KITCAR DESIGN sketches/concepts year 2008-10
Discussion
I think a kit-car competition to the new marcos would be the ticket, something that is basic, powerful, sounds fantastic, goes like hell with a roof and can be used as a daily driver. Production car wise, what is out there besides the Marcos - and that costs £60K!
I think the idea of using as many existing parts as possible is a good one, but why limit to production cars - using the chasis off existing kit cars like the cobras was a great idea. How hard would it be to make a re-bodied cobra for instance?
I loved that little blue scale model. The only thing is it looked a bit too space aged for me, but in full size, it would probably look a lot better.
How many of you guys have seen the Zolfe Orange concept? Pitty it has a motorbike engine, it would be brilliant with a V8 and a decent interior! All Zolfe did was take a space frame, put on a 240z front and a 250 GTO back and bingo, new road-track car.
frustrating because it feel doable...
Zigs
I think the idea of using as many existing parts as possible is a good one, but why limit to production cars - using the chasis off existing kit cars like the cobras was a great idea. How hard would it be to make a re-bodied cobra for instance?
I loved that little blue scale model. The only thing is it looked a bit too space aged for me, but in full size, it would probably look a lot better.
How many of you guys have seen the Zolfe Orange concept? Pitty it has a motorbike engine, it would be brilliant with a V8 and a decent interior! All Zolfe did was take a space frame, put on a 240z front and a 250 GTO back and bingo, new road-track car.
frustrating because it feel doable...
Zigs
cymtriks said:
[
I still don't think you understand.
My idea is not a replica, it is an attempt to use as much of an existing car, built in the way that kits are built, and parts as possible but changing enough to avoid being a replica.
With a revised bonnet, rear side windows and round tail lamps an other wise standard plus 2 would look different but still be able to use all the trim and glass from the Lotus cars.
I can't see why such a car would need to be positioned so high up in the market as you imply.
I still don't think you understand.
My idea is not a replica, it is an attempt to use as much of an existing car, built in the way that kits are built, and parts as possible but changing enough to avoid being a replica.
With a revised bonnet, rear side windows and round tail lamps an other wise standard plus 2 would look different but still be able to use all the trim and glass from the Lotus cars.
I can't see why such a car would need to be positioned so high up in the market as you imply.
Chris, I see your point ,..after having visited the spyder website, and having seen their various options, with front and mid-engined chassis options.
I visited their special projects section, with very interesting one-off and bespoke design projects.
www.spydercars.co.uk/pg4_special_projects.htm
Something to consider and think about......
Zigs said:
I think a kit-car competition to the new marcos would be the ticket, something that is basic, powerful, sounds fantastic, goes like hell with a roof and can be used as a daily driver. Production car wise, what is out there besides the Marcos - and that costs £60K!
I think the idea of using as many existing parts as possible is a good one, but why limit to production cars - using the chasis off existing kit cars like the cobras was a great idea. How hard would it be to make a re-bodied cobra for instance?
frustrating because it feel doable...
Zigs
I think the idea of using as many existing parts as possible is a good one, but why limit to production cars - using the chasis off existing kit cars like the cobras was a great idea. How hard would it be to make a re-bodied cobra for instance?
frustrating because it feel doable...
Zigs
I don't think it would be that hard to rebody a Cobra, in fact i think Gardner Douglas Sportscars did just that a few years ago, but wonder if it ever reached production.?
www.gdcars.com/gdgt/gdgt_gallery.htm
I agree with you, the Zolfe looks really good....
Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 15th May 10:12
fuoriserie said:
JenkinsComp said:
If I was able to guarantee that I could do another car after the Veeteor, then I would do a small, fast, fun, town car that is green and good looking. Similar to the requirement of the automotive X prize really.
[url]http://auto.xprize.org/[/url]
It would be a proper modern day Mini. Ie not a premium product!
To me, there is no way of making a decent amount of money making sportscars as a guy by yourself.
There are so many available that it is a very crowded market.
The longest and best selling cars of all time are the VW Beetle, Citroen 2CV and the Mini.
All of which were very basic, had to be reliable and cheap, but also looked good (well maybe not the 2CV but obviously alot of people thought differently to me!). Kit cars have a massive advantage over production cars in the UK because insurance is so cheap - to a family on a budget things like the price of insurance can often swing a decision on which car to buy.
t. Anyone care to come up with a potential design for the body shape? It's just got to be good looking and fit around 4 adults without being too big.
[url]http://auto.xprize.org/[/url]
It would be a proper modern day Mini. Ie not a premium product!
To me, there is no way of making a decent amount of money making sportscars as a guy by yourself.
There are so many available that it is a very crowded market.
The longest and best selling cars of all time are the VW Beetle, Citroen 2CV and the Mini.
All of which were very basic, had to be reliable and cheap, but also looked good (well maybe not the 2CV but obviously alot of people thought differently to me!). Kit cars have a massive advantage over production cars in the UK because insurance is so cheap - to a family on a budget things like the price of insurance can often swing a decision on which car to buy.
t. Anyone care to come up with a potential design for the body shape? It's just got to be good looking and fit around 4 adults without being too big.
Edited by JenkinsComp on Sunday 13th May 11:34
The only car that would fit this design brief, would be a mid-engine 2 plus 2 or 4 seater, and the kitcar industry does have a few mid-engine chassis that could be used, for this project.
Sylva, Mev, Onyx, Aeon, with the smaller mid-engined sportscars, and maybe a few more that i've forgot....
You would need to lenghthen for the extra 2 small seats, and design a very stylish coupe, simple and affordable, that could be converted to alternative fuels if needed.
A hard brief , but achieveble, and if someone is up for it, we can have some fun and see if some manufacturer is willing to lend us a chassis for this project.
I like the idea, and it does make sense, if we all start thinking 2 to 5 years in advance.
Big car manufacturers are doing that already, and the kit industry should take notice, smaller cars are coming back, because we're all getting poorer.......
, just like in the 50's!!!!!! I'm ready..... any other wants to join in the project........
Edited by fuoriserie on Sunday 13th May 18:13
Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 14th May 16:06
I'd do my own chassis to suit if I ever get the chance to build another car from scratch, it's the best way to get a decent result for the right price.
The Z Cars Mini would be a good chassis to use if you were going to buy one in, as the thing is pretty similar in concept to what I was imagining.
JenkinsComp said:
I'd do my own chassis to suit if I ever get the chance to build another car from scratch, it's the best way to get a decent result for the right price.
The Z Cars Mini would be a good chassis to use if you were going to buy one in, as the thing is pretty similar in concept to what I was imagining.
I like the z-cars mini and also the KIMINI, in fact i think he did a great job in building his mid-engine MINI.
check his website:
www.kimini.com/
this looks good
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
Zigs said:
this looks good
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
after a bit of detective work (reading the web address off the bloody great poster in the background
) www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html
Davi said:
Zigs said:
this looks good
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
after a bit of detective work (reading the web address off the bloody great poster in the background
) www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html
Spotted in the wild:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread
dxg said:
Davi said:
Zigs said:
this looks good
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
after a bit of detective work (reading the web address off the bloody great poster in the background
) www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html
I am in love... I wonder how much to get one over here?
Spotted in the wild:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread
On the GTM SUpercar:
"The GTM is a mid engine car, built with a unique weight saving steel frame design that has built in roll over protection as well as crumple zones for safety. The body is built with various composites and carbon fiber that give the GTM a finished weight of about 2400 lbs. The car is capable of 0-60 in 3.1 seconds, low 11 second 1/4 mile times and about a 220 mph top end with the standard, Katech 6.0 L 500 hp engine and custom built 5 or 6 speed trans-axle. The GTM will handle better, and be faster than almost every car made today.. "
Damn....
"The GTM is a mid engine car, built with a unique weight saving steel frame design that has built in roll over protection as well as crumple zones for safety. The body is built with various composites and carbon fiber that give the GTM a finished weight of about 2400 lbs. The car is capable of 0-60 in 3.1 seconds, low 11 second 1/4 mile times and about a 220 mph top end with the standard, Katech 6.0 L 500 hp engine and custom built 5 or 6 speed trans-axle. The GTM will handle better, and be faster than almost every car made today.. "
Damn....
fuoriserie said:
I don't think it would be that hard to rebody a Cobra, in fact i think Gardner Douglas Sportscars did just that a few years ago, but wonder if it ever reached production.?
www.gdcars.com/gdgt/gdgt_gallery.htm
Both sat in the workshop but not finished alas - although we do like to keep nudging Andy and hoping he pulls his finger out one day ;-)
Zigs said:
this looks good
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
Something like this with a shorter wheelbase and a V8, sweet. Just chop off the damn boot! Anybody know what it is?
Zigs
Very nice concept, but this is Exotic/sportscar kit territory, and wonder what is the final build price?
I like it very much, and you could create quite a few nice sportscar designs on that chassis.............
, but how many can afford such a Kit ? these are questions a kit car manufacture will inevitably make,when he decides to invest in a new design, and market the kit. I believe this is in the Ultima kitcar niche? and how many Ultimas are sold yearly? I really have no idea.
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 17th May 08:59
Reading some of the feedback got me thinking that, maybe we should be creating a few potential concepts, divided by niches and reference markets?
What are the niches that haven't been explored yet, by the current kitcar manufacturers? where do you see growth in the future 2 to 5yrs? what cars are still missing ? and final question, would it make sense as a business ?
One-off and bespoke projects are great and love them, but very few kitcar manufacturers would ever consider this as an option, so this new kit has to be something that can be built, with a minimum of volume, let's say 30 to 50 kits a year.
What would you all design having such a brief?
If all these questions are answered and met, and we find a new niche , then we can design something that could make sense..........otherwise we will be designing only one-offs and custom cars.
Maybe start from the bottom of the kitcar market, a very locost, simple and cheerful roadster, fwd or rear wheel drive, or mid-engine? it has to be single donor to keep build cost low, fun and easy to build and mantain, what are your ideas?
Maybe a modern fwd or mid-engine Dune Buggy................., a mini SUV ?, a little and fun mid-engine coupe like the old GTM Coupe of the 80's?
Waiting for your ideas and proposals...and keep the ideas flowing, I've read very good thoughts and comments in this thread.....
What are the niches that haven't been explored yet, by the current kitcar manufacturers? where do you see growth in the future 2 to 5yrs? what cars are still missing ? and final question, would it make sense as a business ?
One-off and bespoke projects are great and love them, but very few kitcar manufacturers would ever consider this as an option, so this new kit has to be something that can be built, with a minimum of volume, let's say 30 to 50 kits a year.
What would you all design having such a brief?
If all these questions are answered and met, and we find a new niche , then we can design something that could make sense..........otherwise we will be designing only one-offs and custom cars.
Maybe start from the bottom of the kitcar market, a very locost, simple and cheerful roadster, fwd or rear wheel drive, or mid-engine? it has to be single donor to keep build cost low, fun and easy to build and mantain, what are your ideas?
Maybe a modern fwd or mid-engine Dune Buggy.................
, a mini SUV ?, a little and fun mid-engine coupe like the old GTM Coupe of the 80's? Waiting for your ideas and proposals...and keep the ideas flowing, I've read very good thoughts and comments in this thread.....
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 17th May 09:27
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 17th May 09:27
happy jim said:
fuoriserie said:
I don't think it would be that hard to rebody a Cobra, in fact i think Gardner Douglas Sportscars did just that a few years ago, but wonder if it ever reached production.?
www.gdcars.com/gdgt/gdgt_gallery.htm
Both sat in the workshop but not finished alas - although we do like to keep nudging Andy and hoping he pulls his finger out one day ;-)
How many of these new sportscars do you think would find a buyer per year? what is the potential niche market? I like this concept, and do think that it does have potential....
Why hasn't anybody designed something new in this niche ? will consider doing a few skethces just for fun......
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 17th May 09:26
fuoriserie said:
happy jim said:
fuoriserie said:
I don't think it would be that hard to rebody a Cobra, in fact i think Gardner Douglas Sportscars did just that a few years ago, but wonder if it ever reached production.?
www.gdcars.com/gdgt/gdgt_gallery.htm
Both sat in the workshop but not finished alas - although we do like to keep nudging Andy and hoping he pulls his finger out one day ;-)
How many of these new sportscars do you think would find a buyer per year? what is the potential niche market? I like this concept, and do think that it does have potential....
Why hasn't anybody designed something new in this niche ? will consider doing a few skethces just for fun......
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 17th May 09:26
Have to say personally I think GD should stick to replica's of legends if that's the kind of thing they come up with themselves. REALLY don't like those from any angle, which is quite an achievement in itself!
The GTM Supercar (i.e. not GTM as in GTM Libra etc, the yank version) has an estimated build price of $40K, so about £20K -> and that includes LS engine and transmission apparently. Build time estimated to be between 250-300 hours (I suppose for a guy alone in his back garden!)
Now an 11 second, 220mph car that looks like that for say £20-30K IMO would clean up. You are talking undercutting nobles and ultima's by at least £20K and it looks better.
The problem that i have with kit cars available today is two fold:
1) a lot of them are just ugly
2) a lot of the look fast (i.e. the GTM Libra) and then you find out it has a 1.4ltr engine... I mean, wtf is that about?
Kit cars do not need to be practical, they need to fulfil the real sports car desires that we have , that is awesome looks, big engines, massive performance and the satisfaction of having built it yourself.
Now an 11 second, 220mph car that looks like that for say £20-30K IMO would clean up. You are talking undercutting nobles and ultima's by at least £20K and it looks better.
The problem that i have with kit cars available today is two fold:
1) a lot of them are just ugly
2) a lot of the look fast (i.e. the GTM Libra) and then you find out it has a 1.4ltr engine... I mean, wtf is that about?
Kit cars do not need to be practical, they need to fulfil the real sports car desires that we have , that is awesome looks, big engines, massive performance and the satisfaction of having built it yourself.
Zigs said:
Kit cars do not need to be practical, they need to fulfil the real sports car desires that we have , that is awesome looks, big engines, massive performance and the satisfaction of having built it yourself.
wrong.
Kit cars need to fulfil whatever desires the prospective purchaser has, just like normal cars.
There are plenty of kits already on the market that offer the pure race type cars we have, any more are purely styling exercises - which as we have seen is a bit of a weak spot in the industry. If this was the only requirement of all kits the market would be booming hugely purely from these race inspired cars.
In real life most people can't afford to run several cars for each of their needs, so many looking at kits will want SOME level of practicality.
Just looking at Steve_d's ultima at stoneleigh was proof enough for me - he was only away for one night and yet there was no room for a passenger - it was taken by his luggage for the night. Useless to me!
Davi said:
[
Have to say personally I think GD should stick to replica's of legends if that's the kind of thing they come up with themselves. REALLY don't like those from any angle, which is quite an achievement in itself!
Have to say personally I think GD should stick to replica's of legends if that's the kind of thing they come up with themselves. REALLY don't like those from any angle, which is quite an achievement in itself!
The design is very subjective...but the idea is very interesting, a raw rear wheel drive sportscar, based on an available Cobra replica chassis.
Something like a kit TVR........just a thought.
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 17th May 10:05
fuoriserie said:
Davi said:
[
Have to say personally I think GD should stick to replica's of legends if that's the kind of thing they come up with themselves. REALLY don't like those from any angle, which is quite an achievement in itself!
Have to say personally I think GD should stick to replica's of legends if that's the kind of thing they come up with themselves. REALLY don't like those from any angle, which is quite an achievement in itself!
The design is very subjective...but the idea is very interesting, a raw rear wheel drive sportscar, based on an available Cobra replica chassis.
Something like a kit TVR........just a thought.
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 17th May 10:05
oh the concept is fine, no problen with that, it's just a bloody ugly wrapper they've put on it IMO.
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