Bought a kit-car - still registered as donor?
Discussion
Having just goon thro all this with my formula 27 registered as a ford escort sports
I could maybe help with my story
I had a V5 with ford escort on it.
Two tax discs with formula 27 on them.
And an old MOT with it on.
I spoke to my local MOT garage and they said they cant MOT it because it is not as described on the V5.
I contacted Swansea they said it would have to be SVAd. But an age related plate would be issued.
I queered this with them as I had made enquires on the web and general opinion was that it did not need SVA.
Still no joy from Swansea.
I then noticed that the colour at some time had been changed from white to silver and yellow.
I then requested the historic details from Swansea (they have to supply this on request if you have a reason for this £10 )
It came back and bingo the body type hade been changed to 2 seater sports in 1997.
The Mot station said that they could now MOT it if I got a chassis number from Swansea.
A man from the local office came round to inspect the car (very nice man) and two days later I got a chassis number.
(I was advised by the nice man to have it stamped on and MOT the car)
which was done.
Contacted Swansea again still no joy.
Then I got mad
I sent them a registered letter stating as far as I was concerned they had been notified of changes to the car and it was there fault that they haven’t changed them.
And that I am going to use the car on the road and take my chances in court.
I then insured the vehicle on the chassis number via one of the well-known kit car people and they informed me that the insurance at least the legal minimum would be valid.
I know one of the local plod and asked his opinion he said if I was stopped or had an accident they would refer it to the authorities and take advice, but said I would have a strong case.
Any way a week later a letter came with age related number (whoopee) and there you have it.
I could maybe help with my story
I had a V5 with ford escort on it.
Two tax discs with formula 27 on them.
And an old MOT with it on.
I spoke to my local MOT garage and they said they cant MOT it because it is not as described on the V5.
I contacted Swansea they said it would have to be SVAd. But an age related plate would be issued.
I queered this with them as I had made enquires on the web and general opinion was that it did not need SVA.
Still no joy from Swansea.
I then noticed that the colour at some time had been changed from white to silver and yellow.
I then requested the historic details from Swansea (they have to supply this on request if you have a reason for this £10 )
It came back and bingo the body type hade been changed to 2 seater sports in 1997.
The Mot station said that they could now MOT it if I got a chassis number from Swansea.
A man from the local office came round to inspect the car (very nice man) and two days later I got a chassis number.
(I was advised by the nice man to have it stamped on and MOT the car)
which was done.
Contacted Swansea again still no joy.
Then I got mad
I sent them a registered letter stating as far as I was concerned they had been notified of changes to the car and it was there fault that they haven’t changed them.
And that I am going to use the car on the road and take my chances in court.
I then insured the vehicle on the chassis number via one of the well-known kit car people and they informed me that the insurance at least the legal minimum would be valid.
I know one of the local plod and asked his opinion he said if I was stopped or had an accident they would refer it to the authorities and take advice, but said I would have a strong case.
Any way a week later a letter came with age related number (whoopee) and there you have it.
auto1 said:
Having just goon thro all this with my formula 27 registered as a ford escort sports
I could maybe help with my story
I had a V5 with ford escort on it.
Two tax discs with formula 27 on them.
And an old MOT with it on...............
I've not had any particular dealings with the DVLA about this sort of thing, but the guy who fights for the cause for the National Street Rod Association, Kev Rooney, reckons most everybody you speak to in VOSA and DVLA has a different idea about exactly how the regulations and rules are interpreted. I could maybe help with my story
I had a V5 with ford escort on it.
Two tax discs with formula 27 on them.
And an old MOT with it on...............
@auto1:
recently bought a sylva which was still a ford-escort in the V5. but same situation as yours: V5 said also: 2 seater convertible.
had a fresh mot and perfect to registrate it over here in germany.
@Altrezia:
due to the V5 (and the "old" registration) you would have a good chance to sell your car outside of UK
recently bought a sylva which was still a ford-escort in the V5. but same situation as yours: V5 said also: 2 seater convertible.
had a fresh mot and perfect to registrate it over here in germany.
@Altrezia:
due to the V5 (and the "old" registration) you would have a good chance to sell your car outside of UK
Edited by Comadis on Tuesday 26th February 18:07
Very very long wait.. but look what the lovely people at the DVLA sent me today..
WAHOO!! Now I just need a rolling road session, and an MOT!
Thank god!
For anyone searching and wanting the info, the process of getting an incorrectly registered kit properly registered was as follows:
Thanks for all the help and advice guys. You lot are great.
WAHOO!! Now I just need a rolling road session, and an MOT!
Thank god!
For anyone searching and wanting the info, the process of getting an incorrectly registered kit properly registered was as follows:
- Contact the DVLA, but letter or going to a DVLA office, explaining that the car was built before SVA regs.
- They'll send an inspector out, who will need to see proof that the car was built before SVA regs and/or used on the road before 1997 (sva regs change date). Could be receipts, MOTs, tax, etc.
- Wait about 2 months for the DVLA Swansea to make their minds up on the given evidence given to them by the inspector.
Thanks for all the help and advice guys. You lot are great.
Altrezia said:
Very very long wait.. but look what the lovely people at the DVLA sent me today..
WAHOO!! Now I just need a rolling road session, and an MOT!
Thank god!
For anyone searching and wanting the info, the process of getting an incorrectly registered kit properly registered was as follows:
Thanks for all the help and advice guys. You lot are great.
Mine looks like that. Except mine is a 'Lightspeed' and has 5900cc. WAHOO!! Now I just need a rolling road session, and an MOT!
Thank god!
For anyone searching and wanting the info, the process of getting an incorrectly registered kit properly registered was as follows:
- Contact the DVLA, but letter or going to a DVLA office, explaining that the car was built before SVA regs.
- They'll send an inspector out, who will need to see proof that the car was built before SVA regs and/or used on the road before 1997 (sva regs change date). Could be receipts, MOTs, tax, etc.
- Wait about 2 months for the DVLA Swansea to make their minds up on the given evidence given to them by the inspector.
Thanks for all the help and advice guys. You lot are great.
This seems to be the most informative site for kit cars registered as the original donor ? As the threads are a bit long in the tooth it might be an idea to 'touch base' with a recent occurance. Bought my splendid BRA 'P' Type Roadster in March and having got it running after a sleep of 20 years, it was time to sort out the V5. Oh dear ! Registered as an MGB GT, said the young lady giving me an insurance quote ! Nope, I said. Long story short, my 'take' is that it needs to be accurate as an insurance company will get a bit tetchy when my rectangular hollow section steel box chassis mangles a nice BMW. They might say, we were actually taking on the risk of a pressed steel rusty tin can, old chap, not something like a Centurion tank !
The error is historic and stems from the habit of bolting fibreglass Falcon bodies onto Ford 10s (I am rather old !) But it is not my fault. You wan't me to pay tax and have an Mot, sort it ! Doom prophets spouting that an IVA will be needed does not help. Why ? IVA is for new vehicles, surely ? (whilst we are on the soap box, how come you can drive a 40 year old 'load of the proverbial' without an Mot or paying car tax and a well enginered kit car is put in the same class as an armoured car or ambulance ? Makes no sense ! The Australians and Kiwis manage with a 'super' Mot, why not us ? We are out of the EU after all !)
Story so far. Luckily the vendor built the car, has photos of it over the years, Mot's and I have photos, as it is now, and the original sales brochure. Get out of that ? Surely the vital question is 'was the vehicle legally on the road prior to SVA' (1998?) My folder should be a 'slam dunk' ? We shall see.
By the way, Paul Jepson (an ex DVLA guru) has retired and suffers ill health. Also, out of 5 'P' types found on line, 3 are still registered at DVLA as MG's !
The error is historic and stems from the habit of bolting fibreglass Falcon bodies onto Ford 10s (I am rather old !) But it is not my fault. You wan't me to pay tax and have an Mot, sort it ! Doom prophets spouting that an IVA will be needed does not help. Why ? IVA is for new vehicles, surely ? (whilst we are on the soap box, how come you can drive a 40 year old 'load of the proverbial' without an Mot or paying car tax and a well enginered kit car is put in the same class as an armoured car or ambulance ? Makes no sense ! The Australians and Kiwis manage with a 'super' Mot, why not us ? We are out of the EU after all !)
Story so far. Luckily the vendor built the car, has photos of it over the years, Mot's and I have photos, as it is now, and the original sales brochure. Get out of that ? Surely the vital question is 'was the vehicle legally on the road prior to SVA' (1998?) My folder should be a 'slam dunk' ? We shall see.
By the way, Paul Jepson (an ex DVLA guru) has retired and suffers ill health. Also, out of 5 'P' types found on line, 3 are still registered at DVLA as MG's !
jimthesail said:
Surely the vital question is 'was the vehicle legally on the road prior to SVA' (1998?)
Do you have a question, or are you just having a whinge? The above quoted is the only thing I could extract?The advice you have clearly been given already - that an IVA may now be necessary to regularise the error - is good. Whether the car was legally on the road prior to SVA is meaningless: there was a period of 'amnesty' at the time, but it's now many years behind us.
As Altrezia has summarised above, the DVLA may amend the registration document on the basis of your evidence, if you present it to them, but it's at their discretion and I wouldn't count on it.
The young lady selling you insurance has approximately the same powers to amend your documentation as I do (i.e. f
k all).If you think our colonial cousins Down Under have it easy, spend some time on the OzClubbies forum: their regulations (known as ADR - Austrailan Design Rules) are MUCH stricter than ours, requiring - among other things - that you appoint an accredited supervising engineer to oversee your build from start to finish, and beam and torsional testing of chassis that most UK kit cars (including, most certainly, your BRA with it's ladder frame chassis) would fail miserably.
Ahh, a 'doom prophet' ! Not too worried about what they 'extract'.
No logic why an IVA will remedy the error, it's clerical not mechanical. Correction, is in fact, an extension of the period of amnesty but to an individual.
(The period of amnesty is their admission that their representatives (Mot station) made errors)
'DVLA may amend', quite right. 'At their discretion', quite right. I do count on them following their own rules which were that an SVA was not required prior to '98. Let that one through and we might find retrospective IVA's for all sorts of reasons.
Insurance young lady sells insurance, obviously. 'Colonial cousins' ???
Whinge ? Nope, i hope for success, if not I will 'gird my loins', 'put best foot forward', 'give myself a slap' and write to my MP putting a case for relaxation
of SVA rules now we are out of the EU ! More Kit Car manufacturers, more jobs, more training, more qualifications. Good stuff !
Are you with us, or against us ?
No logic why an IVA will remedy the error, it's clerical not mechanical. Correction, is in fact, an extension of the period of amnesty but to an individual.
(The period of amnesty is their admission that their representatives (Mot station) made errors)
'DVLA may amend', quite right. 'At their discretion', quite right. I do count on them following their own rules which were that an SVA was not required prior to '98. Let that one through and we might find retrospective IVA's for all sorts of reasons.
Insurance young lady sells insurance, obviously. 'Colonial cousins' ???
Whinge ? Nope, i hope for success, if not I will 'gird my loins', 'put best foot forward', 'give myself a slap' and write to my MP putting a case for relaxation
of SVA rules now we are out of the EU ! More Kit Car manufacturers, more jobs, more training, more qualifications. Good stuff !
Are you with us, or against us ?
The only comment I feel qualified to make:-
You quote " I do count on them following their own rules "
But I (and many here may have observed the same) don't think they have a set of rules which last from one week to the next. If you are lucky or unlucky may just depend on which way the wind is blowing!
You quote " I do count on them following their own rules "
But I (and many here may have observed the same) don't think they have a set of rules which last from one week to the next. If you are lucky or unlucky may just depend on which way the wind is blowing!
jimthesail said:
Whinge ? Nope, i hope for success, if not I will 'gird my loins', 'put best foot forward', 'give myself a slap' and write to my MP putting a case for relaxation
of SVA rules now we are out of the EU !
Good luck with that! The U.K. is already far more relaxed than most of the E.U. When it comes to home built cars and being allowed to use them on the roads. Most can only dream of having a system such as ours.of SVA rules now we are out of the EU !
This topic is pretty unique amongst all the others on pustonheads that are on the forum for the amount of misinformation and rubbish posted, mostly by people trying to con the system I guess.
Even in the early days and falcon shells and Rochdales etc it was an easy, all the way to the late 70,s you got a new req when you registered your kit.
My Phaeton (NCL19V) was registered as a new car just before Q plates came in.
When the Q plates arrived you could still register as a new car if your kit was built with new parts.
You could retain the donor vehicle reg ( if you had a donor and the V5) if you gained enough "points"
Think front suspension was 2 points,rear 2 engine,gearbox,loom etc.
If you had 8 points you could keep the donor reg, but make and model would be changed by DVLA.
No donor v5 or multiple donors you ended up with a Q plate.
This was the time of the kit car explosion and a few people who couldnt be arsed to follow the rules and wanted to save a few quid couldn't be bothered to do that and just used donor vehicle log books
Seen more than 1 Dax cobra that was a jag allegedly.
Same think happened with the Ron Chapman/ locust explosion
Some people just couldn't be arsed
"It's been MOT,d in the past"
An mot tester will test as presented ( or they would until a couple of years ago)
Now it's computerised if you bring a cobra in as a jag and that's what it says on the system a good MOT station won't touch it.
If you take your locost/MK/ Mev for an MOT and it has a Dutton V5 it will get tested as the tester probably won't know the difference.
Try taking your focus in with a BMWreg and see how that one goes !
"Been on the roads 20 years" Yes but not legally, nobody with any of these illegally registered vehicles has ever told their insurance they are insuring one car but its registered as something else, they wouldn't touch you.
Everything is computerised now 10/15 years ago you could tell the insurance company anything,they had no way of checking. They recorded what you told them and worked out the risk, now the reg goes on their system they know all the other details before you give them.
There was an amnesty- yes there was and you have missed it by many years ! Dosent matter how long ago your illegal vehicle was on the road you missed your chance
Even in the early days and falcon shells and Rochdales etc it was an easy, all the way to the late 70,s you got a new req when you registered your kit.
My Phaeton (NCL19V) was registered as a new car just before Q plates came in.
When the Q plates arrived you could still register as a new car if your kit was built with new parts.
You could retain the donor vehicle reg ( if you had a donor and the V5) if you gained enough "points"
Think front suspension was 2 points,rear 2 engine,gearbox,loom etc.
If you had 8 points you could keep the donor reg, but make and model would be changed by DVLA.
No donor v5 or multiple donors you ended up with a Q plate.
This was the time of the kit car explosion and a few people who couldnt be arsed to follow the rules and wanted to save a few quid couldn't be bothered to do that and just used donor vehicle log books
Seen more than 1 Dax cobra that was a jag allegedly.
Same think happened with the Ron Chapman/ locust explosion
Some people just couldn't be arsed
"It's been MOT,d in the past"
An mot tester will test as presented ( or they would until a couple of years ago)
Now it's computerised if you bring a cobra in as a jag and that's what it says on the system a good MOT station won't touch it.
If you take your locost/MK/ Mev for an MOT and it has a Dutton V5 it will get tested as the tester probably won't know the difference.
Try taking your focus in with a BMWreg and see how that one goes !
"Been on the roads 20 years" Yes but not legally, nobody with any of these illegally registered vehicles has ever told their insurance they are insuring one car but its registered as something else, they wouldn't touch you.
Everything is computerised now 10/15 years ago you could tell the insurance company anything,they had no way of checking. They recorded what you told them and worked out the risk, now the reg goes on their system they know all the other details before you give them.
There was an amnesty- yes there was and you have missed it by many years ! Dosent matter how long ago your illegal vehicle was on the road you missed your chance
Quite right in what you say regarding misinformation but think you too have fallen into the trap ?
By the way, I didn't miss the opportunity, the previous owner did. What would you suggest I do, throw
it away ? The IVA is for vehicles less than 10 years old. It has been on the road previous to SVA/IVA
requirements. It is insured correctly as a BRA. It will 'stand' an Mot. I can pay car tax. What is the problem ?
'The government and DVLA are there to do our bidding and keep us safe'. Confusion has occured in the past
when unqualified staff have given information beyond their payscale. Contact the correct department by letter,
'signed for' and keep a copy. Plan 3b is, as the guy said on police advice, run it and await results. I like his attitude
but plan 2b is having insured it correctly, get a 'private' Mot, post a cheque for the correct tax to DVLA and sit back.
I await the result of plan 1a. Bear in mind if it were an actual MGB, as on V5, I would need niether Mot nor car tax.
Does not make any sense ?
By the way, I didn't miss the opportunity, the previous owner did. What would you suggest I do, throw
it away ? The IVA is for vehicles less than 10 years old. It has been on the road previous to SVA/IVA
requirements. It is insured correctly as a BRA. It will 'stand' an Mot. I can pay car tax. What is the problem ?
'The government and DVLA are there to do our bidding and keep us safe'. Confusion has occured in the past
when unqualified staff have given information beyond their payscale. Contact the correct department by letter,
'signed for' and keep a copy. Plan 3b is, as the guy said on police advice, run it and await results. I like his attitude
but plan 2b is having insured it correctly, get a 'private' Mot, post a cheque for the correct tax to DVLA and sit back.
I await the result of plan 1a. Bear in mind if it were an actual MGB, as on V5, I would need niether Mot nor car tax.
Does not make any sense ?
Wow ! Here it is, a new V5 with it listed as a BRA 'P' Type Roadster ! Had a misfire when I received a letter stating that registration was void and I would have to pass an IVA test. Rang DVLA and a charming lady went away and checked. 'Yes, you are right it is a KIT CAR FIRST REGISTERED BEFORE 1998, it will be in post' The department is 'Kits and Rebuilds' with 10 staff and a supervisor who is, I think, 'the knowledge'. Their default position is to void a 'rebuild' so be careful you do not burn your bridges. The secret is documentation that proves it was on road; Mot and tax discs - good, have heard of a date stamped photo being used otherwise an 'inspector calls' ! Then off to a post office, pick a biggish one, and got it cahged to Historic status; yipee !
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