Three wheeler Cabin Scooter Design
Discussion
Steffan i admire your enthusiasm but to be fair you are a self proclaimed 3 wheel nut!
I don't for a minute doubt the engineering expertease involved in the Razor and with the quality of product they've created it really deserves to be a success - I'm just saying they should keep options open (literally!). The hardest part I'm guessing would've been making the hard top to start with so, as Davi says, it should be a relatively easy process to create an open top from but....why wait to be asked?! There's clearly a market for open top reverse trikes else Grinnall wouldn't still be in (healthy) business after all these years.
The old saying goes you never get a second chance to make a first impression - it'd be a shame for some one to be put off if the response to asking for open top options was, no, we don't have one but if there's enough interest we may do one somewhere down the line and you can always chop up the hard top yourself...It's probably irrelevant thinking by now anyway as I guess they would already know if there was demand or not based on peoples questions at Stoneleigh - would be fascinating to know whether there were people asking about an open option.
Still concerned the car is a slightly hard sell in that although it's dropped a wheel and thus you'd think weight, it comes in at the same if not slight heavier weight of its 4 wheel BEC equivalent yet it's down one contact point on the road and costs about the same to build. So it's unqiue selling points are totally out there looks and enclosed cockpit - I just wonder if that's enough so why not add the ability to go from completely enclosed to open top in a quick easy fashion - all things to all men - and add a third unique selling point. All just my thoughts and to be fair I'm not a likely customer so probably irrelevant!
I don't for a minute doubt the engineering expertease involved in the Razor and with the quality of product they've created it really deserves to be a success - I'm just saying they should keep options open (literally!). The hardest part I'm guessing would've been making the hard top to start with so, as Davi says, it should be a relatively easy process to create an open top from but....why wait to be asked?! There's clearly a market for open top reverse trikes else Grinnall wouldn't still be in (healthy) business after all these years.
The old saying goes you never get a second chance to make a first impression - it'd be a shame for some one to be put off if the response to asking for open top options was, no, we don't have one but if there's enough interest we may do one somewhere down the line and you can always chop up the hard top yourself...It's probably irrelevant thinking by now anyway as I guess they would already know if there was demand or not based on peoples questions at Stoneleigh - would be fascinating to know whether there were people asking about an open option.
Still concerned the car is a slightly hard sell in that although it's dropped a wheel and thus you'd think weight, it comes in at the same if not slight heavier weight of its 4 wheel BEC equivalent yet it's down one contact point on the road and costs about the same to build. So it's unqiue selling points are totally out there looks and enclosed cockpit - I just wonder if that's enough so why not add the ability to go from completely enclosed to open top in a quick easy fashion - all things to all men - and add a third unique selling point. All just my thoughts and to be fair I'm not a likely customer so probably irrelevant!
Trike on Gadget show was T3 Motion R3 EV
I'm trying - and failing - to find a polite euphemism for dumpy. I guess the swage line was an attempt to alleviate that, but it's set too high so actually emphasises how tall the door / flanks are - D'Oh! Smaller light clusters than those Urban Cruiser ones might have helped too.
Good to hear that Grinnall are thriving, but given that they seem to have dropped off the kit radar and looking at their site I wonder a) how much of their turnover is accounted for by the Scorpions rather than the bike based trikes & b) what proportion overall are export sales. Good luck to them, things are clearly going well - latest news item is about move to bigger premises.
I think the Razor's pretty reasonably priced for what it is. How tall is 'door' when open? I'm guessing it's low slung so not as tall as it looks in photos - don't want to knacker trailing edge against ceiling when you're getting out... Would some sort of removable panel (though where could you stow it?) satisfy a desire for open top crowd? Would love to know what the response has been.
I'm trying - and failing - to find a polite euphemism for dumpy. I guess the swage line was an attempt to alleviate that, but it's set too high so actually emphasises how tall the door / flanks are - D'Oh! Smaller light clusters than those Urban Cruiser ones might have helped too.
Good to hear that Grinnall are thriving, but given that they seem to have dropped off the kit radar and looking at their site I wonder a) how much of their turnover is accounted for by the Scorpions rather than the bike based trikes & b) what proportion overall are export sales. Good luck to them, things are clearly going well - latest news item is about move to bigger premises.
I think the Razor's pretty reasonably priced for what it is. How tall is 'door' when open? I'm guessing it's low slung so not as tall as it looks in photos - don't want to knacker trailing edge against ceiling when you're getting out... Would some sort of removable panel (though where could you stow it?) satisfy a desire for open top crowd? Would love to know what the response has been.
Sat351 said:
I think they did it right, Roof first and offer the open top later,,
If I had a pound for everytime someone asked for a roof for the Eco-Exo I would be a rich man
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but isn't the fact you're at opposite ends of the spectrum a factor? Surely the Eco-Exo is more likely to see action as a commuter, and this informs demand for certain features. If I had a pound for everytime someone asked for a roof for the Eco-Exo I would be a rich man
Personal I have always seen this a bit of good idea that miss something. The new R seems to carry on in this. The lack of bodywork must limit the use of this for commuters. I mean your going to work in a cars, that still needs you to dress as is on a motorcycle. As to luggage, where do you put it.
I lifted the following from this topic as I feel Eco-exo needs more than just a roof.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thinking about this I looked back to the Feora I post about a yew days ago. Clearly this closer to the car wanted than the current Eco-Exo.
I lifted the following from this topic as I feel Eco-exo needs more than just a roof.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
fuoriserie said:
I would think that a low cost build would have to be below 5.000 Pounds for the fancy 3wheeler and 3.000 for the basic.
I've being thinking of something inspired by the old Velorex of the 60's, with their exo chassis covered by a special cloth/fiber ( maybe taurpaline ?) .
Today you can find modern textile, strong enough to replace a GRP body and be lowcost enough...
A few images of the Velorex
As to what the covering could be, I would look at something like Solarspan. This is used on modle aircraft. Clearly covering the current Eco-Exo in a skin/film and adding a roof would widen its appeal a lot.I've being thinking of something inspired by the old Velorex of the 60's, with their exo chassis covered by a special cloth/fiber ( maybe taurpaline ?) .
Today you can find modern textile, strong enough to replace a GRP body and be lowcost enough...
A few images of the Velorex
Thinking about this I looked back to the Feora I post about a yew days ago. Clearly this closer to the car wanted than the current Eco-Exo.
Edited by KDIcarmad on Tuesday 8th May 15:19
smash said:
Steffan i admire your enthusiasm but to be fair you are a self proclaimed 3 wheel nut!
I don't for a minute doubt the engineering expertease involved in the Razor and with the quality of product they've created it really deserves to be a success - I'm just saying they should keep options open (literally!). The hardest part I'm guessing would've been making the hard top to start with so, as Davi says, it should be a relatively easy process to create an open top from but....why wait to be asked?! There's clearly a market for open top reverse trikes else Grinnall wouldn't still be in (healthy) business after all these years.
The old saying goes you never get a second chance to make a first impression - it'd be a shame for some one to be put off if the response to asking for open top options was, no, we don't have one but if there's enough interest we may do one somewhere down the line and you can always chop up the hard top yourself...It's probably irrelevant thinking by now anyway as I guess they would already know if there was demand or not based on peoples questions at Stoneleigh - would be fascinating to know whether there were people asking about an open option.
Still concerned the car is a slightly hard sell in that although it's dropped a wheel and thus you'd think weight, it comes in at the same if not slight heavier weight of its 4 wheel BEC equivalent yet it's down one contact point on the road and costs about the same to build. So it's unqiue selling points are totally out there looks and enclosed cockpit - I just wonder if that's enough so why not add the ability to go from completely enclosed to open top in a quick easy fashion - all things to all men - and add a third unique selling point. All just my thoughts and to be fair I'm not a likely customer so probably irrelevant!
I take that as a compliment you need enthusiasm at my age to do anything!I don't for a minute doubt the engineering expertease involved in the Razor and with the quality of product they've created it really deserves to be a success - I'm just saying they should keep options open (literally!). The hardest part I'm guessing would've been making the hard top to start with so, as Davi says, it should be a relatively easy process to create an open top from but....why wait to be asked?! There's clearly a market for open top reverse trikes else Grinnall wouldn't still be in (healthy) business after all these years.
The old saying goes you never get a second chance to make a first impression - it'd be a shame for some one to be put off if the response to asking for open top options was, no, we don't have one but if there's enough interest we may do one somewhere down the line and you can always chop up the hard top yourself...It's probably irrelevant thinking by now anyway as I guess they would already know if there was demand or not based on peoples questions at Stoneleigh - would be fascinating to know whether there were people asking about an open option.
Still concerned the car is a slightly hard sell in that although it's dropped a wheel and thus you'd think weight, it comes in at the same if not slight heavier weight of its 4 wheel BEC equivalent yet it's down one contact point on the road and costs about the same to build. So it's unqiue selling points are totally out there looks and enclosed cockpit - I just wonder if that's enough so why not add the ability to go from completely enclosed to open top in a quick easy fashion - all things to all men - and add a third unique selling point. All just my thoughts and to be fair I'm not a likely customer so probably irrelevant!
Interested in your comments on the relatively heavy Razor compared to the 4 wheel BEC equivalent.
I had the opportunity to examine the chassis of the Razor in some depth at Stoneleigh and I suspect it is an exceptionally string well supported build with exceptional torque capacity. Given the Suzuki engine at the back I understand why. I believe the rotational strength of this car fully built will be way beyond the lightweight seven clones and racers.
Superlight cars suffer from serious torque steer in my experience. My lightweight (paper thin chassis) Dutton V8 had a 4.2 grafted on by a previous owner, without the chassis being beefed up.
It is completely undrivable as it is. Which is why the owner sold it and I bought it (for not a lot). I knew it was unsafe and that, a complete triangulation exercise, by my chassis contacts, was essential and is job number 6 on my list this year.
The builders of the Razor have actually rolled the cars personally on the track when coming, off as you do, and the cars reflect the level of care in build, that, having that sort of experience, tends to give you.
These are no lightweight specials, but I think they would stand a lifetime of abuse and competition. Which is what I want. I like strong cars. I roll them occasionally. Hopefully not so much in the future but I do like sliding around corners, and mistakes happen. Especially to me. Straight line speed has no interest for me. I rarely reach the top speed of any of my cars.
KDIcarmad said:
As to what the covering could be, I would look at something like Solarspan. This is used on modle aircraft. Clearly covering the current Eco-Exo in a skin/film and adding a roof would widen its appeal a lot.
Thinking about this I looked back to the Feora I post about a yew days ago. Clearly this closer to the car wanted than the current Eco-Exo.
I wouldn't look at Solarspan. It may be a little bit thicker / tougher than solarfilm, but its in no way suitable for this type of application, I've put holes in it just getting one of my aircraft out the car!!!Thinking about this I looked back to the Feora I post about a yew days ago. Clearly this closer to the car wanted than the current Eco-Exo.
Edited by KDIcarmad on Tuesday 8th May 15:19
Steffan said:
The builders of the Razor have actually rolled the cars personally on the track when coming, off as you do, and the cars reflect the level of care in build, that, having that sort of experience, tends to give you.
These are no lightweight specials, but I think they would stand a lifetime of abuse and competition. Which is what I want. I like strong cars. I roll them occasionally. Hopefully not so much in the future but I do like sliding around corners, and mistakes happen. Especially to me. Straight line speed has no interest for me. I rarely reach the top speed of any of my cars.
Quick question - if you roll it, how do you get out? Same sort of problem as the old Nova, I guess.These are no lightweight specials, but I think they would stand a lifetime of abuse and competition. Which is what I want. I like strong cars. I roll them occasionally. Hopefully not so much in the future but I do like sliding around corners, and mistakes happen. Especially to me. Straight line speed has no interest for me. I rarely reach the top speed of any of my cars.
Davi said:
KDIcarmad said:
As to what the covering could be, I would look at something like Solarspan. This is used on modle aircraft. Clearly covering the current Eco-Exo in a skin/film and adding a roof would widen its appeal a lot.
Thinking about this I looked back to the Feora I post about a yew days ago. Clearly this closer to the car wanted than the current Eco-Exo.
I wouldn't look at Solarspan. It may be a little bit thicker / tougher than solarfilm, but its in no way suitable for this type of application, I've put holes in it just getting one of my aircraft out the car!!!Thinking about this I looked back to the Feora I post about a yew days ago. Clearly this closer to the car wanted than the current Eco-Exo.
Edited by KDIcarmad on Tuesday 8th May 15:19
Fer said:
Steffan said:
The builders of the Razor have actually rolled the cars personally on the track when coming, off as you do, and the cars reflect the level of care in build, that, having that sort of experience, tends to give you.
These are no lightweight specials, but I think they would stand a lifetime of abuse and competition. Which is what I want. I like strong cars. I roll them occasionally. Hopefully not so much in the future but I do like sliding around corners, and mistakes happen. Especially to me. Straight line speed has no interest for me. I rarely reach the top speed of any of my cars.
Quick question - if you roll it, how do you get out? Same sort of problem as the old Nova, I guess.These are no lightweight specials, but I think they would stand a lifetime of abuse and competition. Which is what I want. I like strong cars. I roll them occasionally. Hopefully not so much in the future but I do like sliding around corners, and mistakes happen. Especially to me. Straight line speed has no interest for me. I rarely reach the top speed of any of my cars.
I would personally want a soft top version and I will be discussing this with builders. The screen is a special laminated version so I will need to get an appropriate frame etc. But I think such a car would be pure fun. That's why I run Kit Cars!
Sat351 said:
But if you cover it dont you take away the looks and the Exo part of the name!!!
Simple colour matching polycarbonate side panels fitted to the inside of the rails and your sorted
That would work. As clearly this is moving away from the Exo style of car covering up the chassis may not be a problem. Simple colour matching polycarbonate side panels fitted to the inside of the rails and your sorted
I have personal love the fact that a lot of people clearly like the idea of an enclosed Eco-Exo and the idea of cabin scooters, which is what an enclosed Eco-Exo would be. Stuart Mills has already explained in another posting, why he would not enclose a Burgman engine. Noise levels and I can understand that, most scooter are heard before you see them. Without a roof or sides I do not see commuters using this car/bike.
Something different to the Eco-Exo is needed and from the reaction to the posts on this, the demand could be there for that something.
Although it has one wheel less than three, I thought you guys might be interested in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
It certainly is intriguing. I assume it falls over when the batteries run out...
In fact some of his other ideas are rather interesting, too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
It certainly is intriguing. I assume it falls over when the batteries run out...
In fact some of his other ideas are rather interesting, too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp...
Edited by dxg on Tuesday 22 May 23:57
I think you will find the Litestar/Pulse interesting...
and they sold a few...
It is claimed over 300 were sold in early 80's. Before you all post say this has 4 wheels, yes, but only one of the outrigger wheels touches the ground at any time. That means it is treated as three wheeled. They are big 192 inches (wheelbase 120 inches) and weight in at 1000lbs. They were power by a 450cc air cool engine, that ran a little hot. Does anyone know why these were so big? Still It could reach 100mph and give 45 mpg. From what I have read, the way they drive depends on how the outrigger are set. At one inch you do not notice the change from one outrigger to the other. What would one of these be like today?
I personal like this design, its to big, but still fun! A road going aircraft, a car that looks like nothing else on the road. Would an update of these sell today? Could you sell 300 of these today?
and they sold a few...
It is claimed over 300 were sold in early 80's. Before you all post say this has 4 wheels, yes, but only one of the outrigger wheels touches the ground at any time. That means it is treated as three wheeled. They are big 192 inches (wheelbase 120 inches) and weight in at 1000lbs. They were power by a 450cc air cool engine, that ran a little hot. Does anyone know why these were so big? Still It could reach 100mph and give 45 mpg. From what I have read, the way they drive depends on how the outrigger are set. At one inch you do not notice the change from one outrigger to the other. What would one of these be like today?
I personal like this design, its to big, but still fun! A road going aircraft, a car that looks like nothing else on the road. Would an update of these sell today? Could you sell 300 of these today?
KDIcarmad said:
I think you will find the Litestar/Pulse interesting...
I would love something like that but with two at the front configuration reminds me of the ecomobile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbdkZB9-Sd4
KDIcarmad said:
I think you will find the Litestar/Pulse interesting...
and they sold a few...
I personal like this design, its to big, but still fun! A road going aircraft, a car that looks like nothing else on the road. Would an update of these sell today? Could you sell 300 of these today?
I like it too and for more info check:and they sold a few...
I personal like this design, its to big, but still fun! A road going aircraft, a car that looks like nothing else on the road. Would an update of these sell today? Could you sell 300 of these today?
http://www.autocycles.org/
A 3 wheeler version:
http://www.autocycles.org/bdtrike.html
You could update it with a Suzuki Burgman scooter engine and with a slightly revised design, it could still have appeal...
fuoriserie said:
http://www.autocycles.org/bdtrike.html
You could update it with a Suzuki Burgman scooter engine and with a slightly revised design, it could still have appeal...
I like the three wheeler. After seeing the picture on another thread on hear or locost builders I spent a while looking for the plans or an unfinished kit for the aircraft (the name escapes me) but could not find the information. I then found an older glider body that would make a good starting point but got no further with the project. You could update it with a Suzuki Burgman scooter engine and with a slightly revised design, it could still have appeal...
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff