Is There a Market for a Mid-Engine Coupe Kit?

[Equus]

andygtt said:

My Ultima was a canam, the cloth roof was effective...

But that is one of the major issues with coupes. Leaks, creaks and squeaks are both less tolerated on a coupe and more difficult to eradicate (especially on tricksy gull- and beetle-wing door arrangements that cut into the roof and so force the seals to negotiate 3-dimensional corners).

It might be telling that even Lotus abandoned their gullwing hardtop for the S2 Elise, because they couldn't get it to seal effectively - and that was a fairly simple example in sealing terms.

And of course rear 3/4 visibility isn't an issue on the Canam, unless you put a wing in the way!

These are all amongst the very good reasons that the kit market tends to stick to roofless (and preferably doorless and windscreenless) designs, wherever possible: development time, costs and customer dissatisfaction spiral as you add complexity to the bodyshell.

[Frankthered]

Just a few more observations. As was said earlier in the thread, any coupe would need a USP. The Ultima's USP is that it is a very fast and capable car. Does that Ultima still hold the "unofficial" Top Gear track record?

It's also comparable in price to the more expensive "replicas" which seem to still find a market.

Another car that threatened to succeed was the Murtaya, they managed to sell quite a few, but it dried up pretty quickly and has faded away, despite (IMHO) being a very competent product. Ultimately, it was the wrong price.

Of the other concepts that have been discussed, it's difficult to see them working in today's market. I still reckon the Cyclone concept would be the closest - do we really think a £10k build was unrealistic 20 years ago?? I'm not too familiar with the cars, but it always looked like a basic interior would work on the car.

An update of the original GTM would be interesting, just to see what price they could do it for. As others have intimated, GRP is relatively more expensive now, so GRP monocoques are out, but the original GTM was a steel monocoque with unstressed GRP bodywork, so it might be a bit cheaper. Doubt it would be cheap enough though.

[fuoriserie]

An old thread on the idea of designing a lowcost mid-engine kitcar in 2007....and things haven't changed much in 2016 !


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Equus]

Frankthered said:

Another car that threatened to succeed was the Murtaya...

...I still reckon the Cyclone concept would be the closest...

Point of order, but neither the Cyclone or the Murtaya (or the Minari that it was developed from) were coupes. They were roadsters with optional hardtops/targa panels.

[Frankthered]

Equus said:

Frankthered said:

Another car that threatened to succeed was the Murtaya...

...I still reckon the Cyclone concept would be the closest...

Point of order, but neither the Cyclone or the Murtaya (or the Minari that it was developed from) were coupes. They were roadsters with optional hardtops/targa panels.

Very true; and I acknowledged as much with respect to the Cyclone when I mentioned it earlier in the thread. IIRC, the "original" Murtaya crew got as far as producing a prototype coupe. Whether this was anything more innovative that the hardtop being bonded in place permanently, I don't recall. Of course, neither the Murtaya nor the Minari were mid-engined either, but they would fall into the same budget range of the mythical car we are discussing.

[jamesG20V6]

Equus said:

Point of order, but neither the Cyclone or the Murtaya (or the Minari that it was developed from) were coupes. They were roadsters with optional hardtops/targa panels.

But then neither is the Elise, that we are benchmarking this hypothetical car against.

[Equus]

Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned, there?

A roadster with an optional hardtop gives you a much wider market?

[PisstNBroke]

Tbh the kitcar market is though and to introduce an unknown manufacture would be risky and costly. There's been a few mid engined cars, Ginetta G32, MeV Rocket, Shelsey T2 also that Honda based K1 attack that seems to raise its head every now and again.
Personally I only see business opportunities in restoring or converting.

[fuoriserie]

Not a kitcar, but a modern mid-engine sportscar....that could become a kit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-_Nez-gVXM

[Equus]

fuoriserie said:

Not a kitcar,

Not a coupe, either.

[Frankthered]

PisstNBroke said:

Tbh the kitcar market is though and to introduce an unknown manufacture would be risky and costly. There's been a few mid engined cars, Ginetta G32, MeV Rocket, Shelsey T2 also that Honda based K1 attack that seems to raise its head every now and again.
Personally I only see business opportunities in restoring or converting.

The G32 was never offered as a kit - they were all factory produced.

Not sure why the Rocket isn't produced any more - I could see that finding a market, as I could the Sonic 7 which Mr Mills has intimated may be relaunched soon.

Perhaps the Sonic 7 with the full screen and gull-wing hardtop will be as close as we get to a kit coupe (for now, anyway), although it's obviously not a coupe.. Perhaps Equus has a point, people are more willing to accept a few shortcomings in terms of refinement in a convertible that they are in a coupe?

[AW111]

Open cars are louder to drive - rattles, squeaks an drumming that would annoy you in a closed car just blend into the general ambient noise.

[greenamex2]

I built a Mid-Engined Coupe kit car about 15 years ago. It cost £15K and around 2 years to build using all new/recon parts.

I used it for around 27K miles driving around the M25 everyday plus a trip to Disneyland Paris and some track days.

Once the teething troubles were sorted out it was an awesome and totally practical car. Could fit a weeks shopping in the boot and destroy most road cars on track days.


To date I don't think there are more than 5 or 6 on the road.


Why so few? There isn't a very market for a 850Kg 2 litre practical mid engined coupe kit car.


I also owned an Exige S2 for a couple of years that I also commuted round the M25 for a year so am in an excellent position to compare.


Unless you specifically want to build a car yourself, your always going to buy a Boxster/Elise/Exige etc instead. It is so much easier and probably cheaper all round.


And if you want to build a car yourself, you will probably be looking at something like an Ultima/GT40 etc (so very fast, big engine etc). And the number of people willing to spend £40-80K is going to be pretty limited and I suspect that market is probably already pretty saturated.


For info the car concerned was one of these -

http://www.amsportscars.co.uk/Davey_Automotive_Eng...


And it has slowly turned into something much more 'Ultima' like.

[dom9]

Pics of yours please! Sounds like an interesting car!

[greenamex2]

dom9 said:

Pics of yours please! Sounds like an interesting car!

[ugg10]

To answer the thread title question -

The new owner of Sylva Sportscars seems to think so -

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2262260544...

Looks like he is planning to put a hard top on the J15/Vectis. Styling wise looks like it is going to be Ginetta G12 inspired which IMO is no bad thing. Would go really well with the ecoboost 1.6 with a bit of an engine tweak to around 250HP or if you like your NA a Honda K20.

[dom9]

Can you cross-post some pics?

I don't have an FB account and that link doesn't seem to work in the office

thanks