Lotus Elite Kit?
Discussion
ChrisJ. said:
Where can you buy these Elite bodies, or kits?
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.n...
That was the 'replica' manufactured by Spyder Engineering. It wasn't terribly well received, I don't think, and I'm not aware that they are still manufacturing it - Minor5's post, above, seems to suggest that in 2008, he had the moulds.http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.n...
TheLastPost said:
That was the 'replica' manufactured by Spyder Engineering. It wasn't terribly well received, I don't think, and I'm not aware that they are still manufacturing it - Minor5's post, above, seems to suggest that in 2008, he had the moulds.
Thanks for that.I didn't know it existed until the other day.
Was it actually ever advertised?
I'd have one!
ChrisJ. said:
Was it actually ever advertised?
I can't recall it ever being advertised in the magazines (maybe the Club Lotus mag, and it had editorial in the Kit Car press), but it certainly did the rounds on Spyder's stand at the Lotus Show, Stoneleigh, Newark etc.It wasn't a bad looking car in its own right, but it was a bloated jellymould with gauche detailing in comparison to the original Elite - which probably meant that displaying it a the Donington Lotus Show in proximity to genuine Elites did it no favours.
TheLastPost said:
It wasn't a bad looking car in its own right, but it was a bloated jellymould with gauche detailing in comparison to the original Elite - which probably meant that displaying it a the Donington Lotus Show in proximity to genuine Elites did it no favours.
Thanks again.I wonder if it was moulded off a damaged and repaired shell?
With all due respect to Spyder Engineering - they have done a lot over the years to improve the basic Elan and other Lotus models - I would have no interest in this particular project. The proportions are not those of the original Elite and to convert an Elan to this sort of pseudo-Elite simply does not make any sense to me. What would be great would be a carbon Elite with an appropriate engine, suspension and wheel/tyre combination - perhaps powered by a Nissan or Honda engine. The classic styling of the original is simply too iconic to squeeze over an Elan - and the original Elan is simply too cool to be subjected to this sort of damaging cosmetic surgery.
More Stylus than Phoenix, I thought?
...and why waste money on an 'Elite' bodykit when you can make such a convincing Lotus replica for the price of a few rattle-cans and some vinyl transfers?
Tumblehome would be a problem on any sort of Elite look-alike, though; the original cars didn't have wind-up windows because the glass was so steeply inclined (and curved) and the 'glasshouse' is so critical to the car's form that it would be impossible to replicate the look with an MX5 windscreen and side windows.
...and why waste money on an 'Elite' bodykit when you can make such a convincing Lotus replica for the price of a few rattle-cans and some vinyl transfers?
Tumblehome would be a problem on any sort of Elite look-alike, though; the original cars didn't have wind-up windows because the glass was so steeply inclined (and curved) and the 'glasshouse' is so critical to the car's form that it would be impossible to replicate the look with an MX5 windscreen and side windows.
ChrisJ. said:
It's got to look like exactly like an Elite, down to the last little period detail.
Then the only option open to you (apart from acquiring the original or the Encore - which is owned by a PistonHeader) would be to build one from scratch using a reproduction bodyshell, but the cost would be eye-watering, even in glassfibre.Reproduction monocoques used to be available from A.N.E. Bates, and I assume that they still are somewhere - I'm sure that some of the members of the Historic Lotus Register and the Elite Register would be able to point you in the right direction. From there, you'd just have to do what Mike Ostrov did and graft the shell onto a (Spyder replacement) Elan backbone chassis, if you didn't want the limitations of the original monocoque.
It's not just the monocoque, however - one of the reasons the Encore project stumbled was the cost of reproducing some of the bespoke brightwork like window frames and bumpers (though I suppose you could replicate a racer and do without the latter).
ChrisJ. said:
Replicating the monocoque constuction would be too much (as it was for Lotus at the time)...
As Alchemistoxford intimated, I don't think it would be difficult to resolve the monocoque's shortcomings (and indeed massively improve it) with modern composites knowledge, if you wanted to. Lotus (or rather Bristol Aircraft, the subcontractor they later used for the monocoque) managed to sort the problems back in the 1950's, they were just not capable of making a profit on it.In any case, apart from the fact that the monocoque was very labour intensive to manufacture (and therefore not commercially viable for the scale of production that Lotus envisaged), its main shortcoming was the weakness of the diff mounting. This would be easy enough to beef up, using modern techniques, and would only become critical if you used fat, high-grip modern tyres. Otherwise, the grip of the tyres acts as a 'fusible link' to ensure that the diff mountings aren't overloaded.
i have moulds for the t14 elite bodyshell and at some point will be producing a kit version but utilising a steel chassis as opposed to the grp monocoque of the original. we are also making very subtle changes to the doors by adding a grp window frame to avoid the astronomical costs of the side screens and frames.
we started this project quite a few years ago now, but due to a messy divorce and a bout of ill health it was put on the back burner, however with the originalrestoration car car now back on its wheels and almost ready for paint,the "replica" version will soon be back on track,the final decision on running gear/donor is still under discussion here mx5 was considered but i have a bit of a psychological problem with using jap parts on something i consider to be "very british" apart from the fact that an mx5 is 9" wider than the 14, another consideration is mg midget running gear, track is good but obviously the irs would be replaced by a live axle.any thoughts or ideas on this would be much appreciated.
we started this project quite a few years ago now, but due to a messy divorce and a bout of ill health it was put on the back burner, however with the originalrestoration car car now back on its wheels and almost ready for paint,the "replica" version will soon be back on track,the final decision on running gear/donor is still under discussion here mx5 was considered but i have a bit of a psychological problem with using jap parts on something i consider to be "very british" apart from the fact that an mx5 is 9" wider than the 14, another consideration is mg midget running gear, track is good but obviously the irs would be replaced by a live axle.any thoughts or ideas on this would be much appreciated.
Mirach - Glad that you have body molds for the t14 Lotus Elite, but I would not be interested in a live rear axle on this iconic British sports car. When driving an Elite, the IRS provides a huge dollop of the original experience. If you build an Elite "replica" with a live rear axle all you are really doing is putting a suit of Lotus clothes on a Spridget. And, I would have no problem with a Japanese engine. Just look at the current range of Lotus Elises and Evoras with their brilliant Toyota engines. Honda and Nissan both make excellent engines as well. Of course, there are K-Series and Zetecs already making their way into Elans. Good luck with your project. I hope you will keep us informed.
mirach said:
i have moulds for the t14 elite bodyshell and at some point will be producing a kit version...
To clarify, are you saying you have moulds for the Lotus Type 14 Elite, or the Spyder T140 linked above? If the former, are they the original moulds, or a copy taken off a genuine car?I'm with Alchemistoxford: I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in anything as crude as a live axle under an Elite replica; but then nor would I be interested in a crudely modified pastiche with a ladder frame chassis and MX5 subframes (or anything with a big, heavy engine and/or modern wide, low-profile tyres).
I think you have to recognise that your target audience will be those people who appreciate the sophistication of the original - the Elite, after all, is relatively poorly known compared to other cars commonly replicated, like the Cobra and Seven, and will appeal to a much smaller and more discerning group of buyers.
I would be seriously interested if you could make create something as appropriate, sophisticated and visually accurate as the Encore Super 95.
...and ChrisJ. said:
It's got to look like exactly like an Elite, down to the last little period detail.
...so that would appear to be three of us singing from the same hymn sheet?I strongly suspect you'll struggle with the engine height of most modern twin cam engines under the Elite's bonnet line, but the K-series or Ford Sigma (nothing bigger, please!) would be appropriate in terms of both weight and power output, if you could make them fit. The SOHC version of the K-series would be a close match, technically, to the original Climax FWE, but I suspect most people would want something a bit more sexy and modern?
I would not dream of telling anyone how to run a business - it's your money and I'm sure you know what you are doing!
However.....here's what I would do!
It looks like what is needed is a modern re-imagining of the Elite. I think the only way to do this, and stay true to the car, is to continually ask yourself "What would Colin Chapman do?". Clearly, he would have ditched the monocoque - the Élan showed him how much more economical the separate chassis was, so that I think is a valid path to follow. When looking at running gear, however, I think that CC would not have been squeamish about using foreign technology. After all, the Excel used lots of Toyota parts and the Europa used Renault gearboxes. I think he would have used the best parts for the job. I.e. the lightest!!! To that end, select an engine/gearbox combination that gives the desired power in the lightest, most compact package. It may me that a car like this does not need mega horsepower - imagine a Aygo/C1 three pot with a RWD gearbox. 75bhp, compact and light as a feather, and close to the original. You can then select the rear diff to suit the output, but it must be IRS - shorten the drive shafts if necessary. The hubs can be whatever you like, but there are plenty of options if the Spyder chassis was to be used! Then, make it look as authentic as possible, within reason and voila!!!
However.....here's what I would do!
It looks like what is needed is a modern re-imagining of the Elite. I think the only way to do this, and stay true to the car, is to continually ask yourself "What would Colin Chapman do?". Clearly, he would have ditched the monocoque - the Élan showed him how much more economical the separate chassis was, so that I think is a valid path to follow. When looking at running gear, however, I think that CC would not have been squeamish about using foreign technology. After all, the Excel used lots of Toyota parts and the Europa used Renault gearboxes. I think he would have used the best parts for the job. I.e. the lightest!!! To that end, select an engine/gearbox combination that gives the desired power in the lightest, most compact package. It may me that a car like this does not need mega horsepower - imagine a Aygo/C1 three pot with a RWD gearbox. 75bhp, compact and light as a feather, and close to the original. You can then select the rear diff to suit the output, but it must be IRS - shorten the drive shafts if necessary. The hubs can be whatever you like, but there are plenty of options if the Spyder chassis was to be used! Then, make it look as authentic as possible, within reason and voila!!!
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