit area is tested for sharp edges
Hand brake
You would be wise not to disregard the Furore which has addressed all these issues, the original twin bike engined car built by Russ was monster quick

good list but I would add....
High back seats or headrest.
Rear fog.
Reverse gear and light.

There are many more.
Steve

[KMF]

there are lots of issues but they are what car building is all about. as long as you know the problem then you can find a solution. ford have just put their FF on the road as a road going car. that car comes from a Mygale FF race car. the BAC mono started life as a Juno FF race car

[KMF]

There are some nice cars about to start with,

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/49141/crossl...

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/49179/van_di...

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/48942/formul...

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/48892/mygale...

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/48462/swift_...

Edited by KMF on Thursday 4th July 21:51

[ezakimak]

ezakimak said:

A local gent here is building himself from scratch a Brabham BT23 replica with a 5.7L LS1 and Audi 5spd box in the back

http://s144.photobucket.com/user/Monty155/library/...


regards Ryan

he has it rolling now, looks like a bit of fun

[benters]

Bloody hell . . . WOW

[Russ Bost]

This topic seems to crop up from time to time, take a look at the previous thread on exactly the same subject

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

For anyone who can't be bothered to read the whole thread I've copied my previous comments below - I believe nearly all of them are just as valid in this discussion as they were previously

"I have already said "If you're looking at putting a Formula Ford on the road then my strong advice would be DON'T (I've done it, so I speak from experience!). By the time you've changed everything you need to for IVA (which is a LOT more than you might think) & then changed all the suspension to give more than a 1" ground clearance it would have been cheaper to start from scratch."

Incidentally an old Kent would be far easier to get thro' IVA if you're doing so as a private individual as it is pre CAT requirements

The list of what you would probably need to change starts with (but certainly won't end here):-

For IVA:-

Handbrake (lever, cables, calipers)
Steering column
Steering wheel
Steering wheel hub
Brake bias adjustment removed
Lights, inc indicators brake lights, fog light headlights etc
Switchgear for above
Wiring for above
Warning lights for above
Speedometer
Seat belt mounts (will almost certainly be too low)
Fuel filler & possibly fuel tank position also possibly fuel hoses
Rack boots
Mudguards
Sharp edges (have fun with that one!) - if you have no screen you'll lose the exempt area behind the steering wheel
Exhaust (+CAT if going for later engine & possibly therefore management system/ignition/fuelling if it won't accomodate a CAT)
Reflectors
Horn
Tyres
No. plate mounting position & light
There are a host of other "maybe" issues like pedal box/master cylinders or reservoirs, routing of fuel/brake lines, wiring etc - requirements for IVA are very specific & bear no relation to FIA rules & what is considered suitable & safe for the track, also visibility of speedo & controls can be an issue as can actually finding room to mount a handbrake - race car cockpits are VERY tight
Not being silly, but have you checked you'll fit a FF cockpit? - many "average" blokes would struggle!

After all the above DVLA will then give it a Q plate as there's nothing age related - this may or may not bother you, but could certainly affect resale value

For sensible use on the road:-

Raise ride height - YOU WILL NOT DO THIS WITH ADJUSTMENT ON THE SUSPENSION ALONE PLEASE LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!!
Change steering rack - race racks are horrid on the road - been there done that!
Seat - might be fine for a blast to a local meet, not so good when you have a visit to a show 100 miles away
Fuel tank unless you want to hop between service stations every 50 miles or so
Fuel sender unit - kinda handy to know when the jungle juice is going to run out
Probably additional cooling/fan etc FF's aren't designed to sit in traffic jams

Above I have covered most of the major points, I'm bound to have forgotten some. Please don't think I'm just being negative, I'm most certainly not, I would love to see more radical styled cars on the road, 7's & Cobras are plain boring, but don't wander into this with your eyes shut, you could be opening up a large money pit. It's obvious (not being rude) that you don't fully understand all the nuances of IVA or the issues with suspension/ground clearance, I would do a LOT more research before diving in.

If you want to give me a ring & pick my brain (what little of it is left) you're welcome to do so 07905 879407 at any sensible time, as said I have done the FF on the road thing & lots of IVA experience with formula style cars"


To add to the above if you were seriously thinking of doing it I have a customers car for sale at present (fully registered & road legal) which with a bit of arm bending could be bought for less than £12k, there is absolutely no way on this earth that you will ever put a Formula Ford or similar on the road for anything like that price unless you are very, very capable & can do all the work yourself, but if that's the plan then bear in mind that my first build (from a FF chassis) took around 4 years of working 3 days a week around 46 weeks a year from planning to getting it registered.

Also someone mentioned putting a 7'2" bloke in a single seater - I've had a 6' 8" guy try my car & would easily fit with minor mods, getting a 7'2" guy in would not be a problem!(You won't do that with a Formula Ford!)

[Steve_D]

Russ Bost said:

It all

But forgot 'reverse gear' which can be difficult in a 7 so not sure how you would do it in a FF.

Steve

[KMF]

From what i know of FF, they have to be fitted with reverse gear as standard

[ezakimak]

Russ Bost said:

Also someone mentioned putting a 7'2" bloke in a single seater - I've had a 6' 8" guy try my car & would easily fit with minor mods, getting a 7'2" guy in would not be a problem!(You won't do that with a Formula Ford!)

That was me, issues were more than just getting them in. Size 15 feet? around 115kg for the driver? helmet clerance needed to be below line drawn from roll bar to front scuttle tubes to allow the driver to compete in motorsport events...... Car is also being completed as an ongoing project for local magazine in australia so was a research activity and aimed to present the posibility that you could do it.

currently building wishbones.

[Russ Bost]

I have to say size 15 feet could be an issue - pedal boxes are a bit tight in single seaters!!

[Jackspistonheadsaccount]

http://www.tigerracing.com/model/era-hss/

going to assume from the photos that it's not road legal aha but you might be able to work with them to make it road legal. In a same way you'd make a FF road legal, except this might be easier if you buy as a kit, plus Tiger/ERA may be able to help you with it as they've been building road legal kits for years

[Ambleton]

[Hoonigan]

Jackspistonheadsaccount said:

http://www.tigerracing.com/model/era-hss/

going to assume from the photos that it's not road legal aha but you might be able to work with them to make it road legal. In a same way you'd make a FF road legal, except this might be easier if you buy as a kit, plus Tiger/ERA may be able to help you with it as they've been building road legal kits for years

Love these so much, gonna have a crack at one with the boy when he's a bit older.