eco cars

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Discussion

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
hoopdiddy07 said:
fuoriserie said:
Sam_68 said:
Yes, for a 1.4 petrol engine, it's good.

But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks

Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...

Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 9th January 22:48
I actually think it to be a very interesting niche, a modern lightweight Turbodiesel, with E85, on a streamlined modern update of the lotus Eleven could be a nice project to work on.

You could still keep the fun and still run around on track days, without worrying about your cash being drained by the rise of fuel.

I'ts almost a given that fuel prices in the future are going to go up, more than down, so a kitcar that can still be fun and stylish, without it being thirsty would be a nice proposition to work on.......

Preferred kitcar chassis to work on ?

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:21


Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:22
On the subject of your quick sketches; I realise that you have key styling values that you feel necessary to incorporate on your designs but I feel that in this instance, you need to start with a clean sheet. Think about minimising frontal area and drag in plan. Does it need four wheels? How many people are likley to be in it 90% of the time. Unless you cleverley better what exists already then your ideas are nothing more than styling sketches. The really difficult bit is doing all of these things and then making people fall in love with it. Tick all the boxes.
Hi Graja,

very good points raised and i will try to answer...
I agree with you that starting with a clean sheet of paper on any design is a plus, and given a good design brief with a set budget, would get the potential kitcar manufacture a good product.

This option, most of the time never happens, because this is a niche industry, with very limited money to invest on such projects, and the return on investment is too high of a risk for a small manufacture .

Most of the time you have a set or exhisting chassis, that can be modified somewhat to accept a different powerplant, and create a new body to cloth it with.

A safe bet for a small kitcar manufacturer would always be to invest into a known replica design, or something that has retro design overtones, because it ticks nostalgia in most of us.

Avantgarde or futuristic design is very rare, because most of the potential customers grew up with certain design influences, and are conservative in their buying habits.

If more than 70% of kits are seven clones and Cobras, at least 40yr old designs!!, there is a reason.

It would give the jitters to any new kitcar manufacture to venture in unknow territory, with a modern concept or design.

A few are trying, and admire their risk taking, and really hope they succed, because it would open up a new and future niche market.

Adrenaline, Mev, SDV, Toniq and a few others not mentioned here, are trying to come up with new products, and are trying to fill in niches not yet filled by others....

They are paving the way for the future kitcar niche market, and risking on new creative design, and a few others are on the line, but the market will decide if they are going to be successfull and will have the resouces to venture into more radical designs, in their future model planning..




Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 16th January 08:42

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
hoopdiddy07 said:
fuoriserie said:
Sam_68 said:
Yes, for a 1.4 petrol engine, it's good.

But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks

Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...

Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 9th January 22:48
I actually think it to be a very interesting niche, a modern lightweight Turbodiesel, with E85, on a streamlined modern update of the lotus Eleven could be a nice project to work on.

You could still keep the fun and still run around on track days, without worrying about your cash being drained by the rise of fuel.

I'ts almost a given that fuel prices in the future are going to go up, more than down, so a kitcar that can still be fun and stylish, without it being thirsty would be a nice proposition to work on.......

Preferred kitcar chassis to work on ?

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:21


Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:22
Nothing niche about eco cars. The problem is that nobody currently offers a green vehicle that takes advatage of government incentives, is cheap to buy and more importantly, does'nt look like noddy's car. The market is waiting and vast. I admire your passion for design fuoriserie what do you do for a living?

On the subject of your quick sketches; I realise that you have key styling values that you feel necessary to incorporate on your designs but I feel that in this instance, you need to start with a clean sheet. Think about minimising frontal area and drag in plan. Does it need four wheels? How many people are likley to be in it 90% of the time. Unless you cleverley better what exists already then your ideas are nothing more than styling sketches. .
I didn't answer this part.......

When I was younger ( many moons ago...) I worked as a car and product designer......, now that I'm old and wiser.biggrin, I work in marketing, it pays the bills and gets me to work part-time on car design project without having the pressure to bring home the bacon every month!!!

We could come with a very creative design brief for this project, but do you have an investor with a load full of cash ?, we're talking about a few million pounds to come up with a radical, creative and innovative design ?

In the last few years i've been part of a few interesting design projects on a consulting basis,in Italy and the UK,( sportscar designs), but most failed when the cost of manufacturing was factored in the development, and most of the time the numbers didn't add up.....

Sportscar or kitcar manufacturing is very difficult in this very competitive car world, and most of the time it's a losing battle...

I just have fun, with a few rough sketches on paper.....and from time to time I get to work on a few fun cardesign projects, but I don't have to risk a business or livelihood on them.

I admire and respect the people that work in the kitcar industry, because they work in a very tough environment, and sometimes they are up against prejudice and derision..

Cheers
Italo






Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 16th January 09:08


Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 16th January 09:21

stig mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
Italo, your going to have to put a number in the corner of your sketches for me, you have done so many I'm getting confused!
Do like this one (12th Jan) Having gone through the experience of putting my R2 in the wind tunnel I think your design looks fairly drag co-efficient. A little too rounded for my personal taste but I get it. A kind of modern blast from the past maybe.
Keep up the great work, I find your posts to be the most interesting. Regards Stuart
fuoriserie said:
nothing on TV to watch tonight...biggrin.....a very rough sketch

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
stig mills said:
Hi Italo, you could have a look at www.smartsrus.com/srus/zonta.htm ,it may look familiar but this is a Smart car based turnkey only car. It has ABS, traction control and weighs about the same as a fag packet.I reckon it would be good for 60mpg as its alot lighter than the smart, regards Stuart
P.S put my R3 project on ebay today under "kit car"

I did here of a project using smart car running gear, I think it was Jevron looking at a fibreglass chassis tub.

Michalak C7 is manufacturing a mid-engine chassis with a smart engine.....or we could try the Sylva R1ot chassis for a middy ?.

As a seven inspired chassis, I wouldn't mind the new body laying over the Raw Striker chassis....smile

Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th January 08:33


Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th January 08:34
Hi Stuart,
That looks like a very interesting concept, is it going to be available as a kit in the future ? and if Smart comes up with the electric hybrid engine, you have a nice niche to fill.....

Cheers
Italo

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
stig mills said:
Italo, your going to have to put a number in the corner of your sketches for me, you have done so many I'm getting confused!
Do like this one (12th Jan) Having gone through the experience of putting my R2 in the wind tunnel I think your design looks fairly drag co-efficient. A little too rounded for my personal taste but I get it. A kind of modern blast from the past maybe.
Keep up the great work, I find your posts to be the most interesting. Regards Stuart
fuoriserie said:
nothing on TV to watch tonight...biggrin.....a very rough sketch

Stuart.....thanks.....smile
Will number the sketches in the future

Cheers
Italo

stig mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
I am working on an an electric powered R2 at the moment. The wind tunnel tests at Mira showed us that it only takes 27kw to propel it to 100mph. The motor I'm using is a poly phase AC unit that has been specially developed for the task. It has huge amounts of low RPM torque so acceleration will be brisk. It operates at 50rpm per volt and is almost 100% efficient at 5000rpm. Peak HP not tested yet but I'm going to check out the torque on a dyno soon. The characteristics of the motor allow it to drive direct to the diff so no losses via a tranny. I am using Lithium polymer battery chemistry due to there light weight. The whole car inc 144v 90amp hour cells is 560kgs and so we are hoping for excellent performance. It wont be a locost though as the motor was nearly 4k and the cells nearly 20k but if anyones interested they are welcome to emial me on info@mevltd.co.uk and I will keep them posted on further developments. Not expecting to sell them but I do enjoy a challenge. Stuart

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

195 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
stig mills said:
I am working on an an electric powered R2 at the moment. The wind tunnel tests at Mira showed us that it only takes 27kw to propel it to 100mph. The motor I'm using is a poly phase AC unit that has been specially developed for the task. It has huge amounts of low RPM torque so acceleration will be brisk. It operates at 50rpm per volt and is almost 100% efficient at 5000rpm. Peak HP not tested yet but I'm going to check out the torque on a dyno soon. The characteristics of the motor allow it to drive direct to the diff so no losses via a tranny. I am using Lithium polymer battery chemistry due to there light weight. The whole car inc 144v 90amp hour cells is 560kgs and so we are hoping for excellent performance. It wont be a locost though as the motor was nearly 4k and the cells nearly 20k but if anyones interested they are welcome to emial me on info@mevltd.co.uk and I will keep them posted on further developments. Not expecting to sell them but I do enjoy a challenge. Stuart
What performance and range are you expecting Stuart?

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

195 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
fuoriserie said:
hoopdiddy07 said:
fuoriserie said:
Sam_68 said:
Yes, for a 1.4 petrol engine, it's good.

But (at risk of being tarred and feathered by the PistonHeads rednecks

Sadly, I doubt that many people on here would care...

Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 9th January 22:48
I actually think it to be a very interesting niche, a modern lightweight Turbodiesel, with E85, on a streamlined modern update of the lotus Eleven could be a nice project to work on.

You could still keep the fun and still run around on track days, without worrying about your cash being drained by the rise of fuel.

I'ts almost a given that fuel prices in the future are going to go up, more than down, so a kitcar that can still be fun and stylish, without it being thirsty would be a nice proposition to work on.......

Preferred kitcar chassis to work on ?

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:21


Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th January 08:22
Nothing niche about eco cars. The problem is that nobody currently offers a green vehicle that takes advatage of government incentives, is cheap to buy and more importantly, does'nt look like noddy's car. The market is waiting and vast. I admire your passion for design fuoriserie what do you do for a living?

On the subject of your quick sketches; I realise that you have key styling values that you feel necessary to incorporate on your designs but I feel that in this instance, you need to start with a clean sheet. Think about minimising frontal area and drag in plan. Does it need four wheels? How many people are likley to be in it 90% of the time. Unless you cleverley better what exists already then your ideas are nothing more than styling sketches. .
I didn't answer this part.......

When I was younger ( many moons ago...) I worked as a car and product designer......, now that I'm old and wiser.biggrin, I work in marketing, it pays the bills and gets me to work part-time on car design project without having the pressure to bring home the bacon every month!!!

We could come with a very creative design brief for this project, but do you have an investor with a load full of cash ?, we're talking about a few million pounds to come up with a radical, creative and innovative design ?

In the last few years i've been part of a few interesting design projects on a consulting basis,in Italy and the UK,( sportscar designs), but most failed when the cost of manufacturing was factored in the development, and most of the time the numbers didn't add up.....

Sportscar or kitcar manufacturing is very difficult in this very competitive car world, and most of the time it's a losing battle...

I just have fun, with a few rough sketches on paper.....and from time to time I get to work on a few fun cardesign projects, but I don't have to risk a business or livelihood on them.

I admire and respect the people that work in the kitcar industry, because they work in a very tough environment, and sometimes they are up against prejudice and derision..

Cheers
Italo



Who did you design for back in the day. I'll come clean: my company is developing an environmentally sensitive vehicle and your take on this would be interestintg to see. It's a live project and I am a vehicle designer myself so have already produced computer models etc. Your hobby of quickly sketching rough ideas is a way of compairng my efforts. The fact that you do it for free on these pages is of additional benefit.

Don't worry about the cash. I've been doing this a long time and am well aware of how much it costs and how to do it cheaply. I'll have to differ with you about the respect you have for most producers of kit cars. IMHO most of them haven't been to university to study their subject, they didn't spend three years before that developing their skills in 3D and 2D art and design and they definatley haven't spent ten years making a living as a car designer.

I don't doubt the skill, balls and ambition of designers of kit cars, in fact I too have a great deal of respect for them. In fact, I don't even want to get into a conversation about all of that, I just would like to see how you would deal with the following brief.

Single seat, minimal frontal area. Ultra lighweight, electric, fun and very sexy commuter vehicle using relativley inexpensive technology and compensating for this with clever design that achieves the above to an extent that it is still top of class. Must be so sexy and unique that it results in a media storm and thus, self premotes itself. Your marketing background will be of considerable benifit here.

stig mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Wednesday 16th January 2008
quotequote all
Experimenting with 2 types of Li, with phosphate and polymer, consumption is in the 200w/h bracket at cruise and max motor rpm at full volts produces 70 mph. Its early days yet but the battery manufacturers are keen to the extent that I have not been asked for pennies yet so they must feel its got potential. BMS experts are essential for Li and I am guided here by the cell manufacturers. Controller wise we have introduced current limitation to protect its self and to save hammering the cells. Pick up at 250amps is fantastic but seriously reduces the range. Of course with an AC drive its easy to extract power under over-run and braking so regen is programmed in.
The Zonta by the way is intended to be a modern take on the 7 theme with an economical twist. Your comments were a little harsh but no offence taken. Please be careful though as you may offend Zonta owners. Give me a ring or keep a check on the "Battery Vehicle Society" forum to check progress 01623 655522
Regards Stuart

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
[quote=hoopdiddy07


I don't doubt the skill, balls and ambition of designers of kit cars, in fact I too have a great deal of respect for them. In fact, I don't even want to get into a conversation about all of that, I just would like to see how you would deal with the following brief.

Single seat, minimal frontal area. Ultra lighweight, electric, fun and very sexy commuter vehicle using relativley inexpensive technology and compensating for this with clever design that achieves the above to an extent that it is still top of class. Must be so sexy and unique that it results in a media storm and thus, self premotes itself. Your marketing background will be of considerable benifit here.
[/quote]


A very nice design brief......and a tall order to achieve with those set parameters....

Must it be a 4 wheeler or 3 wheeler ? what type of manufacturing technology are you considering? are you considering vacum forming for the body or a more low tech manufacturing process?

Project cost and numbers produced? price?
What would you consider inexpensive technology ? electric motor ? batteries and/or controler systems?

I like the challenge........and don't mind showing a few sketches on PH for fun and free,...... but I still do it on a part-time consulting basis for cash.....smile

Will see what I can come up with.....
Cheers
Italo



Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 17th January 08:56

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

195 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
fuoriserie said:
[quote=hoopdiddy07


I don't doubt the skill, balls and ambition of designers of kit cars, in fact I too have a great deal of respect for them. In fact, I don't even want to get into a conversation about all of that, I just would like to see how you would deal with the following brief.

Single seat, minimal frontal area. Ultra lighweight, electric, fun and very sexy commuter vehicle using relativley inexpensive technology and compensating for this with clever design that achieves the above to an extent that it is still top of class. Must be so sexy and unique that it results in a media storm and thus, self premotes itself. Your marketing background will be of considerable benifit here.
A very nice design brief......and a tall order to achieve with those set parameters....

Must it be a 4 wheeler or 3 wheeler ? what type of manufacturing technology are you considering? are you considering vacum forming for the body or a more low tech manufacturing process?

Project cost and numbers produced? price?
What would you consider inexpensive technology ? electric motor ? batteries and/or controler systems?

I like the challenge........and don't mind showing a few sketches on PH for fun and free,...... but I still do it on a part-time consulting basis for cash.....smile

Will see what I can come up with.....
Cheers
Italo


The retail price for the car needs to be no more than 12K. Assume that around 4K is to be spent on the pre-preg glass composite monocoque tub. I personaaly think that two wheels at the front with one behind is the most simple, lightweight option. It also offers greater scope to keep drag low. Another major cost saver is to eliminate the glasshouse. I have some ideas on how to do this whilst still offering weather protection. Intended market is the young commuting buisness man who is style concious but sick and tired of being sweated on in the commute into London or where ever. Range needs to be around 55 miles and top speed 55mph.

I look forward to seeing your thoughts!

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

195 months

Thursday 17th January 2008
quotequote all
stig mills said:
Experimenting with 2 types of Li, with phosphate and polymer, consumption is in the 200w/h bracket at cruise and max motor rpm at full volts produces 70 mph. Its early days yet but the battery manufacturers are keen to the extent that I have not been asked for pennies yet so they must feel its got potential. BMS experts are essential for Li and I am guided here by the cell manufacturers. Controller wise we have introduced current limitation to protect its self and to save hammering the cells. Pick up at 250amps is fantastic but seriously reduces the range. Of course with an AC drive its easy to extract power under over-run and braking so regen is programmed in.
The Zonta by the way is intended to be a modern take on the 7 theme with an economical twist. Your comments were a little harsh but no offence taken. Please be careful though as you may offend Zonta owners. Give me a ring or keep a check on the "Battery Vehicle Society" forum to check progress 01623 655522
Regards Stuart
Appologies for the harsh comments, I'ts an honest opinion though that I am pretty well qualified to give. Having been on your website I can commend you on your seven style car. It has a great stance. You obviously know your stuff, how much additional range could you gain by reducing weight to 250kgs with your current technology?

In fact, I'll give you a call over the next couple of weeks when I'm next on buisness in your area. You can bop me on the nose for my comments and maybe there are buisness opportunities we can discuss.

Edited by hoopdiddy07 on Thursday 17th January 20:28

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Friday 18th January 2008
quotequote all
hoopdiddy07 said:
fuoriserie said:
[quote=hoopdiddy07


I don't doubt the skill, balls and ambition of designers of kit cars, in fact I too have a great deal of respect for them. In fact, I don't even want to get into a conversation about all of that, I just would like to see how you would deal with the following brief.

Single seat, minimal frontal area. Ultra lighweight, electric, fun and very sexy commuter vehicle using relativley inexpensive technology and compensating for this with clever design that achieves the above to an extent that it is still top of class. Must be so sexy and unique that it results in a media storm and thus, self premotes itself. Your marketing background will be of considerable benifit here.
A very nice design brief......and a tall order to achieve with those set parameters....

Must it be a 4 wheeler or 3 wheeler ? what type of manufacturing technology are you considering? are you considering vacum forming for the body or a more low tech manufacturing process?

Project cost and numbers produced? price?
What would you consider inexpensive technology ? electric motor ? batteries and/or controler systems?

I like the challenge........and don't mind showing a few sketches on PH for fun and free,...... but I still do it on a part-time consulting basis for cash.....smile

Will see what I can come up with.....
Cheers
Italo


The retail price for the car needs to be no more than 12K. Assume that around 4K is to be spent on the pre-preg glass composite monocoque tub. I personaaly think that two wheels at the front with one behind is the most simple, lightweight option. It also offers greater scope to keep drag low. Another major cost saver is to eliminate the glasshouse. I have some ideas on how to do this whilst still offering weather protection. Intended market is the young commuting buisness man who is style concious but sick and tired of being sweated on in the commute into London or where ever. Range needs to be around 55 miles and top speed 55mph.

I look forward to seeing your thoughts!
lightweight 3wheeler, single seater.have you thought about hybrid powerplant instead of pure electric?

Petrol/electric engines or Petrol/hydrogen ?, piaggio has developed for its scooters these type of engine options, and the MP3 basculating 3wheeler ( my prefered choice for my design sketches...), will be offered in 2009 with these options.

check this website for info :
http://www.engines.piaggio.com/_vti_g2_nwArt.asp?r...

Will work a few roughs over the weekend....

Italo


Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 18th January 11:13

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

195 months

Friday 18th January 2008
quotequote all
A pure electric vehicle is much cheaper to develop (assuming low tech) and allows the use of hub motors. This offers greater scope for optimising drag. It is my personal belief that electric vehicles will ultimately dominate the market as the technology becomes even more efficient and inexpensive. Hybrids are a bit of a compromise imho, they are overcomplicated and a stop gap to ensure an economic meltdown doesn't occur through the overnight demise of fossil fuels. This is why the brief states low drag and ultra lightweight. The opportunity is to developed a very focused low tech ev, that excels in terms of range and performance because of what it hasn't got.

That said, I wasn't aware of the link and will give it some thought. Thanks for that.


Edited by hoopdiddy07 on Friday 18th January 20:04

stig mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Saturday 19th January 2008
quotequote all
You can see from my previous replies that I am quite happy to share details of what I am developing. One reason is possibly to help others with similar ideas and thus encourage the use of EV's. Perhaps others could share their own ideas? I have been toying with the idea of building a 3 wheeler city ev for some time. I would liken my idea to a modern BMW Isetta. Aero dyamically speaking a more streamlined design would have one wheel at the front and 2 at the rear. Then you would need a diff though thus adding weight. A hub motor could drive the single front wheel but I have been quoted £2500 by PML flightlink plus £1700 for a controller. I used a wheel motor on the back of my scooter conversion but thats only 1500watts (2HP)although they are only £600. I also blew a couple of IGBT's at £110 each but now use 20p fet's in series to control it.
Two wheel motors on the rear is an option but more expensive than a single larger motor.
I would prefer the cheaper and more stable option of 2 wheels up front and a motor driving the single rear via a reduction box. 250kgs was mentioned above but thats not realistic as the Li-Ion pack will be over 150kgs. I believe 2 seats would ensure it doesnt look like a disabled vehicle. I was experimenting with 50mm alloy tube producing long curves over the top running front to back. I would love to see any ideas you may have Italo. Regards Stuart

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Saturday 19th January 2008
quotequote all
hoopdiddy07 said:
A Hybrids are a bit of a compromise imho, they are overcomplicated and a stop gap to ensure an economic meltdown doesn't occur through the overnight demise of fossil fuels. This is why the brief states low drag and ultra lightweight. The opportunity is to developed a very focused low tech ev, that excels in terms of range and performance because of what it hasn't got.



Edited by hoopdiddy07 on Friday 18th January 20:04
I agree with you hybrids are a stop gap solution, but I'm not sure the potential client is still ready to give up the freedom of having a vehicle that gives a better range, and the hassle of a last minute plug-in recharge....

If it's hybrid you could use both fuels, and if one runs out the other can still take you back home.
We shouldn't under estimate the value of the potential of two different energy sources supplying motive power to the vehicle..

Woking on the the sketches......

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Saturday 19th January 2008
quotequote all
stig mills said:
You can see from my previous replies that I am quite happy to share details of what I am developing. One reason is possibly to help others with similar ideas and thus encourage the use of EV's. Perhaps others could share their own ideas? I have been toying with the idea of building a 3 wheeler city ev for some time. I would liken my idea to a modern BMW Isetta. I would love to see any ideas you may have Italo. Regards Stuart
Stuart,
I like the concept.......will see what i can do....smile

FlossyThePig

4,083 posts

242 months

Saturday 19th January 2008
quotequote all
fuoriserie said:
stig mills said:
You can see from my previous replies that I am quite happy to share details of what I am developing. One reason is possibly to help others with similar ideas and thus encourage the use of EV's. Perhaps others could share their own ideas? I have been toying with the idea of building a 3 wheeler city ev for some time. I would liken my idea to a modern BMW Isetta. I would love to see any ideas you may have Italo. Regards Stuart
Stuart,
I like the concept.......will see what i can do....smile
Have you had a look at some of the teams taking part in the automotive X-prize?

Intrigued by the Aptera and "alé", both three wheelers.

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

195 months

Saturday 19th January 2008
quotequote all
stig mills said:
You can see from my previous replies that I am quite happy to share details of what I am developing. One reason is possibly to help others with similar ideas and thus encourage the use of EV's. Perhaps others could share their own ideas? I have been toying with the idea of building a 3 wheeler city ev for some time. I would liken my idea to a modern BMW Isetta. Aero dyamically speaking a more streamlined design would have one wheel at the front and 2 at the rear. Then you would need a diff though thus adding weight. A hub motor could drive the single front wheel but I have been quoted £2500 by PML flightlink plus £1700 for a controller. I used a wheel motor on the back of my scooter conversion but thats only 1500watts (2HP)although they are only £600. I also blew a couple of IGBT's at £110 each but now use 20p fet's in series to control it.
Two wheel motors on the rear is an option but more expensive than a single larger motor.
I would prefer the cheaper and more stable option of 2 wheels up front and a motor driving the single rear via a reduction box. 250kgs was mentioned above but thats not realistic as the Li-Ion pack will be over 150kgs. I believe 2 seats would ensure it doesnt look like a disabled vehicle. I was experimenting with 50mm alloy tube producing long curves over the top running front to back. I would love to see any ideas you may have Italo. Regards Stuart
I still think the target weight is valid. A composite body incorporating composite springs and uprights with moulded in seat etc would add less than 100kgs. I also disagree that single seaters look like disabled vehicles, this is where the skill of the stylist comes in. Lewis Hamilton didn't look like he was driving a disabled vehicle last season to me.

stig mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Saturday 19th January 2008
quotequote all
Thanx for that, couldnt find "ale" though. Regards Stuart
FlossyThePig said:
fuoriserie said:
stig mills said:
You can see from my previous replies that I am quite happy to share details of what I am developing. One reason is possibly to help others with similar ideas and thus encourage the use of EV's. Perhaps others could share their own ideas? I have been toying with the idea of building a 3 wheeler city ev for some time. I would liken my idea to a modern BMW Isetta. I would love to see any ideas you may have Italo. Regards Stuart
Stuart,
I like the concept.......will see what i can do....smile
Have you had a look at some of the teams taking part in the automotive X-prize?

Intrigued by the Aptera and "alé", both three wheelers.