eco cars

[fuoriserie]

FlossyThePig said:

blitzracing said:

Why does no one look at ethanol as a power source ? We can keep our beloved piston engines (after all 100 years of develpment), and ferment suger beet or even food waste. Its been done at home for years with the most basic equipment, and is totally carbon neutral. Im sure it would cost less than £1.05 a litre to produce on an industrial scale.

Currently production of ethanol for fuel is robbing crops previously used for food (or animal feed) so the cost of eating goes up.

In the case of palm oil (for bio-diesel) the tropical rainforests are being plundered so that can't be considered ecological either.

I know that there is a Japanese plant, that CERN was experimenting with, that is 10 times more efficient than your normal corn/maize or other,to use as ethanol .

Will look up the name of the plant

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 6th February 13:52

[hoopdiddy07]

blitzracing said:

Why does no one look at ethanol as a power source ? We can keep our beloved piston engines (after all 100 years of develpment), and ferment suger beet or even food waste. Its been done at home for years with the most basic equipment, and is totally carbon neutral. Im sure it would cost less than £1.05 a litre to produce on an industrial scale.

The main reason for me is development costs and lack of infrastructure. The first cars made ran on electric and this only changed when the limitations of the batteries became obvious. The technology is very straight forward in terms of installation and it can be readily purchased without some of the red tape you encounter buying new OEM engines. Electricity is potentially completley green, is abundant and we can fill up at home, work and now dedicated free parking bays in London. Times are changing, it seems that attitudes take a long time to change. I think there is a stigma attached to both three wheeled vehicles and electric drive. To be fair, there have been some pretty poor efforts so far.

[Davi]

Just came across this by chance, don't think it's been mentioned yet...



More info HERE


Hmmmm looks might cosy in there! 230cc natural gas engine with tandem 2 seats - tandem being that the driver sits between the legs of the passenger...

Edited by Davi on Wednesday 6th February 20:20

[hoopdiddy07]

ludoZ3 said:

why do you care about aerodynamics if the main (sole?) purpose of the car is city use? @ 20mph aerodynamics doesn't come into play yet I believe.

Aiming for highway capable. 55mph is just about safe I recon when you take hills and headwinds into the equation. Unless the vehicle can do this, I recon that the potential market would be much smaller. Frontal area and drag reduction at these speed are critical in improving the range of the vehicle.

[fuoriserie]

Davi said:

Just came across this by chance, don't think it's been mentioned yet...



More info HERE


Hmmmm looks might cosy in there! 230cc natural gas engine with tandem 2 seats - tandem being that the driver sits between the legs of the passenger...

Edited by Davi on Wednesday 6th February 20:20

A very nice design concept, a mix between the Carver and a 90's Bmw concept 3wheeler, but im not convinced about he tandem seating for such a small engine.....

[Davi]

fuoriserie said:

A very nice design concept, a mix between the Carver and a 90's Bmw concept 3wheeler, but im not convinced about he tandem seating for such a small engine.....

Depends on weight really - mates 30 yr old 150cc vespa will still do a fair lick 2 up! almost double that capacity with the benefits of a modern engine... I think it could possibly surpass our ballpark requirements

[hoopdiddy07]

Although I think it's been designed and styled well, I think they have placed a little too much enthasis on the practical issues and have arrived at a rather predictible conclusion. Leaning vehicles are just gimiky imho, they might add a little fun factor but they also add weight, cost and seasickness when you just want to get home after a hard day in the office. Considering how much money has been spent, they should be a bit further along by now. Has anyone seen the Zap Alais?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnpRCgV7IJo

[Davi]

hoopdiddy07 said:

Although I think it's been designed and styled well, I think they have placed a little too much enthasis on the practical issues and have arrived at a rather predictible conclusion. Leaning vehicles are just gimiky imho, they might add a little fun factor but they also add weight, cost and seasickness when you just want to get home after a hard day in the office. Considering how much money has been spent, they should be a bit further along by now. Has anyone seen the Zap Alais?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnpRCgV7IJo

Totally agree, the main upside to the leaning vehicle is in stability when there is a narrow wheelbase (which they have gone for) but I'd prefer to just see a slightly wider wheelbase! It's not narrow enough as it is to achieve the benefits of a motorcycle, so just through that plan out the window and make it all a lot simpler.

The zap was linked to a few pages back - very nice.

One question - my design used motorcycle wheels to keep it all light - but I'm not finding a great deal of info on sizes. Anyone here know how it works with motorcycle wheels & tyres?

[fuoriserie]

Davi said:

hoopdiddy07 said:

Although I think it's been designed and styled well, I think they have placed a little too much enthasis on the practical issues and have arrived at a rather predictible conclusion. Leaning vehicles are just gimiky imho, they might add a little fun factor but they also add weight, cost and seasickness when you just want to get home after a hard day in the office. Considering how much money has been spent, they should be a bit further along by now. Has anyone seen the Zap Alais?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnpRCgV7IJo

One question - my design used motorcycle wheels to keep it all light - but I'm not finding a great deal of info on sizes. Anyone here know how it works with motorcycle wheels & tyres?

You could consider as a reference the sub3wheeler, its a single seater using motorcycle wheels, 18in.
http://www.sub3wheeler.com/specifications.php

[fuoriserie]

hoopdiddy07 said:

. Has anyone seen the Zap Alais?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnpRCgV7IJo

Lotus Engineering is credited with the design, and does look like a concept similar to the VW Scooter 3wheeler, but with a modern styling.
I looks like a front wheel drice setup though.....but could be mistaken.

I still think that a side by side 2 seater 3wheeler is better than tandem seating like the CLEVER concept...

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 7th February 13:06

[Davi]

fuoriserie said:

I still think that a side by side 2 seater 3wheeler is better than tandem seating like the CLEVER concept...

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 7th February 13:06

Major draw backs are the frontal area and aerodynamics, plus the added instability - if you have tandem / single seat then the seats are over the centreline. If it's only got one passenger in a side by side you're instantly upsetting the balance. (IMO!)

[fuoriserie]

Davi said:

fuoriserie said:

I still think that a side by side 2 seater 3wheeler is better than tandem seating like the CLEVER concept...

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 7th February 13:06

Major draw backs are the frontal area and aerodynamics, plus the added instability - if you have tandem / single seat then the seats are over the centreline. If it's only got one passenger in a side by side you're instantly upsetting the balance. (IMO!)

That is also true....I guess finding the right balance, between the two different design solutions, will always be part of a modern 3wheeler styling.

We don't have this problem, as the ecoracer should be a single seater anyway....

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 7th February 14:00

[fuoriserie]

Has anybody seen the Moonbeam ?, I like the roof opening, very simpe and effective

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/12/09/alt-car-ex...

link to the website

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6omtd/jorysquibb/inde...

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 7th February 21:11

[hoopdiddy07]

fuoriserie said:

Has anybody seen the Moonbeam ?, I like the roof opening, very simpe and effective

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/12/09/alt-car-ex...

link to the website

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6omtd/jorysquibb/inde...

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 7th February 21:11

That is a clever mechanism. A good effort for a homebuild and nice of the bloke to offer the plans for free.

[fuoriserie]

hoopdiddy07 said:

fuoriserie said:

Has anybody seen the Moonbeam ?, I like the roof opening, very simpe and effective

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/12/09/alt-car-ex...

link to the website

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6omtd/jorysquibb/inde...

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 7th February 21:11

That is a clever mechanism. A good effort for a homebuild and nice of the bloke to offer the plans for free.

I agre with you, very clever and simple, and unique in his design efforts.

[fuoriserie]

was looking for the opening mechanism for the canopy, and went back to the Ale' website......interesting that its a front wheel drive 3wheeler with honda v-tec engine

[fuoriserie]

a few more pictures showing the engine...

[fuoriserie]

grandaddy concept design of the Bmw C1.......and the Clever..

Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 11th February 21:05

[fuoriserie]

Was Looking at the RQRiley X3 design.........what do you guy think of it ?

[Davi]

fuoriserie said:

Was Looking at the RQRiley X3 design.........what do you guy think of it ?

So very, very close to being excellent - unfortunately the styling on the front turns it from "oooOOOOhh" to just an "Oh"