Discussion
After reading the thread asking about the viability of mid engined coupés....
Is there a market for a Golf/Jetta based Elise S1 look-a-like if it was cheap enough?
You don't see the elise around as much and there are cheap golf GTIs around. Would price point make it viable, or is it just too Lotus looking?
Is there a market for a Golf/Jetta based Elise S1 look-a-like if it was cheap enough?
You don't see the elise around as much and there are cheap golf GTIs around. Would price point make it viable, or is it just too Lotus looking?
The moulds have been for sale for ages, i have spoken to the guys a couple of times now. I keep mulling it over but I have concerns.
1. It looks like a Elise, the newer Elise was everywhere at one point but i don't seen them around very often these days, so maybe it now looks different enough to be viable.
2. A used Elise can be got for around £10k.
3. The kit market is a fraction of the size that it was when GTM was looking at this, with a used Elise available for about £10k why would you build one probably for more money.
I like the car, always did, but did not see the crappy one that was shown by "gtm" after it was bought out. I'm just not sure that it is viable.
There are many negative comments on the PH forums, i'm leaning on the side of "leave it alone" but wheres the fun in that.
1. It looks like a Elise, the newer Elise was everywhere at one point but i don't seen them around very often these days, so maybe it now looks different enough to be viable.
2. A used Elise can be got for around £10k.
3. The kit market is a fraction of the size that it was when GTM was looking at this, with a used Elise available for about £10k why would you build one probably for more money.
I like the car, always did, but did not see the crappy one that was shown by "gtm" after it was bought out. I'm just not sure that it is viable.
There are many negative comments on the PH forums, i'm leaning on the side of "leave it alone" but wheres the fun in that.
I think most of the negative comments were around the fact it was badly put together and a mock up rather than a car. I seem to remember it was an old car tarted up and put on show with big claims about carbon body work etc.
If it can be cheaper than an Elise, more practical than an Elise and at least as fast as an Elise then I think a few will sell if it has decent fit and finish. I would think in the 10's rather than the 100's the Libra/Spyder sold in.
The other negative may be people perception of using old bits of Golf. That wasn't popular 10 years ago when RDM/GTM had it.
If it can be cheaper than an Elise, more practical than an Elise and at least as fast as an Elise then I think a few will sell if it has decent fit and finish. I would think in the 10's rather than the 100's the Libra/Spyder sold in.
The other negative may be people perception of using old bits of Golf. That wasn't popular 10 years ago when RDM/GTM had it.
The original concept was good, but at the time the method of building was expensive. The big issue was what is out there to compare?
It is a practical car, but look at MX5 MR2 MGTF and they are practical, reliable and well built so how many would choose a ready built car over a more expensive one to build?
That is why Westfield ditched the GTM Libra. To make it work it needed a cheaper build price. Their last one with Honda power was well over £30k well into Boxster range.
It is sad but the reality is it will not sell
It is a practical car, but look at MX5 MR2 MGTF and they are practical, reliable and well built so how many would choose a ready built car over a more expensive one to build?
That is why Westfield ditched the GTM Libra. To make it work it needed a cheaper build price. Their last one with Honda power was well over £30k well into Boxster range.
It is sad but the reality is it will not sell
spaximus said:
The original concept was good, but at the time the method of building was expensive. The big issue was what is out there to compare?
It is a practical car, but look at MX5 MR2 MGTF and they are practical, reliable and well built so how many would choose a ready built car over a more expensive one to build?
That is why Westfield ditched the GTM Libra. To make it work it needed a cheaper build price. Their last one with Honda power was well over £30k well into Boxster range.
It is sad but the reality is it will not sell
30K??? Don't think any Libra ever came close to that, are you referring to the 40TR? It is a practical car, but look at MX5 MR2 MGTF and they are practical, reliable and well built so how many would choose a ready built car over a more expensive one to build?
That is why Westfield ditched the GTM Libra. To make it work it needed a cheaper build price. Their last one with Honda power was well over £30k well into Boxster range.
It is sad but the reality is it will not sell
Yazza54 said:
30K??? Don't think any Libra ever came close to that, are you referring to the 40TR?
No that was the build cost of Westfield's last demonstrator with Honda power. I was speaking with Simon the sales director at the time, as another problem was getting IIRC a left hand driver Metro rack amongst other parts.They were looking at converting to a steel chassis using parts from the rest of the Westfield range but it went no further
I can imagine Bertrums was up there but most other people stuck to the cocktail of parts that came from GTM. I know too well how these things can spiral out of control though. Was the 30k demo car a K20A Honda? I remember they had a blue one as a demo once not sure if that's it. The only other Honda cars I know of are the yellow B18C one which I think was supposed to go to Japan but didn't, Colin's which was Paul drawers car that he converted and mine.
Yazza54 said:
I can imagine Bertrums was up there but most other people stuck to the cocktail of parts that came from GTM. I know too well how these things can spiral out of control though. Was the 30k demo car a K20A Honda? I remember they had a blue one as a demo once not sure if that's it. The only other Honda cars I know of are the yellow B18C one which I think was supposed to go to Japan but didn't, Colin's which was Paul drawers car that he converted and mine.
Yes it was a K20A engine one. I don't know what happened to that one. I loved the GTM and would probably buy one now but the issue for me is when you are talking say £10k for an Elise, why would you spend £7 on a car to build yourself, unless it was the challenge?Again speaking with a couple at Stoneleigh, they were lamenting that some people get carried away on their first build and spend £25k on a Westfield. They enjoy the experience, but then sell it for £16k. Wife then see's a big loss so the next one he wants to build is a big fat no.
When Kitcars first came out they were a cheap fun project. Now they have evolved where £20K upwards is not unusual. Even something like a GBS zero is £10k plus by the time you have finished.
I know we are all different but if you spend £6k on an MX5 you get comfort, reliability, safety. Spend the same on a kit car do you get the same
spaximus said:
Yazza54 said:
I can imagine Bertrums was up there but most other people stuck to the cocktail of parts that came from GTM. I know too well how these things can spiral out of control though. Was the 30k demo car a K20A Honda? I remember they had a blue one as a demo once not sure if that's it. The only other Honda cars I know of are the yellow B18C one which I think was supposed to go to Japan but didn't, Colin's which was Paul drawers car that he converted and mine.
Yes it was a K20A engine one. I don't know what happened to that one. I loved the GTM and would probably buy one now but the issue for me is when you are talking say £10k for an Elise, why would you spend £7 on a car to build yourself, unless it was the challenge?Again speaking with a couple at Stoneleigh, they were lamenting that some people get carried away on their first build and spend £25k on a Westfield. They enjoy the experience, but then sell it for £16k. Wife then see's a big loss so the next one he wants to build is a big fat no.
When Kitcars first came out they were a cheap fun project. Now they have evolved where £20K upwards is not unusual. Even something like a GBS zero is £10k plus by the time you have finished.
I know we are all different but if you spend £6k on an MX5 you get comfort, reliability, safety. Spend the same on a kit car do you get the same
You still do get a few kitcar manufactures that still offer inexpensive kitcars( see MEV), but most have moved up-market on prices....and down on sales.
With reference to the Ballista....I would let it go...
spaximus said:
Yes it was a K20A engine one. I don't know what happened to that one. I loved the GTM and would probably buy one now but the issue for me is when you are talking say £10k for an Elise, why would you spend £7 on a car to build yourself, unless it was the challenge?
Again speaking with a couple at Stoneleigh, they were lamenting that some people get carried away on their first build and spend £25k on a Westfield. They enjoy the experience, but then sell it for £16k. Wife then see's a big loss so the next one he wants to build is a big fat no.
When Kitcars first came out they were a cheap fun project. Now they have evolved where £20K upwards is not unusual. Even something like a GBS zero is £10k plus by the time you have finished.
I know we are all different but if you spend £6k on an MX5 you get comfort, reliability, safety. Spend the same on a kit car do you get the same
Depends which kit car you compare, I would argue something like a libra or phantom vortex is every bit as practical and reliable if built right. But putting that aside, does an MX5 compare in terms of exclusivity or performance? I'd say no.Again speaking with a couple at Stoneleigh, they were lamenting that some people get carried away on their first build and spend £25k on a Westfield. They enjoy the experience, but then sell it for £16k. Wife then see's a big loss so the next one he wants to build is a big fat no.
When Kitcars first came out they were a cheap fun project. Now they have evolved where £20K upwards is not unusual. Even something like a GBS zero is £10k plus by the time you have finished.
I know we are all different but if you spend £6k on an MX5 you get comfort, reliability, safety. Spend the same on a kit car do you get the same
Yazza54 said:
spaximus said:
Yes it was a K20A engine one. I don't know what happened to that one. I loved the GTM and would probably buy one now but the issue for me is when you are talking say £10k for an Elise, why would you spend £7 on a car to build yourself, unless it was the challenge?
Again speaking with a couple at Stoneleigh, they were lamenting that some people get carried away on their first build and spend £25k on a Westfield. They enjoy the experience, but then sell it for £16k. Wife then see's a big loss so the next one he wants to build is a big fat no.
When Kitcars first came out they were a cheap fun project. Now they have evolved where £20K upwards is not unusual. Even something like a GBS zero is £10k plus by the time you have finished.
I know we are all different but if you spend £6k on an MX5 you get comfort, reliability, safety. Spend the same on a kit car do you get the same
Depends which kit car you compare, I would argue something like a libra or phantom vortex is every bit as practical and reliable if built right. But putting that aside, does an MX5 compare in terms of exclusivity or performance? I'd say no.Again speaking with a couple at Stoneleigh, they were lamenting that some people get carried away on their first build and spend £25k on a Westfield. They enjoy the experience, but then sell it for £16k. Wife then see's a big loss so the next one he wants to build is a big fat no.
When Kitcars first came out they were a cheap fun project. Now they have evolved where £20K upwards is not unusual. Even something like a GBS zero is £10k plus by the time you have finished.
I know we are all different but if you spend £6k on an MX5 you get comfort, reliability, safety. Spend the same on a kit car do you get the same
I love kit cars but for me the build is part of the process to enjoy, for many the drive is the best bit. The two cars you mentioned are great however for the vortex you are well into young Boxster money how many would buy the vortex when you have to build it to a high standard?
Look at who shifts the most cars now MEV GBS Westfield a price point for most
The grey 2.5 KV6 GTM Libra cost Graham around £35,000. It was a lovely car, but dynamically you could buy an Exige for that then and the Libra was not in the ballpark.
The GTM was a great car but ultimately too expensive to build when at the time Caterhams and Elises were available used for under £10k.
As for reviving the Ballista...... 😂 Just no.
The GTM was a great car but ultimately too expensive to build when at the time Caterhams and Elises were available used for under £10k.
As for reviving the Ballista...... 😂 Just no.
Apologies for the necro...
For sale again (or a body and the moulds at least)…
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BALLISTA-RACE-KIT-CAR-B...
For sale again (or a body and the moulds at least)…
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BALLISTA-RACE-KIT-CAR-B...
Now down to £3,500 - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kit-car-project/3531502...
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