Thursday 29th August 2002
Phantom Vortex GTR
Graham Bell reports on the kit car with production car ambitions.
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Guy Humpage
Original Poster
3,529 posts
153 months
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Another good artice. Keep up the good work Graham and Ted.  Although the Phantom is a good looking car (especially for a kit car) I wouldn't put it on any all-time list. Also the 30-grand fully-built price puts it in the same league as a second-hand Tuscan.
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stevenrt
141 posts
139 months
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If the Census looked like that, they would sell like hotcakes at the 26K price of the FBS.
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gnomesmith
2,457 posts
145 months
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It looks even better in the flesh and has a finish that most manufacturers would die for.
A more up to date V6 sounds good, meanwhile the blown twin cam 4 from the 820 is a good engine that can be chipped to provide gobs of power, shouldn't be too difficult to fit seeing where it came from. How it about it Phantom?
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ATG
12,033 posts
141 months
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Great looking car (best of the non-gt lookalike kits by a mile). Its got lots of classic hints ... Ferrari 360 and Dino, something Aston Martiny about the rear wheel arches ... but still an original look overall. Love the cabin forward side profile. But how's it going to sell if it only gets to 60 in 6ish? Surprising it doesn't have quite a bit more power from day 1 if they're going to ask for 30k. ... but it does look like an MR2  >> Edited by ATG on Thursday 29th August 19:24
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Farmer
1,243 posts
143 months
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I agree it is a stunner in the flesh , with superb finnish and detailing . Just a thought, but the Stratos replicas have used both the rover V6 and Alfa V6 so I would have thought that would be a great place to start looking for grunt , new GTA stuffs out 250 BHP as standard . and oooh that noise ,suits you sir !
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gnomesmith
2,457 posts
145 months
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A good home for a crashed NSX's guts?
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grahambell
2,695 posts
144 months
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Hi Farmer,
Alfa V6 does sound like interesting choice for anybody wanting more power for their Phantom. Of course as it s a kit car, builders can fit (or at least attempt to) any engine they like and Phantom have already had an enquiry from someone thinking of fitting two Honda motorbike engines!
Sadly the Alfa isn t practical as a new supply unit for production due to problems in dealing with the Italians as Grinnall discovered with their original plan (now abandoned) to make the Scorpion 4 with Fiat engines.
Ford might not have an exotic name but it s always been helpful to specialist car companies so latest 3 litre Duratec from Mondeo ST220 looks favoured option at moment if Ford will make it available (something they did NOT do with the ST200 unit). Ford engine would also help make production versions suitable for sales worldwide, which is of course an important commercial consideration. Have to wait and see how that pans out, but I d be happy to have one with a chipped Honda engine.
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Bodo
9,409 posts
135 months
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Nice proportions and well developed aesthetics (except for the tail lights). I wonder how much work is involved to get the clamshell off for better service access 
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BarryG
84 posts
138 months
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Great looking car - needs a V8 though. How about BMW's 4.4 V8, the same one that Morgan uses?
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juansolo
2,401 posts
147 months
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The problem with using a Beemer V8 or the NSX V6 is that they are both mounted lengthways (I'm sure there is a technical term for it) whereas the on in this kit appears to be midmounted in a transverse configuration. It would require a lot of work to get the BMW or Honda in there as you'd have to find a diff and gearbox that could be mated to it, solve oil issues with it being mounted side on (at least a custom sump) not to mention other issues.
Regular FWD stuff should be possible though as it's all already on there. So providing it fits you could possibly drop a Alfa V6 in there which would give a lovely soundtrack and plenty of go. Or something like a Duratec V6 turbo it up a'la Noble M12 and you could be talking in the region or 350bhp.
I do like the idea of the Alfa though. To me it would suit the car down to the ground.
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BarryG
84 posts
138 months
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Oh well, I never claim to have much knowledge of the oily bits of cars - I just love driving them...!
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Miguel
1,030 posts
134 months
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The word you're looking for, Juan, is longitudinally. However, according to what I've read, the NSX's engine is transversely placed, making it a possibility for the Phantom as long as it fits or can be made to fit.
Being a DOHC design, it'll probably be wider than the SOHC 2.5 and 2.7 engines even if all the other block dimensions are the same, and even more so if they're not.
I don't know how the BMW V8 is installed in the mid-engined Ascari, but I'll assume that there it sits longitudinally, since I can't think of too many mid-engined cars with eight cylinders or more with a transverse engine other than the Ferrari 308/328 and Lamborghini Miura.
juansolo wrote:
The problem with using a Beemer V8 or the NSX V6 is that they are both mounted lengthways (I'm sure there is a technical term for it) whereas the on in this kit appears to be midmounted in a transverse configuration.
snip
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juansolo
2,401 posts
147 months
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Oooooh interesting. I always thought the NSX was longditudinal with a transaxle on the end. I sit corrected >> Edited by juansolo on Monday 9th September 08:40
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jondokic
385 posts
136 months
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From www.kitkat.bun.com/gtr/ the engine bay looks on the small side for an engine any larger than the 2.7l SOHC Honda/Rover lump although one builder has squeezed in Ford's 2.5l V6, so possibly not. I would have thought the Honda engine would respond to tuning like any other, so perhaps turbo/supercharging would be the way to go for more power. I once bought a Rover 800 Vitesse as a company car. Serious breakdown of taste/judgement/good sense that day 
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fizz
251 posts
139 months
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Well, well well...Looks like Phantom is building their own cars now. Went to their site and saw piccies that were very impressive. Curious about what the interior looks like. What happenned to Honda power and build it yourself?
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grahambell
2,695 posts
144 months
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Hi fizz,
The kit form Honda powered car is still available. Not sure what the latest interior revisions are yet and how many only affect the Ford powered car, but as I'm waiting to cover the latter I should be able to find out soon.
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vojx
251 posts
111 months
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gnomesmith said:| A good home for a crashed NSX's guts? |
A better place would be in my Stratos (which does 0-60 in 5 secs with a mostly standard 2.7 V6  )
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ElCamino
8 posts
100 months
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Sorry to kick an old topic, but I am very interested in this kit, but I can't seem to find from which year the donor car needs to be... The site also mentions the Honda Legend as a suitable car (it has the same engine offcourse). Does anyone know from which modelyear the donor has to be? Does anyone here has experience building this kit, or know a good site with something like a build-diary?
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grahambell
2,695 posts
144 months
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hughesie2
11,913 posts
151 months
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grahambell said: Tis a lovely car as well !!
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