Brexit benefit to kit cars?
Discussion
Gemaeden said:
Do you know what the rules are for electric cars. I mean does zero emissions equal zero tax, and how is the hp rated? Also are there similar rules for motor bikes and trikes?
The EU has effectively put a stop to electric kit cars as test fees are now enormous. The DVSA state that all EV's (class M1) submitted for IVA are now covered under class N1 (commercial vehicles).
In order to meet EU regs we have to submit the vehicles for laboratory testing at Mira or Millbrook. N1 contains nothing specific relating to cars. Tests have to be overseen by officials from the VCA. Costs are about £6000 assuming the car is submitted in a spec that is accepted, I didn't manage to get an acceptable spec.
Logic of course tells us that we cannot have cars going around that may catch fire or electrocute someone but even if a vehicle was built to the standards required (what ever they are) then it would still cost a few K before being allowed the privileged of being registered for an IVA test.
If we all voted OUT I guess nothing would change and the rules would remain in force.
One thing is for sure, rules are changing and getting tighter. Ask VOSA/DVSA why and the answer contains 2 letters, E and U.
MEV KIT CARS said:
The EU has effectively put a stop to electric kit cars as test fees are now enormous.
The DVSA state that all EV's (class M1) submitted for IVA are now covered under class N1 (commercial vehicles).
In order to meet EU regs we have to submit the vehicles for laboratory testing at Mira or Millbrook. N1 contains nothing specific relating to cars. Tests have to be overseen by officials from the VCA. Costs are about £6000 assuming the car is submitted in a spec that is accepted, I didn't manage to get an acceptable spec.
Logic of course tells us that we cannot have cars going around that may catch fire or electrocute someone but even if a vehicle was built to the standards required (what ever they are) then it would still cost a few K before being allowed the privileged of being registered for an IVA test.
If we all voted OUT I guess nothing would change and the rules would remain in force.
One thing is for sure, rules are changing and getting tighter. Ask VOSA/DVSA why and the answer contains 2 letters, E and U.
Does that also apply to amateur built? (as well as pros like yourself) - I understand someone is currently converting a Quantum to electric?The DVSA state that all EV's (class M1) submitted for IVA are now covered under class N1 (commercial vehicles).
In order to meet EU regs we have to submit the vehicles for laboratory testing at Mira or Millbrook. N1 contains nothing specific relating to cars. Tests have to be overseen by officials from the VCA. Costs are about £6000 assuming the car is submitted in a spec that is accepted, I didn't manage to get an acceptable spec.
Logic of course tells us that we cannot have cars going around that may catch fire or electrocute someone but even if a vehicle was built to the standards required (what ever they are) then it would still cost a few K before being allowed the privileged of being registered for an IVA test.
If we all voted OUT I guess nothing would change and the rules would remain in force.
One thing is for sure, rules are changing and getting tighter. Ask VOSA/DVSA why and the answer contains 2 letters, E and U.
A mostly interesting thread. On the tow bar issue, I once had a Rickman Ranger, every Ranger chassis had a mounting point for a tow ballon the rear-most chassis member, therefore no tow bar was required & type approved tow balls are easy enough to find, so where does the law stand there? The chassis is approved by IVA, the tow ball is type approved - therefore no problem?
With regards the quality of MEV kits, there have been some needlessly unpleasant remarks made, with regard to the front suspension shown - granted it's not good practice & I'd argue that it should've been picked up by SVA / IVA, but as Stuart said with the weight of the vehicle concerned it is no more likely to fail than a poor weld (I know many owners of Tiger cars).
Personally I've always thought MEVs were well engineered, but as with all things, "BUYER BEWARE" I took responsibility for the car I built & recommend others do the same - that's why it's called INDIVIDUAL vehicle approval, THE IVA test is testing you as the builder, not the kit manufacturer. it makes no difference if the submitted car is a home designed one off, a "snap-together" Caterham, or a hot rod, the vehicle is inspected as presented by the builder.
On the issue of Europe, IVA is "safety" legislation, any scaling back would be seen as a reduction in road safety requirement & in or out of Europe it ain't gonna happen.
With regards the quality of MEV kits, there have been some needlessly unpleasant remarks made, with regard to the front suspension shown - granted it's not good practice & I'd argue that it should've been picked up by SVA / IVA, but as Stuart said with the weight of the vehicle concerned it is no more likely to fail than a poor weld (I know many owners of Tiger cars).
Personally I've always thought MEVs were well engineered, but as with all things, "BUYER BEWARE" I took responsibility for the car I built & recommend others do the same - that's why it's called INDIVIDUAL vehicle approval, THE IVA test is testing you as the builder, not the kit manufacturer. it makes no difference if the submitted car is a home designed one off, a "snap-together" Caterham, or a hot rod, the vehicle is inspected as presented by the builder.
On the issue of Europe, IVA is "safety" legislation, any scaling back would be seen as a reduction in road safety requirement & in or out of Europe it ain't gonna happen.
Fury1630 said:
A mostly interesting thread. On the tow bar issue, I once had a Rickman Ranger, every Ranger chassis had a mounting point for a tow ballon the rear-most chassis member, therefore no tow bar was required & type approved tow balls are easy enough to find, so where does the law stand there? The chassis is approved by IVA, the tow ball is type approved - therefore no problem?
<snip>
were they still making them when the Current type approval regime for towbars came in ?<snip>
Fury1630 said:
mph1977 said:
were they still making them when the Current type approval regime for towbars came in ?
No, but it was the "no tow bar required" concept that interested me.Without a doubt the construction of electric kit cars currently would seem to be uneconomic. I am still finishing a number of kit cars which I have acquired over the years. My fault for taking too much on, but the end is coming, thankfully.
To my mind the whole question of how to successfully approach kit building nowadays requires some consideration. The days of hoping to easily register incorrectly registered and outdated incomplete kit cars has long gone I think. Caveat Emptor has never been a better safeguard IMO. Still a lot of fun to be had: but Caveat Emptor must be adopted.
Fastpedeller said:
MEV KIT CARS said:
The EU has effectively put a stop to electric kit cars as test fees are now enormous.
The DVSA state that all EV's (class M1) submitted for IVA are now covered under class N1 (commercial vehicles).
In order to meet EU regs we have to submit the vehicles for laboratory testing at Mira or Millbrook. N1 contains nothing specific relating to cars. Tests have to be overseen by officials from the VCA. Costs are about £6000 assuming the car is submitted in a spec that is accepted, I didn't manage to get an acceptable spec.
Logic of course tells us that we cannot have cars going around that may catch fire or electrocute someone but even if a vehicle was built to the standards required (what ever they are) then it would still cost a few K before being allowed the privileged of being registered for an IVA test.
If we all voted OUT I guess nothing would change and the rules would remain in force.
One thing is for sure, rules are changing and getting tighter. Ask VOSA/DVSA why and the answer contains 2 letters, E and U.
Does that also apply to amateur built? (as well as pros like yourself) - I understand someone is currently converting a Quantum to electric?The DVSA state that all EV's (class M1) submitted for IVA are now covered under class N1 (commercial vehicles).
In order to meet EU regs we have to submit the vehicles for laboratory testing at Mira or Millbrook. N1 contains nothing specific relating to cars. Tests have to be overseen by officials from the VCA. Costs are about £6000 assuming the car is submitted in a spec that is accepted, I didn't manage to get an acceptable spec.
Logic of course tells us that we cannot have cars going around that may catch fire or electrocute someone but even if a vehicle was built to the standards required (what ever they are) then it would still cost a few K before being allowed the privileged of being registered for an IVA test.
If we all voted OUT I guess nothing would change and the rules would remain in force.
One thing is for sure, rules are changing and getting tighter. Ask VOSA/DVSA why and the answer contains 2 letters, E and U.
If the Quantum is already registered then the converter may get away with it but he will need to change the fuel type on the V5 to get free road tax and at that point they could ask for an IVA. But you cannot apply for an IVA without a laboratory test report from an approved firm that is overseen by VCA officials to be to a standard which we are kept in the dark about.
The TUV standards for EV's are available, I assume we need to meet those. Either way EV kit cars are history thanks to the EU for introducing ECE R100. Unless the builder has very deep pockets which rather negates the point of saving money on fuel.
Stuart Mills said:
<snip>
The TUV standards for EV's are available, I assume we need to meet those. Either way EV kit cars are history thanks to the EU for introducing ECE R100. Unless the builder has very deep pockets which rather negates the point of saving money on fuel.
so the European Union now runs the automative harmonisation dept of the United Nationals Economic Commisions does it ?The TUV standards for EV's are available, I assume we need to meet those. Either way EV kit cars are history thanks to the EU for introducing ECE R100. Unless the builder has very deep pockets which rather negates the point of saving money on fuel.
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