Which Kit? Magazine (an attack)
Discussion
Ex-Biker said:
. . . .give something away with the copy.
The idea is, that by getting someone to buy a copy one month because of a freebie, that they will be so interested in the mag they will continue to buy it.
There are 2 options to the freebie:
1. You pay for something to give away. This could be a sticker or one of many other things that people could think are useful.
2. Someone else pays for the freebie. This is obviously of more benefit to you, for a few reasons;
What you need is to get a company like say Demon Tweeks to offer a catalogue with your mag . . .
This is an excellent suggestion (or pair of suggestions).
The situation approximately 6 years ago was that there were 3 magazines. I owned KitCars International (selling approximately 4,000) and Kit Car (selling 6,000) in competition with Fib’s Which Kit? (selling 10,000)
. He was very keen on quoting ranking figures at that time. He now reckons they’re only a guide and highly suspect
.
I sold KCI to Fib’s and in effect gave him 70% of the market. Days after the sale went through, Fib’s arrogance level reached a lofty height. He put the word around that with his ‘control’ of the market he would crush me out of existence. He spoke to me at the Chatham show in early 1998 saying words to the effect that I’d 
ed up KCI 
and it was only a matter of time before I did the same with Kit Car
. What he didn’t know
was that I’d recognized that producing two magazines on the same subject was a pointless task that resulted in duplication of effort and massive inefficiency
, not to mention problems associated with meeting two sets of deadlines
each month. My decision was to sell Fib’s KCI (to give him all those problems
) and to apply all the resources that were applied to two titles onto the one. 
I kid you not, but the sales of kit car increased at the rate of approximately 200 copies per month from Jan 1998 till that August. To give credit to Fib’s, he increased sales of KCI as well. BOTH detracting from Which Kit? sales. The sales of the August 1998 issues of Which Kit? were equal to those of Kit Car. Fib’s was bloody furious
and was ‘phoning me almost every day with some trivial complaint (you sold x ad too cheap, you used y copy w/o permission, etc, etc). Then the bomb. September issue contained a (purported) readers letter. Filby responded with a warning to readers to the effect that Sumo’s weren’t strong enough to take Chevy power. The rest is history. I sued. Peter made harsher accusations, refused advertising, show attendance. I sued again. I spent almost nothing because of DIY advocacy, whilst Peter spent well, well over £100,000 on solicitors and briefs, only to apologize in the VERY BITTER end. Occh!!!, I felt another pin go in my effigy
. 
Back to 1998. Irrespective as to our personal and legal problems, the magazine circulation war continued. KCI went pop at the end of 1999 and the other two titles continued to slug it out. Kit Car was genuinely picking up extra support every month
and Which Kit? was loosing to the same extent. I don’t think I’d be exaggerating to say that every set of figures showed Which Kit? falling 20ish places and Kit Car climbing 20ish places. This is a bally long post, so I’ll cut it there, give Peter opportunity to buy a new box of pins, you opportunity to post observations and then I’ll post again, but dealing with HOW I achieved what I achieved using some of the techniques suggested by Mark
. Den
. 
I recieved my free issue about 3 days ago here in OZ, I've got to admit its nice to get an Issue thats only 3 months out of date rather than 5!I might even go for the Subscription
as an Idea overseas sales could almost be done by some of the Kit car clubs out here , most people are members and the clubs would do it for the extra revenue?
dave Ingerson
as an Idea overseas sales could almost be done by some of the Kit car clubs out here , most people are members and the clubs would do it for the extra revenue?
dave Ingerson
andycanam said:
Which one would make the softest, strongest, kindest on you bum toilet roll?
I hate to admit it, but Which Kit? would be far, far better on the bum.
You see, Kit Car is too full of hard and sharp words – cutting
. Therefore seems to me that mine’s best for reading, whilst the other will be more comfortable for ‘below the belt’ activities. An entirely objective opinion, of course.
Den
Thanks chaps,
It seems that I’ve got the followingideas to work with. 
to increase sales
Errr!!!! Don’t call us Wacky, we’ll call you.
We’ve all your details on file!
I think Ferg and Wacky are taking the p155 – just a feeling???
What’s more I don’t approved of copying other peoples ideas. Especially those with oodles of integrity.
Andy,
That’s a neat move, appealing to the green lobby. 100% recyclable - and it will comfort your bottom next time round (provided I remove the rough bits).
Mark, this one has been done a few times, but not recently. In fact there’s a catalogue with the Feb issue, out Jan. I’ll fill you in with some detail later. Nice one!!!!
Stickers. Not the first time I’ve heard this. You might be onto something.
Andy, I personally don’t rate competitions. Anyone got any views on them?
Dave, could I fob you off with the old ones?
It seems that I’ve got the following
ideas to work with. to increase sales Wacky Racer said:
Might sound obvious Den, but why not print less copies?
Errr!!!! Don’t call us Wacky, we’ll call you.
We’ve all your details on file!
Ferg said:
...and if selling fewer copies causes you a financial problem: start selling kitcars!! BRILLIANT!
I think Ferg and Wacky are taking the p155 – just a feeling???
What’s more I don’t approved of copying other peoples ideas. Especially those with oodles of integrity.
andycanam said:
What I want to know is... if each mag recycled its 7000 left over issues each month......
Which one would make the softest, strongest, kindest on you bum toilet roll?
Andy,
That’s a neat move, appealing to the green lobby. 100% recyclable - and it will comfort your bottom next time round (provided I remove the rough bits
). Ex-Biker said:
Some people will buy anything if they think they are getting something for nothing.
What you need is to get a company like say Demon Tweeks to offer a catalogue with your mag. . . This not only appeals to kit car owners, but the boy racers, the performance car nuts and often the general car enthusiast.
Mark, this one has been done a few times, but not recently. In fact there’s a catalogue with the Feb issue, out Jan. I’ll fill you in with some detail later. Nice one!!!!
Flintstone said:
Back when I used to ride a motorbike my favourite mag used to dish out a free set of stickers once a year.
Every few months there'd be some other piece of tat but the stickers were my favourite ("I speed up for horses. If you can read this you're too fecking close etc etc").
Worked for me.
Stickers. Not the first time I’ve heard this. You might be onto something.
spartan_andy said:
Den, use the freebie idea in conjunction with a 2 part competition for something not specifically kit car oriented that way you get the performance car bods etc buying two editions Just a thought
Andy, I personally don’t rate competitions. Anyone got any views on them?
Ozzie Dave said:
. . .overseas sales could almost be done by some of the Kit car clubs out here , most people are members and the clubs would do it for the extra revenue?
Dave, could I fob you off with the old ones?
How about rent a track and invite a selection of cars to come on YOUR track day and then price it not to make a profit.
If you get it right you get a good half dozen pages in your mag with quite a varying selection of Kit cars, the owners get a good value track day with maybe a pic of their car in the article.
All winners!
Or....
maybe go to a builders garage and sort out a specific problem they have.
You could ask for letters like the house doctor thingy on TV... then go round and sort the 'little' problem for them, with a feature on what you did and were they could have gone for help.
If you get it right you get a good half dozen pages in your mag with quite a varying selection of Kit cars, the owners get a good value track day with maybe a pic of their car in the article.
All winners!
Or....
maybe go to a builders garage and sort out a specific problem they have.
You could ask for letters like the house doctor thingy on TV... then go round and sort the 'little' problem for them, with a feature on what you did and were they could have gone for help.
andycanam said:
How about rent a track and invite a selection of cars to come on YOUR track day and then price it not to make a profit.
If you get it right you get a good half dozen pages in your mag with quite a varying selection of Kit cars, the owners get a good value track day with maybe a pic of their car in the article.
All winners!
Or....
maybe go to a builders garage and sort out a specific problem they have.
You could ask for letters like the house doctor thingy on TV... then go round and sort the 'little' problem for them, with a feature on what you did and were they could have gone for help.
Now those ideas I like......
KitCar doctor... excellent idea! but where do we find a woman who is mutton dressed as lamb with a horrible west coast drawl who is into kit cars?
I like the trackday idea as well.... priced right, you could get some 'interesting' kits taking part!
Andy,
I really like these two suggestions, but I think they’re more about improving the content with a view to increasing sales, which I’d like to explore as a separate issue.
Clearly, no matter what gimmicks or techniques are employed, if the product isn’t what’s wanted
it’s sales won’t increase. The trick is to expand appeal w/o loosing the interest of those who like it as it is.
As I said though, damn fine ideas!!!
Den
.
I really like these two suggestions
, but I think they’re more about improving the content with a view to increasing sales, which I’d like to explore as a separate issue. Clearly, no matter what gimmicks or techniques are employed, if the product isn’t what’s wanted
it’s sales won’t increase. The trick is to expand appeal w/o loosing the interest of those who like it as it is. As I said though, damn fine ideas
!!! Den
. Following on from Andy's idea, Cars & Car Conversions used to hold 2 trackdays a year at Castle Combe, that could mean Castle Combe have a couple of spare slots now that CCC has folded, obviously living close to the circuit doesn't influence my decision to suggest this 
The competitions are difficult, I've been known to buy a magazine as I had part 1 of the competition even though there was nothing else in the magazine that would have made me buy it in that 2nd month. It's probably the biggest prizes that pull in the readers, but you must have to dramatically increase sales to cover the cost of the prizes.
Please don't head down the route of having 27 different credit card application forms falling out of KC each month. The europa pamphlet/brochure I liked, perhaps more of that (I suspect you can charge your advertisers for this facility?) Again going back to CCC, RallyDesign published their catalogue as a huge advert inside one issue each year, perhaps you could encourage them to do likewise in KC as lots of their parts fit our ford based kits. I know it ensured at least 1 copy of CCC sold each year!
Perhaps don't use too many examples of CCC's marketing, we don't want KC to head the same way. (well I'm sure there's one individual that would!)
The competitions are difficult, I've been known to buy a magazine as I had part 1 of the competition even though there was nothing else in the magazine that would have made me buy it in that 2nd month. It's probably the biggest prizes that pull in the readers, but you must have to dramatically increase sales to cover the cost of the prizes.
Please don't head down the route of having 27 different credit card application forms falling out of KC each month. The europa pamphlet/brochure I liked, perhaps more of that (I suspect you can charge your advertisers for this facility?) Again going back to CCC, RallyDesign published their catalogue as a huge advert inside one issue each year, perhaps you could encourage them to do likewise in KC as lots of their parts fit our ford based kits. I know it ensured at least 1 copy of CCC sold each year!
Perhaps don't use too many examples of CCC's marketing, we don't want KC to head the same way. (well I'm sure there's one individual that would!)
kitcarman said:
Andy,
I really like these two suggestions
I think on the trackday suggestion, Andy's idea would do both.
If the trackday is advertised outside of KC magazine (obviously as well as in it!) you should get non-readers to attend.
As soon as they see a KC magazine official photographer there, and an official KC magazine journalist asking about cars, the first thing they will do is get hold of a copy of the magazine to see if they appear in it!
Den
I'll talk to you about the track day idea soon. It works well in conjunction with a bigger plan.
As for competitions, as Peetbee said, it does encourage you to buy a few issues. However, the prize has to be something you want (eg WK? tyres comp is OK, but they are quite specific on the sizes they are giving away. No good if you need 205/45/17's or 225/40/17's [like me] is it?) and it needs to be of great value (eg not a £20 book).
Run the comp over too many issues and people get bored and can't be bothered with it.
Always having a comp running, doesn't encourage anyone.
So why not do a big comp once a year, which is promoted at all shows etc. Have 2 or 3 months where there are competitions in the mag and you enter when you've got all the answers. Run it over 6 issues (comp a in month 1 & 2, b in 3 & 4 etc)
The prize could be a new/recon/tuned engine of choice. eg Ford 2.0 zetec, a V8, Rover 2.0 turbo. That would ensure everyone in the kit car world would have a use for the engine.
You can always do competitions for fun (or minor prizes) too. eg '20 q's about cars and performance'
I'll shut up.
I'll talk to you about the track day idea soon. It works well in conjunction with a bigger plan.
As for competitions, as Peetbee said, it does encourage you to buy a few issues. However, the prize has to be something you want (eg WK? tyres comp is OK, but they are quite specific on the sizes they are giving away. No good if you need 205/45/17's or 225/40/17's [like me] is it?) and it needs to be of great value (eg not a £20 book).
Run the comp over too many issues and people get bored and can't be bothered with it.
Always having a comp running, doesn't encourage anyone.
So why not do a big comp once a year, which is promoted at all shows etc. Have 2 or 3 months where there are competitions in the mag and you enter when you've got all the answers. Run it over 6 issues (comp a in month 1 & 2, b in 3 & 4 etc)
The prize could be a new/recon/tuned engine of choice. eg Ford 2.0 zetec, a V8, Rover 2.0 turbo. That would ensure everyone in the kit car world would have a use for the engine.
You can always do competitions for fun (or minor prizes) too. eg '20 q's about cars and performance'
I'll shut up.
PeetBee said:
Following on from Andy's idea, Cars & Car Conversions used to hold 2 trackdays a year at Castle Combe
Last time I asked, Castle Combe wanted £10,000 for a day’s hire.
Simply couldn’t justify the cost
. I’d have needed in excess of a 100 cars on track, in which case I seriously wondered what value each punter would get out of his 1/100th share
. Still, CCC managed.
Perhaps another look is in order
. Thanks Andy and PeetBee
PeetBee said:
The competitions are difficult. . . .It's probably the biggest prizes that pull in the readers, but you must have to dramatically increase sales to cover the cost of the prizes.
That’s the conclusion I came to!
Unless I can get someone else to put up the prize!!!! PeetBee said:
Again going back to CCC, RallyDesign published their catalogue as a huge advert inside one issue each year, perhaps you could encourage them to do likewise in KC as lots of their parts fit our ford based kits. I know it ensured at least 1 copy of CCC sold each year!
Been there. Rally Design catalogue is in our February 2004 issue
. I was astonished at the negotiations. They put the deal to both Which Kit? and Kit Car. I just couldn’t believe Which Kit? response – their loss, as I said Kit Car won the contract. PeetBee said:
Perhaps don't use too many examples of CCC's marketing. . . .
Emmmm!!!
Den
Den, On the track day thing, you should have seen the response to the classic & sportscar event there earlier this year!
Perhaps if you could market it the same way as I heard about that event, ie a friend on PH told me then you'd get the numbers I'm sure. Obviously to do that your definition of kit cars would have to be loose, for example include firms that used to make kits should bump the numbers up a bit, Lotus, TVR, Marcos, etc, but that would be ok as I'm sure that a few of these 'kit car' firms could embarass the owners of established manufacturers and provide suitable copy for the mag 
Mailshot a few of your advertisers suggesting they could attend for the same fee as the paying public with the suggestion they could take prospective punters out for a spin? or at least have a 'stand'
Go on, you know you want to......
And as for the RalDes contract
I know where I'll be getting my 2004 version
can you tell us more about the other response?
Stickers? Perhaps you could some PistonHeads.com ones off PetrolTed? I'm sure he'd do a deal for a suitable quantity, it would save me buying one
>> Edited by PeetBee on Monday 27th October 20:32
Perhaps if you could market it the same way as I heard about that event, ie a friend on PH told me
then you'd get the numbers I'm sure. Obviously to do that your definition of kit cars would have to be loose, for example include firms that used to make kits should bump the numbers up a bit, Lotus, TVR, Marcos, etc, but that would be ok as I'm sure that a few of these 'kit car' firms could embarass the owners of established manufacturers and provide suitable copy for the mag Mailshot a few of your advertisers suggesting they could attend for the same fee as the paying public with the suggestion they could take prospective punters out for a spin? or at least have a 'stand'
Go on, you know you want to......
And as for the RalDes contract
I know where I'll be getting my 2004 version
can you tell us more about the other response?
Stickers? Perhaps you could some PistonHeads.com ones off PetrolTed? I'm sure he'd do a deal for a suitable quantity, it would save me buying one
>> Edited by PeetBee on Monday 27th October 20:32
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