Is There a Market for a Mid-Engine Coupe Kit?
Poll: Is There a Market for a Mid-Engine Coupe Kit?
Total Members Polled: 36
Discussion
Equus said:
rdodger said:
...It's available with the same chassis as a track car with fly screen, convertible with full screen & doors and a proper Coupe.
http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/
Any idea how that works with the doors?http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/
The only chassis image they have on their website seems to have rather a lot of tubes in the way:
http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-08/mid...
rdodger said:
Equus said:
rdodger said:
...It's available with the same chassis as a track car with fly screen, convertible with full screen & doors and a proper Coupe.
http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/
Any idea how that works with the doors?http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/
The only chassis image they have on their website seems to have rather a lot of tubes in the way:
http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/EP2016-08/mid...
http://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/8...
rdodger said:
The gallery has pictures of the chassis for doors.
http://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/8...
http://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/8...
So not the same chassis, then? Cockpit bay is different?rdodger said:
Stuart. That is pretty much what Factory Five in the USA have done with their 818. It's available with the same chassis as a track car with fly screen, convertible with full screen & doors and a proper Coupe.
http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/
I think the Coupe version is really good looking. The single donor car being Subaru Impreza is cheap, readily available and makes good power. Inline engine transaxle with 4wd blanked off.
If it was available in the UK with a few tweaks to pass IVA...... Have you considered being an agent or importer?
http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/
I think the Coupe version is really good looking. The single donor car being Subaru Impreza is cheap, readily available and makes good power. Inline engine transaxle with 4wd blanked off.
If it was available in the UK with a few tweaks to pass IVA...... Have you considered being an agent or importer?
I agree, it is good looking, and if it looks good it could command a higher price tag but does not necessarily cost more to produce. "value packaging" often refers to size, i.e a box of Cornflakes that is only half full when opened. You can't buy a small Coke at Maccies, they start with regular. "Super size me" suggests a huge meal but still only comprises of an envelope size chip quantity.
So is a small kit coupe worth less than a bigger brother? Smart Roadster v it's big brother an SL500. Do we need a coupe that is not directly and automatically compared to main stream cars? Can we come up with unique, desirable, cost effective and sustainable? A tough call but possible.
I always liked the look of this, a bit like a mid engined Mini Marcos.
I can only think of the Smart Roadster as a comparable mainstream car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8XX3Ee1x84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o6A-jHbd0U
I can only think of the Smart Roadster as a comparable mainstream car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8XX3Ee1x84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o6A-jHbd0U
Edited by browse on Saturday 7th May 15:06
No mention yet as the dax kamala (cosworth power therefore in its day not a cheap kit) or the cc cyclone (Vauxhall calibra/cavalier there for turbo let engines provided good performance.
Raffo belva is a great looking little car shame more were not made.
Ginetta g12 has to be the best small mid engine car around (unless you include the Ferrari Dino 246).
The new owners of syvla are working on a gt version of the j15, worth keeping an eye out for that, based on post on their face book page.
Raffo belva is a great looking little car shame more were not made.
Ginetta g12 has to be the best small mid engine car around (unless you include the Ferrari Dino 246).
The new owners of syvla are working on a gt version of the j15, worth keeping an eye out for that, based on post on their face book page.
Edited by ugg10 on Saturday 7th May 16:29
Edited by ugg10 on Saturday 7th May 16:34
To answer the OP
If it looks like Italo's Abarth concept, then yes, there is a market for one.
However if it looks like those three above then there certainly isn't.
I think there is a market for an antidote to modern cars. Something which is small, light and agile, not stuffed full of tat and gadgets that beep at you. A simple (like a Caterham) interior is all that is needed. The only luxury a coupe or 2+2 needs is doors and opening windows.
If it looks like Italo's Abarth concept, then yes, there is a market for one.
However if it looks like those three above then there certainly isn't.
I think there is a market for an antidote to modern cars. Something which is small, light and agile, not stuffed full of tat and gadgets that beep at you. A simple (like a Caterham) interior is all that is needed. The only luxury a coupe or 2+2 needs is doors and opening windows.
cymtriks said:
A simple (like a Caterham) interior is all that is needed. The only luxury a coupe or 2+2 needs is doors and opening windows.
Have you ever been in a small, sparsely trimmed coupe? Or even a Caterham with the hood up, for that matter?Without decent heating/ventilation systems and soundproofing, they're insufferable! Dreadfully noisy; stuffy in summer and mist up in winter.
The minimum standard I would (and have) found tolerable for everyday use is that of something like the Lotus Elan or Midas Coupe.
browse said:
I always liked the look of this, a bit like a mid engined Mini Marcos.
I can only think of the Smart Roadster as a comparable mainstream car.
I quite like the look of that one. Small is good and quirky, although an acquired taste, could also secure some sales. I wouldn't want a 'big' car purporting to be a supercar a la Ultima, which is a great project, which I'd love.I can only think of the Smart Roadster as a comparable mainstream car.
cymtriks said:
To answer the OP
If it looks like Italo's Abarth concept, then yes, there is a market for one.
However if it looks like those three above then there certainly isn't.
I think there is a market for an antidote to modern cars. Something which is small, light and agile, not stuffed full of tat and gadgets that beep at you. A simple (like a Caterham) interior is all that is needed. The only luxury a coupe or 2+2 needs is doors and opening windows.
If it looks like Italo's Abarth concept, then yes, there is a market for one.
However if it looks like those three above then there certainly isn't.
I think there is a market for an antidote to modern cars. Something which is small, light and agile, not stuffed full of tat and gadgets that beep at you. A simple (like a Caterham) interior is all that is needed. The only luxury a coupe or 2+2 needs is doors and opening windows.
Equus said:
Have you ever been in a small, sparsely trimmed coupe? Or even a Caterham with the hood up, for that matter?
Without decent heating/ventilation systems and soundproofing, they're insufferable! Dreadfully noisy; stuffy in summer and mist up in winter.
The minimum standard I would (and have) found tolerable for everyday use is that of something like the Lotus Elan or Midas Coupe.
I'm with Equus on this one - it needs to be liveable. Something you're happy to drive everyday, come rain or shine, motorway or B-road.Without decent heating/ventilation systems and soundproofing, they're insufferable! Dreadfully noisy; stuffy in summer and mist up in winter.
The minimum standard I would (and have) found tolerable for everyday use is that of something like the Lotus Elan or Midas Coupe.
If you could make it small (like the one above or the Midas-type suggestion) then actually having some carpets may make it more appealing than say an Elise.
I still wonder of a modern, torque-y bike engine with the Quaife gearbox including built-in reverse could be a good solution for a USP and perhaps keep weight down around the 750kg mark, which I think would be another good selling point.
It looks like 18/23 are interested, so far, which perhaps seems a little 'better' than I expected.
Edited by dom9 on Tuesday 10th May 11:22
if it looks nice, it'll sell.
look at that Tomcat thread. engineering and skills all appear to be there... ambition there... but the car looked... odd. That's why no interest. it wouldnt take much to rectify it, butas it stood it looked odd.
Like a Puma and a Racing puma. Puma is nice to drive and all that, but a bit iffy looking. the racing puma is nice to drive and looks smashing. well judged proportions of the arches. muscular. same with a Ferrari 348 and a 355.
So any mid engine kit car has to look great, or it'll flop. if its nice to drive too, all the better...
look at that Tomcat thread. engineering and skills all appear to be there... ambition there... but the car looked... odd. That's why no interest. it wouldnt take much to rectify it, butas it stood it looked odd.
Like a Puma and a Racing puma. Puma is nice to drive and all that, but a bit iffy looking. the racing puma is nice to drive and looks smashing. well judged proportions of the arches. muscular. same with a Ferrari 348 and a 355.
So any mid engine kit car has to look great, or it'll flop. if its nice to drive too, all the better...
RedAndy said:
if it looks nice, it'll sell.
look at that Tomcat thread. engineering and skills all appear to be there... ambition there... but the car looked... odd. That's why no interest. it wouldnt take much to rectify it, butas it stood it looked odd.
Like a Puma and a Racing puma. Puma is nice to drive and all that, but a bit iffy looking. the racing puma is nice to drive and looks smashing. well judged proportions of the arches. muscular. same with a Ferrari 348 and a 355.
So any mid engine kit car has to look great, or it'll flop. if its nice to drive too, all the better...
I'd forgotten about Tomcat... A few tweaks and that could be lovely!look at that Tomcat thread. engineering and skills all appear to be there... ambition there... but the car looked... odd. That's why no interest. it wouldnt take much to rectify it, butas it stood it looked odd.
Like a Puma and a Racing puma. Puma is nice to drive and all that, but a bit iffy looking. the racing puma is nice to drive and looks smashing. well judged proportions of the arches. muscular. same with a Ferrari 348 and a 355.
So any mid engine kit car has to look great, or it'll flop. if its nice to drive too, all the better...
Seem to remember it wasn't cheap, either and being abroad will have been enough to put some off.
A British Tomcat could sell... I'd definitely take a look!
RedAndy said:
if it looks nice, it'll sell.
look at that Tomcat thread. engineering and skills all appear to be there... ambition there... but the car looked... odd. That's why no interest. it wouldnt take much to rectify it, but as it stood it looked odd.
I'd like to agree, but there is a long list of successful cars - from the Lotus 6 (arguably - back when it was launched there was still a very definite 'rule' that cars with separate front wings should have their radiator set behind the axle line), via the Mini Marcos, through to the Robin Hood and the MEV Exocet that have been severely beaten with the ugly stick yet still manage to sell in reasonable numbers.look at that Tomcat thread. engineering and skills all appear to be there... ambition there... but the car looked... odd. That's why no interest. it wouldnt take much to rectify it, but as it stood it looked odd.
Whilst cars like the Phantom/Vortex pictured on page 2 look perfectly well resolved, but fail commercially,
Which tends to suggest that either performance ability or plain affordability can also be very major - and possibly over-riding - factors?
Never really liked the look of the Kamala.
Always had a hint of
to me.
The Cyclone was a real loss to the industry. Not a great looker (but then, neither is a Seven!) but looked purposeful. An update of this concept could work, if the costs could be kept down to Sevenish levels, although it's not strictly a coupe. OK, it wouldn't have aircon, but heating and ventilation wouldn't be too difficult and heated screens front and rear would keep things clear. USP? A middy Seven competitor with a little more weather protection, or a budget Elise competitor (aircon is an optional extra on the base model!) - reasonable either way IMHO.
The cost would be the key to the project, though. If it could be kept down to around £10k on the road, people would (I believe) put up with the lack of creature comforts - that could even be considered a feature - it would definitely be worth keeping the removable roof, though.
So I reckon something like this could work, but doesn't really fit the OP's concept!
I'd still go for a Stratos, though!!
Always had a hint of
to me.
The Cyclone was a real loss to the industry. Not a great looker (but then, neither is a Seven!) but looked purposeful. An update of this concept could work, if the costs could be kept down to Sevenish levels, although it's not strictly a coupe. OK, it wouldn't have aircon, but heating and ventilation wouldn't be too difficult and heated screens front and rear would keep things clear. USP? A middy Seven competitor with a little more weather protection, or a budget Elise competitor (aircon is an optional extra on the base model!) - reasonable either way IMHO.
The cost would be the key to the project, though. If it could be kept down to around £10k on the road, people would (I believe) put up with the lack of creature comforts - that could even be considered a feature - it would definitely be worth keeping the removable roof, though.
So I reckon something like this could work, but doesn't really fit the OP's concept!
I'd still go for a Stratos, though!!
jas xjr said:
how about a rebody / panel kit for an mr2 ? sorry if it has already been mentioned
Absolutely and I love the RS200 panel kit but it's still an 'old' chassis underneath - I want something brand new, I build myself, with perhaps some more focus.The Stratos is an interesting one. It's an expensive kit to build (but arguably value for money as they do well 2nd hand), which rules out many, I suspect.
Could one of the current Stratos producers be persuaded to do a modern update/ interpretation? I guess that would only increase the price.
However, the current Stratos replicas seem to be highly detailed and use some quite bespoke parts - cost savings could be made.
Anotehr couple to add to the list -
the semi-still born Gregori GPR - not bad looking uses a Mk3 Escort drive train mid/rear
and not sure if this has been mentioned the GTM Rossa - Metro bit in the mid/rear -
I'm with frankherd on this - if it could be done for under £10k on the road with decent styling (all in the eye of the buyer), I guess the cheapest and probably most successful would be a fibreglass sandwich centre tub with tubular subframes front and rear that way mechanics are kept simple (double wish bones all round and stock bits, MR2?) and the door shuts etc. can be controlled to give a water tight finish with integrated dash mouldings etc. The alternative is something like the Sylva Vectis that uses the front and rear subframes in tact (from an MGF) bolted onto a steel spaceframe with a GRP body cloaking it (MEV Replicar does the same with the MX5). More scope for getting the doors etc. to fit badly but may be more efficient.
the semi-still born Gregori GPR - not bad looking uses a Mk3 Escort drive train mid/rear
and not sure if this has been mentioned the GTM Rossa - Metro bit in the mid/rear -
I'm with frankherd on this - if it could be done for under £10k on the road with decent styling (all in the eye of the buyer), I guess the cheapest and probably most successful would be a fibreglass sandwich centre tub with tubular subframes front and rear that way mechanics are kept simple (double wish bones all round and stock bits, MR2?) and the door shuts etc. can be controlled to give a water tight finish with integrated dash mouldings etc. The alternative is something like the Sylva Vectis that uses the front and rear subframes in tact (from an MGF) bolted onto a steel spaceframe with a GRP body cloaking it (MEV Replicar does the same with the MX5). More scope for getting the doors etc. to fit badly but may be more efficient.
Yes but the price has to be right and for anything that isn't just a rebody the costs mount up spectacularly.
Personally if I was doing it I would design one round an 2wd Audi donor (eg A4) and use as much as possible keeping extras to a minimum.
That gives you a massive range of FWD engines from petrol to diseasal, inline-4's to v8's with a matching transaxle which can easily be migrated to a Mid-RWD setup along with an existing rear suspension setup that is already ready (with a few parts swapped) for being "driven" due to the AWD versions of the same model.
Do it right and you keep enough parts to keep the registration year so avoiding a Q as well.
Personally if I was doing it I would design one round an 2wd Audi donor (eg A4) and use as much as possible keeping extras to a minimum.
That gives you a massive range of FWD engines from petrol to diseasal, inline-4's to v8's with a matching transaxle which can easily be migrated to a Mid-RWD setup along with an existing rear suspension setup that is already ready (with a few parts swapped) for being "driven" due to the AWD versions of the same model.
Do it right and you keep enough parts to keep the registration year so avoiding a Q as well.
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