Discussion
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
at risk of getting told-off for a cross-posting... i thought this may be of interest..!
at risk of getting told-off for a cross-posting... i thought this may be of interest..!
briSk said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
at risk of getting told-off for a cross-posting... i thought this may be of interest..!
we did mention something similar on the kitcar design thread, but I like to think that future kitcars could become more interesting, and fill a niche with alternative powerplants.at risk of getting told-off for a cross-posting... i thought this may be of interest..!
Different engines, from the most frugal, to alternative powered ones, electric/hybrid and so on.
A modern 1.0L.engine on a light locost seven chassis could give pretty good gas mileage, and still be fun.
Aerodynamics would start to interfere over 80mph though.......
Better aerodynamics on that chassis could improve greatly the outcome, but you could also consider a mid-engine setups.
Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 9th January 13:15
fuoriserie said:
Aerodynamics would start to interfere over 80mph though.......
Better aerodynamics on that chassis could improve greatly the outcome, but you could also consider a mid-engine setups.
Something like the Westfield Eleven would definitely be the way to go (preferably in 'single seat' form). The original Lotus Eleven was recorded at 132mph using an 1100cc engine of about 100bhp back in the 1950's, though I suspect the fuel economy wasn't up to much, on carburettors!Better aerodynamics on that chassis could improve greatly the outcome, but you could also consider a mid-engine setups.
In 2005 the 1.4 K Series in the Costin Roadster achieved 108 miles on 10 litres of fuel, this was a mixture of driving styles on motorways A and B roads.
The 1.4 K series is a good little engine for these type of projects. Plenty of them about as well. It produced about 90 BHP on the rolling road. Car weighed in at 550kgs.
I think more kit cars will start to look at the Aero aspect of the design, also getting the weight down requires quite a bit of work.
The 1.4 K series is a good little engine for these type of projects. Plenty of them about as well. It produced about 90 BHP on the rolling road. Car weighed in at 550kgs.
I think more kit cars will start to look at the Aero aspect of the design, also getting the weight down requires quite a bit of work.
Joe T said:
...1.4 K Series in the Costin Roadster achieved 108 miles on 10 litres of fuel, this was a mixture of driving styles on motorways A and B roads.
Not bad, but not quite 50mpg? That's only a little better than I used to get with my carburettored Mini (which was thrashed mercilessly, wherever it went) or, indeed, the huge, comfy Toyota Avensis Diesel I had as a company car a couple of years ago. We ought to be able to do better than that! 
To be fair, the open cockpit on the Costin will completely wreck the aerodynamics, no matter how smooth the rest of the shell is! It needs a bubble fairing for the driver and a rigid tonneau to cover the passenger space...
Yep your right, the original design has a few improvements over that car, headlight covers, full windscreen. Also a Lower seating position. On the prototype there was a roof canopy also.
We have also reduced the weight of the body during our development, although the windscreen and surround will bring that back up (If I ever get it finished!!)
But thought it a reasonable representation of what a bog atandard 1.4K series will do real world figures. Theres always room for improvement..
We have also reduced the weight of the body during our development, although the windscreen and surround will bring that back up (If I ever get it finished!!)
But thought it a reasonable representation of what a bog atandard 1.4K series will do real world figures. Theres always room for improvement..
Yes, for a 1.4 petrol engine, it's good.
But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks), if you're being serious about an Eco car, surely these days you'd want to think about bio diesel. Ex-girlfriend's Ibiza FR (130bhp 1.9 litre TDi) used to routinely return 55mpg, and that's in a normal, heavy, 5-door compact hatchback with air conditioning, electric everything and unexceptional aerodynamics.
The Cupra version of the same car gives 160bhp from a 1.9 TDi (ie. 84 bhp/litre), so a 1.2 TDi in a modern, ultra-light streamliner ought to be able to give similar performance to the original Eleven (say 130mph and 7.5 sec. to 60), whilst returning >85mpg on 'green' fuel?
Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...
ETA: I know the acceleration is probably dismal, but what top speed and economy does Friend Wood get out of Tryane II? IIRC, he could top the ton and it must be over 60+mpg from what, 20-odd horsepower?
But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks), if you're being serious about an Eco car, surely these days you'd want to think about bio diesel. Ex-girlfriend's Ibiza FR (130bhp 1.9 litre TDi) used to routinely return 55mpg, and that's in a normal, heavy, 5-door compact hatchback with air conditioning, electric everything and unexceptional aerodynamics.
The Cupra version of the same car gives 160bhp from a 1.9 TDi (ie. 84 bhp/litre), so a 1.2 TDi in a modern, ultra-light streamliner ought to be able to give similar performance to the original Eleven (say 130mph and 7.5 sec. to 60), whilst returning >85mpg on 'green' fuel?
Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...
ETA: I know the acceleration is probably dismal, but what top speed and economy does Friend Wood get out of Tryane II? IIRC, he could top the ton and it must be over 60+mpg from what, 20-odd horsepower?
Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 9th January 22:48
Sam_68 said:
Yes, for a 1.4 petrol engine, it's good.
But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks
Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...
I actually think it to be a very interesting niche, a modern lightweight Turbodiesel, with E85, on a streamlined modern update of the lotus Eleven could be a nice project to work on.But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks
Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...
Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 9th January 22:48
You could still keep the fun and still run around on track days, without worrying about your cash being drained by the rise of fuel.
I'ts almost a given that fuel prices in the future are going to go up, more than down, so a kitcar that can still be fun and stylish, without it being thirsty would be a nice proposition to work on.......
Preferred kitcar chassis to work on ?
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:21
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:22
Thats a nice design, lots of little features like the wheel spats, Kam tail, even the rear arches give it a retro look.
I did here of a project using smart car running gear, I think it was Jevron looking at a fibreglass chassis tub.
In the states they are starting to look at Ally Honeycomb for some of these sorts of projects.
My only concern with future projects is how much further the electrics/electronics are going in all these modern engines, at the moment its still a bit of work synching up all the devices, but when you hear about some of the stuff being developed it makes you wonder how long you will be able to transplant stuff from production cars.
I did here of a project using smart car running gear, I think it was Jevron looking at a fibreglass chassis tub.
In the states they are starting to look at Ally Honeycomb for some of these sorts of projects.
My only concern with future projects is how much further the electrics/electronics are going in all these modern engines, at the moment its still a bit of work synching up all the devices, but when you hear about some of the stuff being developed it makes you wonder how long you will be able to transplant stuff from production cars.
Joe T said:
Thats a nice design, lots of little features like the wheel spats, Kam tail, even the rear arches give it a retro look.
I did here of a project using smart car running gear, I think it was Jevron looking at a fibreglass chassis tub.
In the states they are starting to look at Ally Honeycomb for some of these sorts of projects.
My only concern with future projects is how much further the electrics/electronics are going in all these modern engines, at the moment its still a bit of work synching up all the devices, but when you hear about some of the stuff being developed it makes you wonder how long you will be able to transplant stuff from production cars.
Thanks Joe,I did here of a project using smart car running gear, I think it was Jevron looking at a fibreglass chassis tub.
In the states they are starting to look at Ally Honeycomb for some of these sorts of projects.
My only concern with future projects is how much further the electrics/electronics are going in all these modern engines, at the moment its still a bit of work synching up all the devices, but when you hear about some of the stuff being developed it makes you wonder how long you will be able to transplant stuff from production cars.
was thinking about something simple with a retro design influence.
Michalak C7 is manufacturing a mid-engine chassis with a smart engine.....or we could try the Sylva R1ot chassis for a middy ?.
As a seven inspired chassis, I wouldn't mind the new body laying over the Raw Striker chassis....
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th January 08:33
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th January 08:34
Not that it would be particularly difficult, but I'd guess a change in gear ratios or atleast an over-drive in top would be worth it?
Smart engine might be quite a good base if you could do away or improve the gearbox. How about one of the Fiat FIRE engines? Quite economical and should be quite a large amount available cheaply..
Always going to be difficult to appeal to non-Kit enthusiasts unless you can make it look professional at a reasonable price - I'd expect it'd need to be less than £10k with new parts in a nice looking body for it to work.
Smart engine might be quite a good base if you could do away or improve the gearbox. How about one of the Fiat FIRE engines? Quite economical and should be quite a large amount available cheaply..
Always going to be difficult to appeal to non-Kit enthusiasts unless you can make it look professional at a reasonable price - I'd expect it'd need to be less than £10k with new parts in a nice looking body for it to work.
Gompo said:
How about one of the Fiat FIRE engines? Quite economical and should be quite a large amount available cheaply..
Always going to be difficult to appeal to non-Kit enthusiasts unless you can make it look professional at a reasonable price - I'd expect it'd need to be less than £10k with new parts in a nice looking body for it to work.
I agree with you.....the Fiat fire engine could be a very interesting option, just need the chassis for it.....Always going to be difficult to appeal to non-Kit enthusiasts unless you can make it look professional at a reasonable price - I'd expect it'd need to be less than £10k with new parts in a nice looking body for it to work.
Hi Italo, you could have a look at www.smartsrus.com/srus/zonta.htm ,it may look familiar but this is a Smart car based turnkey only car. It has ABS, traction control and weighs about the same as a fag packet.I reckon it would be good for 60mpg as its alot lighter than the smart, regards Stuart
P.S put my R3 project on ebay today under "kit car"
I did here of a project using smart car running gear, I think it was Jevron looking at a fibreglass chassis tub.
Michalak C7 is manufacturing a mid-engine chassis with a smart engine.....or we could try the Sylva R1ot chassis for a middy ?.
As a seven inspired chassis, I wouldn't mind the new body laying over the Raw Striker chassis....
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th January 08:33
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th January 08:34
[/quote]
fuoriserie said:
Sam_68 said:
Yes, for a 1.4 petrol engine, it's good.
But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks
Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...
I actually think it to be a very interesting niche, a modern lightweight Turbodiesel, with E85, on a streamlined modern update of the lotus Eleven could be a nice project to work on.But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks
Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...
Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 9th January 22:48
You could still keep the fun and still run around on track days, without worrying about your cash being drained by the rise of fuel.
I'ts almost a given that fuel prices in the future are going to go up, more than down, so a kitcar that can still be fun and stylish, without it being thirsty would be a nice proposition to work on.......
Preferred kitcar chassis to work on ?
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:21
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:22
On the subject of your quick sketches; I realise that you have key styling values that you feel necessary to incorporate on your designs but I feel that in this instance, you need to start with a clean sheet. Think about minimising frontal area and drag in plan. Does it need four wheels? How many people are likley to be in it 90% of the time. Unless you cleverley better what exists already then your ideas are nothing more than styling sketches. The really difficult bit is doing all of these things and then making people fall in love with it. Tick all the boxes.
stig mills said:
Hi Italo, you could have a look at www.smartsrus.com/srus/zonta.htm ,it may look familiar but this is a Smart car based turnkey only car. It has ABS, traction control and weighs about the same as a fag packet.I reckon it would be good for 60mpg as its alot lighter than the smart, regards Stuart
P.S put my R3 project on ebay today under "kit car"
I did here of a project using smart car running gear, I think it was Jevron looking at a fibreglass chassis tub.
Michalak C7 is manufacturing a mid-engine chassis with a smart engine.....or we could try the Sylva R1ot chassis for a middy ?.
As a seven inspired chassis, I wouldn't mind the new body laying over the Raw Striker chassis....
P.S put my R3 project on ebay today under "kit car"
I did here of a project using smart car running gear, I think it was Jevron looking at a fibreglass chassis tub.
Michalak C7 is manufacturing a mid-engine chassis with a smart engine.....or we could try the Sylva R1ot chassis for a middy ?.
As a seven inspired chassis, I wouldn't mind the new body laying over the Raw Striker chassis....
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th January 08:33
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th January 08:34
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