Discussion
Paul Drawmer said:
VladD said:
So just to clarify something I'm not sure about, can you run engines and gearboxes backwards (by that I don't mean facing the other way, I mean with the crank shaft rotating in the opposite direction). I can't see why not, but then I'm not an expert.
NoI'm totally lost now...
If you use the Scooby engine and running gear as-is, it would be rear engined and turning the wheels the wrong way. Think of a Scooby from the side, pick up the body and turn it round, leaving the wheels and chassis on the floor. The car would now have 5/6 (?) reverse gears and one forward gear.
The engine, having been out the front, in front of the gearbox is now out the back, behind the gearbix, so very much rear engined. If you turned the engine round to make it mid engined, you would have no drive to the front for 4wd.
If, however, you used a Honda F20 engine, which rotates the opposite way to most engines, you would have 5/6 forward gears and one reverse, but it would be rear, instead of mid engined.
The Quaife 4wd set up was pretty cool in the old GT1 class, but it is a bit over kill for this. I would have thought an Evo transmission and F20 would be a good combo, even if it is still a little bit rear engined.
If you use the Scooby engine and running gear as-is, it would be rear engined and turning the wheels the wrong way. Think of a Scooby from the side, pick up the body and turn it round, leaving the wheels and chassis on the floor. The car would now have 5/6 (?) reverse gears and one forward gear.
The engine, having been out the front, in front of the gearbox is now out the back, behind the gearbix, so very much rear engined. If you turned the engine round to make it mid engined, you would have no drive to the front for 4wd.
If, however, you used a Honda F20 engine, which rotates the opposite way to most engines, you would have 5/6 forward gears and one reverse, but it would be rear, instead of mid engined.
The Quaife 4wd set up was pretty cool in the old GT1 class, but it is a bit over kill for this. I would have thought an Evo transmission and F20 would be a good combo, even if it is still a little bit rear engined.
You can use a reverse rotation transfer box if going 4x4 (google Milner off road)
Here is my mates copy with an M3 engine and Elite sequential box.
Not sure if Cyclone sold any engines, the maker Keith Banyard has one in a 4x4 racer that his son uses in France. The car was at Autosport a couple of years ago, a new shaped Mini with carbon shell
Here is my mates copy with an M3 engine and Elite sequential box.
Not sure if Cyclone sold any engines, the maker Keith Banyard has one in a 4x4 racer that his son uses in France. The car was at Autosport a couple of years ago, a new shaped Mini with carbon shell
Ramthorne said:
You can use a reverse rotation transfer box if going 4x4 (google Milner off road)
Here is my mates copy with an M3 engine and Elite sequential box.
Not sure if Cyclone sold any engines, the maker Keith Banyard has one in a 4x4 racer that his son uses in France. The car was at Autosport a couple of years ago, a new shaped Mini with carbon shell
got any more info on this car?? looks pretty good! Here is my mates copy with an M3 engine and Elite sequential box.
Not sure if Cyclone sold any engines, the maker Keith Banyard has one in a 4x4 racer that his son uses in France. The car was at Autosport a couple of years ago, a new shaped Mini with carbon shell
Chris.
Paul Drawmer said:
VladD said:
So just to clarify something I'm not sure about, can you run engines and gearboxes backwards (by that I don't mean facing the other way, I mean with the crank shaft rotating in the opposite direction). I can't see why not, but then I'm not an expert.
NoGearboxes also can be run in reverse, or at the very least, straight cut dog engagement gearboxes can be run in reverse. I don't know about helical cuts however I suspect that loading the gear on the other side of the tooth may cause it to fracture prematurely. (although this will depend on the strength of the gears and the power you put through it).
Watch the subaru 4x4 box. As with all 4x4 boxes they are designed to distribute power to all four wheels as such the box internals tend to be rather weak when only driving two. The center diff can be locked to give you a good mid engine platform, just don't load it too hard.
dom9 said:
I'm totally lost now...
If you use the Scooby engine and running gear as-is, it would be rear engined and turning the wheels the wrong way. Think of a Scooby from the side, pick up the body and turn it round, leaving the wheels and chassis on the floor. The car would now have 5/6 (?) reverse gears and one forward gear.
The engine, having been out the front, in front of the gearbox is now out the back, behind the gearbix, so very much rear engined. If you turned the engine round to make it mid engined, you would have no drive to the front for 4wd.
If, however, you used a Honda F20 engine, which rotates the opposite way to most engines, you would have 5/6 forward gears and one reverse, but it would be rear, instead of mid engined.
The Quaife 4wd set up was pretty cool in the old GT1 class, but it is a bit over kill for this. I would have thought an Evo transmission and F20 would be a good combo, even if it is still a little bit rear engined.
The simplest way to use a Subaru engine and have a mid-engined layout would be to install the engine and box in the same orientation as in an Impreza, with the transaxle driving the rear wheels.If you use the Scooby engine and running gear as-is, it would be rear engined and turning the wheels the wrong way. Think of a Scooby from the side, pick up the body and turn it round, leaving the wheels and chassis on the floor. The car would now have 5/6 (?) reverse gears and one forward gear.
The engine, having been out the front, in front of the gearbox is now out the back, behind the gearbix, so very much rear engined. If you turned the engine round to make it mid engined, you would have no drive to the front for 4wd.
If, however, you used a Honda F20 engine, which rotates the opposite way to most engines, you would have 5/6 forward gears and one reverse, but it would be rear, instead of mid engined.
The Quaife 4wd set up was pretty cool in the old GT1 class, but it is a bit over kill for this. I would have thought an Evo transmission and F20 would be a good combo, even if it is still a little bit rear engined.
Then you'd need to mate the output at the rear of the transaxle to a shaft running forward to transfer drive to a diff at the front.
Unfortunately the shaft would have to go under the engine (no room at the side as it's a boxer).
The best you could hope for would be 50/50 torque split (IIRC) unless you started fiddling with the gearbox innards.
Redmist336 said:
Paul Drawmer said:
VladD said:
...can you run engines and gearboxes backwards
No
There are several more factors to be taken into consideration before driving gearboxes in the opposite direction to that intended by the designer,the helical gear teeth themselves will usually be of symmetrical profile,thus equally strong in either direction,however the resultant axial thrusts on the shafts will be in the opposite direction,problems occuring if the thrust bearings prove to be inadequate in the new application,there may also be problems re the splash lubrication from oil picked up by the gears which would normally be flung in a specific direction,no longer being directed to the designed place,(assuming no pump of course),some boxes have weir systems to dribble oil to specific locations,more usually found in M/C transmissions.
Hypoid bevel gears are designed to be run in specific directions so under high load conditions several types of problem may result.
Regarding the engine ,if the bores are desaxe or the gudgeon pins ditto,all sorts of problems would occur,to say nothing of the crankshaft lubrication,timing tensioners etc; OK anything is possible given time and money but short of a fairly comprehensive lubrication system redesign ,custom crankshaft and test/development programme,in the real world the answer is the same as Paul Drawmer ie NO!
Hypoid bevel gears are designed to be run in specific directions so under high load conditions several types of problem may result.
Regarding the engine ,if the bores are desaxe or the gudgeon pins ditto,all sorts of problems would occur,to say nothing of the crankshaft lubrication,timing tensioners etc; OK anything is possible given time and money but short of a fairly comprehensive lubrication system redesign ,custom crankshaft and test/development programme,in the real world the answer is the same as Paul Drawmer ie NO!
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