Kit car build, exo frame style, what is there?
Discussion
I'm looking to do a kit car build, but I want it to be fast, properly fast. My previous quick car was an R32GTR with about 700bhp, and my current bike is a 205bhp Ducati 1299s
So, whats about that fits the bill? Obviously the Ultima would be superb, but that's way beyond my budget, and as a first build quite adventurous. I'd like it to be cost effective to build.
Power wise, to get a similar power to weight of the R32GTR would be nice....
So, whats about that fits the bill? Obviously the Ultima would be superb, but that's way beyond my budget, and as a first build quite adventurous. I'd like it to be cost effective to build.
Power wise, to get a similar power to weight of the R32GTR would be nice....
This is where the chapman principle come in aka added lightened .....
Your 700hp skyline weight 1.43 tonnes (according to wiki) which is 489 BHp/tonne.
In a kit of 600kg you need 300hp to have the same BNP/tonne.
It is a crude comparison but gives an idea of what performance is needed from the engine to get similar performance. The benefit of the light car is that with this power it will be as quick in a straight line but handle and go round corners significantly better., you are also closer to the elements and that heightens the feeling of sped aswell.
Ultimate in performance would probably be a well built seven or even better a fury/Phoenix (better aero) with either 400hp car engine or a hyabusa turbo 300hp engine.
Have a search for the videos of the 400hp Phoenix of Jeffw (search YouTube and locostbuilders) to see what is possible with a budget of around £15-20k.
Your 700hp skyline weight 1.43 tonnes (according to wiki) which is 489 BHp/tonne.
In a kit of 600kg you need 300hp to have the same BNP/tonne.
It is a crude comparison but gives an idea of what performance is needed from the engine to get similar performance. The benefit of the light car is that with this power it will be as quick in a straight line but handle and go round corners significantly better., you are also closer to the elements and that heightens the feeling of sped aswell.
Ultimate in performance would probably be a well built seven or even better a fury/Phoenix (better aero) with either 400hp car engine or a hyabusa turbo 300hp engine.
Have a search for the videos of the 400hp Phoenix of Jeffw (search YouTube and locostbuilders) to see what is possible with a budget of around £15-20k.
AngryBaldMan said:
I'm looking to do a kit car build, but I want it to be fast, properly fast. My previous quick car was an R32GTR with about 700bhp, and my current bike is a 205bhp Ducati 1299s
So, whats about that fits the bill? Obviously the Ultima would be superb, but that's way beyond my budget, and as a first build quite adventurous. I'd like it to be cost effective to build.
Power wise, to get a similar power to weight of the R32GTR would be nice....
Dont bother with a kit, just buy an Atom.So, whats about that fits the bill? Obviously the Ultima would be superb, but that's way beyond my budget, and as a first build quite adventurous. I'd like it to be cost effective to build.
Power wise, to get a similar power to weight of the R32GTR would be nice....
ugg10 said:
What about a R1ot with a 1.6 ecoboost that can be tuned to 300hp without internal mods, can buy all the bits including the engine from one place (basically a mid engine seven), or if you want something more streamlines then the basis for the Sylva sportscars j17 is the same.
Looks like their website is perhaps not their highest priority. AngryBaldMan said:
Looks like their website is perhaps not their highest priority.
Their Facebook page is more useful https://www.facebook.com/sylva.sportscars?hc_ref=N...
The new owner is looking to do a coupe version when he gets time, think ginetta g12, should be interesting.
ugg10 said:
What about a R1ot with a 1.6 ecoboost that can be tuned to 300hp without internal mods, can buy all the bits including the engine from one place (basically a mid engine seven), or if you want something more streamlines then the basis for the Sylva sportscars j17 is the same.
Looks like their website is perhaps not their highest priority. AngryBaldMan said:
Looks like their website is perhaps not their highest priority.
Don't be put off; unlike some, the R1ot is a properly-sorted chassis that handles very well, from the pen of Jeremy Phillips.Bear in mind also that big power in very light cars like this is ultimately a bit pointless, you'll be traction and road-smoothness limited everywhere. Light cars are a fundamentally-different proposition to conventional 'big turbo/big power in a >>tonne-plus car'.
Yes; and it depends what you think you want. Perhaps getting a ride in a few potential examples would be worth the time to arrange.
There are regulars here running big power in light cars - see, say, Jeffw's 400hp supercharged Sylva Phoenix, having see it up-close and in action at Brighton it's beautifully put-together, very quick and very-well developed. And that salso means - a significant investment, in time and resources, as any really-good car will be.
Personally I found really pushing the 'light/quick' thing its own reward. I have a Fisher Fury with an R1 in it running about 170hp normally-aspirated, 505kg fully-fuelled& running with me in it; a screamer really, and no, not actually the fastest-evah road car. But ~ 7yrs in - it does everything I want, a total kinaesthetic workout to drive well and I'm still learning from it: so no plans to change.
Horses for courses...
There are regulars here running big power in light cars - see, say, Jeffw's 400hp supercharged Sylva Phoenix, having see it up-close and in action at Brighton it's beautifully put-together, very quick and very-well developed. And that salso means - a significant investment, in time and resources, as any really-good car will be.
Personally I found really pushing the 'light/quick' thing its own reward. I have a Fisher Fury with an R1 in it running about 170hp normally-aspirated, 505kg fully-fuelled& running with me in it; a screamer really, and no, not actually the fastest-evah road car. But ~ 7yrs in - it does everything I want, a total kinaesthetic workout to drive well and I'm still learning from it: so no plans to change.
Horses for courses...
Edited by Huff on Sunday 4th December 21:32
Huff said:
Don't be put off; unlike some, the R1ot is a properly-sorted chassis that handles very well, from the pen of Jeremy Phillips.
Bear in mind also that big power in very light cars like this is ultimately a bit pointless, you'll be traction and road-smoothness limited everywhere. Light cars are a fundamentally-different proposition to conventional 'big turbo/big power in a >>tonne-plus car'.
I can see the argument for lower power on the roads, but I don't agree that more is pointless.Bear in mind also that big power in very light cars like this is ultimately a bit pointless, you'll be traction and road-smoothness limited everywhere. Light cars are a fundamentally-different proposition to conventional 'big turbo/big power in a >>tonne-plus car'.
Sure you can't always nail it down every straight on a b-road, but it's hilarious for overtaking. And on track of course you are rarely if ever likely to have too much.
AngryBaldMan said:
ugg10 said:
What about a R1ot with a 1.6 ecoboost that can be tuned to 300hp without internal mods, can buy all the bits including the engine from one place (basically a mid engine seven), or if you want something more streamlines then the basis for the Sylva sportscars j17 is the same.
Looks like their website is perhaps not their highest priority. How many seats do you want - THIS could be fast - properly fast!
LS1, 2 or 3 depending on your budget with a Porsche G50 gearbox, you might need some very large cojones to use it on the road though!
In all seriousness, I would go for mid-engined over front engined 7 type any day, with a lightweight 7 you will struggle to ever sensibly put more than about 300bhp on the floor, tho' you will find some on here who are quite determined that the laws of physics don't actually apply to them or anything they build!
I also would not dismiss bike engines, we use the ZZR1400 in the Furore & it is an absolutely superb engine, I've never broken one, despite some serious abuse, will putter round town in 6th gear at 30mph if you ask it to, but has the screaming soundtrack & all the power you could (sensibly) want or use in a lightweight car
LS1, 2 or 3 depending on your budget with a Porsche G50 gearbox, you might need some very large cojones to use it on the road though!
In all seriousness, I would go for mid-engined over front engined 7 type any day, with a lightweight 7 you will struggle to ever sensibly put more than about 300bhp on the floor, tho' you will find some on here who are quite determined that the laws of physics don't actually apply to them or anything they build!
I also would not dismiss bike engines, we use the ZZR1400 in the Furore & it is an absolutely superb engine, I've never broken one, despite some serious abuse, will putter round town in 6th gear at 30mph if you ask it to, but has the screaming soundtrack & all the power you could (sensibly) want or use in a lightweight car
I suppose I'm put off with the bike engine as I have a fast bike, so I know that "most" bike engines will have less power then my bike, and all kit cars will be heavier than my bike.
I looked at the V-storm and got some prices, it would appear to be quite an expensive kit. By that, I don't mean for what it is, but they offer a drive away, fully built car for £30k, but to buy the parts it £27k inc VAT and you still need a donor vehicle? It just doesn't stack up.
I looked at the V-storm and got some prices, it would appear to be quite an expensive kit. By that, I don't mean for what it is, but they offer a drive away, fully built car for £30k, but to buy the parts it £27k inc VAT and you still need a donor vehicle? It just doesn't stack up.
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