RE: Phantom Vortex GTR

[jitsukadave]

It is stunning, but I was put off by the interior (though this was the maroon red one that I think was the prototype, so it may have changed since). But the interior was nice and spacious, which not many kit cars can boast, other than perhaps the GTMs.

I've liked the Vortex for a long while, but I agree that it is pitched at the wrong market for what it is. If they had the cash to develop it with the Duratech, and sell them as high-spec, very well build turnkey cars, I think they would have a chance of surviving. Either that, or drop the cost of the kit a fair whack and do all the shows.

Unfortunatly, I just can't see either happening; they need one of us to win the lottery and give them some backing!

Edit - just realised that the red one I'm on about is the start of the article

And... studio-g doing the 'G3' version with their own interior & exterior changes. They also do this: www.studio-g.co.uk/G350.broch.e.pdf ... I think it's one of those "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" things though

>> Edited by jitsukadave on Thursday 14th July 09:19

[jitsukadave]

Althalus said:

Look at the quality of the panel joins! Puts the likes of TVR to shame!

[cliveg]

Interesting points about the price (or perhaps cost - I've seen £20k total cost mentioned somewhere but don't know that this is realistic). The kit prices on their website don't seem far out of step with a number of replicas etc.
Marketing was certainly a key factor when I was looking to buy a kit, as the Phantom didn't get on my list through general lack of awareness and difficulty in finding anybody to talk to about it at Stoneleigh or Donnington.

[fuoriserie]

I believe this to be the best mid-engine designed specialist car, and it's a real shame very few are buying it.

Maybe the US. Market could be a possibility, with a Ford or Chevy V8 sourced engine... or move down market and supply the kit with 4 cylinder engines, strip the specs and move abroad to manufacture the kit.

It's the most succesfully designed car in the kit industry, and it's a shame that it's struggling to find buyers.

Saw it at Stoneleigh and was taken by it, maybe an investor should look into this project, just like the Noble/Moy business venture.

Wish Aprisa the best of luck with the car

Italo

[grahambell]

fuoriserie said:

move down market and supply the kit with 4 cylinder engines, strip the specs and move abroad to manufacture the kit. Italo

Hi Italo.

Move downmarket with 4 cylinder engine wouldn't help as overall price would still be around the same and look even more expensive for a 4 cylinder car. Car of this class definitely needs at least 6 cylinders.

Do know that Phantom have looked at moving manufacturing abroad to reduce costs but decided that could produce a new set of problems.

As for US market, I know they're keen and have had a lot of interest from US, but so far all potential US agents have proved to be all talk and no action - or money.

[jpf]

Will it take the Duratec V6 from Ford?

Is it engineered for the Duratec? Saw Honda mentioned, but just wondering...

[grahambell]

jpf said:

Will it take the Duratec V6 from Ford? Is it engineered for the Duratec? Saw Honda mentioned, but just wondering...

They were working on a turn-key Duratec powered version but think they gave up on that idea. Not sure if a Duratec version is available in kit form.

[kenmorton]

Quite sure if you wanted a Duratec version you could have one as a kit. Another sale is another sale at the end of the day and they have already built one.
Will try and get some photos of the progress on mine posted soon.

[NST]

at the docklands motorshow they showed a pic and spec of the car with a duratec V6 unit producing 260bhp.

the planned might have changed!

[jgmadkit]

Althalus said:

Looks stunning

Loved it since I first saw it at Stoneleigh at it's launch. Shame it hasn't done better, deserves it on looks and quality alone. The price is off putting though however good the kit is. Kits like this though need to survive to push the industry forward, quality needs to keep on improving, but at an affordable price.

Here's another taster of this beauty



John

[ozzie dave]

Its no surprise that this is the best original car bar none , its a fresh and timeless design . It deserves to succeed .

Dave Ingerson

Brisbane OZ

[jpf]

GB, when did you do the original review?

Is it worth an updated review with the DURATEC?

Any interior pictures--or is that the part that smacks of kit car?

[grahambell]

jpf said:

GB, when did you do the original review? Is it worth an updated review with the DURATEC? Any interior pictures--or is that the part that smacks of kit car?

Hi jpf.

Checking the article at the bottom of the first page of this thread it's dated 2002.

Phantom don't have a Duratec powered car available for review and are still taking the old cars what few shows they do simply due to the cost.

Original article also had interior shot. All well finished with leather, although they've introduced better steering wheels and a few other updates since then.

[fuoriserie]

Hi Graham

I agree with your point on the 4 cylinder, but if it has to stay with a 6 cylinder why not move to a Bmw six or Jaguar, and you could sell the kit at the current asking price, because of the cachet these engines bring with them, and the possibility to broaden the appeal in mainland Europe( Germany above all, France, Sweden and so on).

Maybe an Alfa Romeo v6 could even be consired just for the snarl...or should I say music!

This specialist car has to succed, it's too good not to

Italo

[grahambell]

Hi Italo,

BMW not practical from packaging viewpoint because it's a straight 6 and therefore long, plus it doesn't come with a gearbox suitable for a mid-engined fit.

Jaguar V6 would be good choice for production car as it's developed from the Duratec and so should fit to Ford's latest 6 speed box as used by Noble.

Alfa V6 would also be good choice but only for kit car. No good for production car because Fiat group are apparently pain in the arse to deal with.

Grinall were originally going to use Fiat turbo engine in Scorpion IV but after being messed around so much they finally got fed up and went to Audi.

What Phantom really need is a rich backer who's prepared to invest heavily and wait years for any return, much like Tony Stelliga with Marcos.

[kenmorton]

These two photos should give an idea of how much space there is for the engine/gearbox.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/kenmorton/SANY0015.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/kenmorton/phantomturbo002.jpg

[ylee coyote]

Its a gorgeous car but let down by a crappy choice of engine imho
V6 alfa would be good but unavailable
The only good 4 cylinder lump out there is the Saab b234 r engine as fitted to the 9000 aero and others
easily taken to 400 hp and totally reliable ...plenty of space for it and if there was one I would buy it tomorrow ...
Viggen blue please

[eddy_hyde]

saw one of these tooling about coventry the other day, was impressed enough to go digging

NSX engine would be nice, but seriously rare, would have thought the H22 engine from the Prelude or Accord type R would have been good 200bhp and nice torque too

But i prefer this for similar money,

www.dynamic-performance.co.uk/

[pic]www.dynamic-performance.co.uk/images/photos/lrg/ex2lrg.jpg [/pic]

[Ferg]

eddy_hyde said:

But i prefer this for similar money,

That's a curious comparison. The cars are in very different niche sectors and, perhaps more importantly, the build quality of the Attack (from my viewing of the demonstrator) is a million miles behind the Phantom.

[Brent02]

I am following the discussion of the phantom from a distance
And this cars looks still gives me a warm feeling
This from the first time i saw the car in Wich Kit? in 1997
I do think this car needs a good marketing strategy.
Could somebody update the latest developments?