Motorcycle Engines with good Low end Torque ?

[Spanna]

VL800 Intruder mentioned above, you can get the same engine in a Suzuki VX800 or Sachs Roadster. Lots of torque for a bike engine.

I had an NTV 650, same engine as Honda Hawk and Deauville, I wouldn't want to use it in anything much heavier than a bike.

[fuoriserie]

Spanna said:

VL800 Intruder mentioned above, you can get the same engine in a Suzuki VX800 or Sachs Roadster. Lots of torque for a bike engine.

I had an NTV 650, same engine as Honda Hawk and Deauville, I wouldn't want to use it in anything much heavier than a bike.

Thanks for the info on the Suzuki VX800 and the Honda Hawk.

[Gareth9702]

I am surprised no-one has mentioned the Honda VFR750/800 engine. Plentiful (just check the number on ebay!) and cheap because they are very long lasting. They have low-down talk, make a great sound, and a racing pedigree. They are also compact. What more could you want?

[fuoriserie]

Gareth9702 said:

I am surprised no-one has mentioned the Honda VFR750/800 engine. Plentiful (just check the number on ebay!) and cheap because they are very long lasting. They have low-down talk, make a great sound, and a racing pedigree. They are also compact. What more could you want?

Interesting figures :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_VFR750F

[Steffan]

fuoriserie said:

Gareth9702 said:

I am surprised no-one has mentioned the Honda VFR750/800 engine. Plentiful (just check the number on ebay!) and cheap because they are very long lasting. They have low-down talk, make a great sound, and a racing pedigree. They are also compact. What more could you want?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_VFR750F

Indeed it is an interesting engine for kit car use. I remember talking to the ND of the biggest Honda dealer in the Midlands about Honda engine reliability and his comment was that in over 100,000 sales his network had never yet seen a major engine failure in a Honda engine. I shall keep this in mind when I start looking for my next bike engine kit car project. Very interesting.

[fuoriserie]

http://www.autoevolution.com/mengine/bmw-r-850-r-2...

BMW Boxer 850 R .

[fuoriserie]

http://www.marotti.eu/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz2nXgMHTHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEy8lSkYPEk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtSkwEc8dhc

With a Honda 750 cc V4 engine.

Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 23 June 21:34

[gtmdriver]

None of the modern bike engines, regardless of capacity, have the same sort of torque curve as a car engine. Not even the V twins like Ducati or Aprillia. The nearest are the Guzzi and BMW engines you originally suggested.They also allow you to fit, with some modification, a car type gearbox, but I think you would find them both lacking in outright power. The bigger American V twins like the Harley and the Victory produce large amounts of torque but they are generally narrow angle V twins and can shake a bit.

[Mr2Mike]

gtmdriver said:

None of the modern bike engines, regardless of capacity, have the same sort of torque curve as a car engine. Not even the V twins like Ducati or Aprillia.

You are quite correct, there is no normally aspirated car engine of equivalent capacity that can come even remotely close to the area under the torque curve of something like an RSV.

[fuoriserie]

http://www.brp-powertrain.com/en/desktopdefault.as...


The Rotax engine used on KTM and Can Am trikes is interesting and other :

http://www.brp-powertrain.com/en/desktopdefault.as...

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 24th June 20:53

[fuoriserie]

gtmdriver said:

None of the modern bike engines, regardless of capacity, have the same sort of torque curve as a car engine. Not even the V twins like Ducati or Aprillia. The nearest are the Guzzi and BMW engines you originally suggested.They also allow you to fit, with some modification, a car type gearbox, but I think you would find them both lacking in outright power. The bigger American V twins like the Harley and the Victory produce large amounts of torque but they are generally narrow angle V twins and can shake a bit.

True, but It really depends on the use of the engine and I have found a few that would fit the bill, but I still see the Guzzi and Bmw on top of my list, but I'm still looking...

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 26th June 08:11

[Plasticspoon]

Full power v-max?
Just a few cc's more than you were asking for.

[fuoriserie]

Plasticspoon said:

Full power v-max?
Just a few cc's more than you were asking for.

Nice but expensive...

[fuoriserie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_VFR800

Very interesting V4 engine with V-TEC

[fuoriserie]

http://www.globalsuzuki.com/motorcycle/moto/street...

Suzuki Bandit 1250cc.

[Steffan]

fuoriserie said:

http://www.globalsuzuki.com/motorcycle/moto/street...

Suzuki Bandit 1250cc.

Now there is a Motor! I wrote on another thread recently that I was considering fitting a m/c engine (Hayabusa) into a Smart car which is a possible project I am looking at currently because my Quantum RS Turbo and Banham Sprite are finished and up for sale. Stuart Mills kindly pointed out (quite rightly) that he had driven such conversions and that the noise levels were awful.

Given his obvious first hand knowledge I am now looking for another vehicle base and currently the old Berkeley is rearing its head once more because noise would be much less of a problem. However drive train could be a challenge I am not using the heavy Mini subframes and drive. Needs a bit of thought but I can see a winter project in this somewhere! I am open to all suggestions from anyone interrsted in the subject and hopefully will be in funds again shortly if the kit cars sell. Got to spend the money on more kit cars otherwise SWMBO will snaffle it for a cruise!

[fuoriserie]

Scooby Drew said:

My bike has the later version of this and I couldn't recommend it more highly - designed and built by Rotax and apparently bulletproof
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-APRILIA-RSV-MILLE-1...

Nice engine.

[fuoriserie]

Steffan said:

Now there is a Motor! I wrote on another thread recently that I was considering fitting a m/c engine (Hayabusa) into a Smart car which is a possible project I am looking at currently because my Quantum RS Turbo and Banham Sprite are finished and up for sale. Stuart Mills kindly pointed out (quite rightly) that he had driven such conversions and that the noise levels were awful.

Given his obvious first hand knowledge I am now looking for another vehicle base and currently the old Berkeley is rearing its head once more because noise would be much less of a problem. However drive train could be a challenge I am not using the heavy Mini subframes and drive. Needs a bit of thought but I can see a winter project in this somewhere! I am open to all suggestions from anyone interrsted in the subject and hopefully will be in funds again shortly if the kit cars sell. Got to spend the money on more kit cars otherwise SWMBO will snaffle it for a cruise!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdBKihL8zJI&list=UUL-fFF7BlFa30hP9AUc172w

The Tripod 1 testing a Suzuki Bandit engine......

[dom9]

My, this sounds like quite the engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_VFR1200F

Always interested in these bike engine topics - I still want to do a very lightweight bike engined car at some point.

The 350kg electric car on the new page today suggests this is very do-able (assuming electric motors and battery weight a similar amount to a bike engine, cooling etc)!

[Steffan]

dom9 said:

My, this sounds like quite the engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_VFR1200F

Always interested in these bike engine topics - I still want to do a very lightweight bike engined car at some point.

The 350kg electric car on the new page today suggests this is very do-able (assuming electric motors and battery weight a similar amount to a bike engine, cooling etc)!

I would expect bike engined cars to be lighter than any battery car of the same size with a decent range say 100 real miles not the ones achieved on flat circuits with no gradients. Below 100 miles I question the practicality of electric use. I did a fair bit of research some years ago involving Vindicator cars and Staffrdshire university and personally concluded that except for vanity purchases electric cars were a nonsense choice. Unless you really are a masochist.

The range difficulties are insurmountable except for short urban journeys of say 25 to 40 miles round trip. Otherwise being certain you can return especially if carrying passengers and luggage really is not practicable. Spontenaeity of journey and adding another stop a little distance away from the proposed route is not possible because the range in the real world of nighttime driving, severe rain and weather, snow, sleet and all the other users of electricity in such cars that can come upon us unexpectedly all too suddenly, makes the reality of any additional journeys and impulse decisions to add another 50 miles to the journey impossible. Possibly for short distance urban use otherwise not for me.

Doubtless the converts will maintain that you can recharge easily in towns and that is becoming true. But on the open road is which is where I want to go with the opportunity and power to face all weather conditions with equanimity Ineed to be certain i have flexibility in journey changes. Sadly ectric cars are therefore out for me.

Returning to the topic of this thread I find an all up weight of 350kgs pretty light for a three wheeler. How this has been achieved with an electric car I have no idea as electic cars tend to be heavy IME. Whatever method has been used it should be possible to use a lightweight all alloy m/c engine and drivetrain and significantly improve on the actual weight of that car. It would be interesting to compare the two. I would expect the petrol vehicle to be quicker (although electric cars can shift, for sort distances) have excellent fuel consumption, probably in excess of 70 mpg driven sensibly and a range of several hundred miles. That is why I am still very much a petrol head.