Three wheeler Cabin Scooter Design
Discussion
Martin A said:
The style is great, but it's as wide as an old Fiat 500 or Mini. Commuters need an enclosed stable scooter like the love child of a Lit C-1 and a Piaggio MP3. Produce that and you'll have plenty of customers I would imagine.
Thanks...
As with reference to dimensions, it's not so wide ( 1.350mm) but I agree with you that it's close to an old Fiat 500 and maybe something slightly smaller ( maybe 1150mm) might interest a few more.
Will see in the future what happens...I do have an extra chassis to play with....
fuoriserie said:
Steffan said:
Afternoon fuorisierie, any idea of the prices for this veloceped?
Looks a very nice car to me but as ever being an Accountant costs are very close to my heart.
I cannot see it being cheap. The doors lifting is an interesting apprach, but I think must impinge on the costs. Any ideas? Speed bumps are a damned nuisance on the road nowadays I am bound to say I would expect problems with that minimalist ride height. Nice looking little car should run OK I would think but the costs are a concern. Nice to see someone is having a go!
Ride heights are a perennial problem with kit cars I am forever avoiding high bumps in town and circumnavigating around England to find the least damaging route. Over the years I have gradually raised the ride height limits in my mounts in desperation, and life is so much simpler for that. Good post it is always interesting to read your contributions and to get a window on the latest uppgrades and changes in KC manufacturing. Keep it Up!
Good morning Steffan,.....it's a long story ( that is why the thread is so long...Looks a very nice car to me but as ever being an Accountant costs are very close to my heart.
I cannot see it being cheap. The doors lifting is an interesting apprach, but I think must impinge on the costs. Any ideas? Speed bumps are a damned nuisance on the road nowadays I am bound to say I would expect problems with that minimalist ride height. Nice looking little car should run OK I would think but the costs are a concern. Nice to see someone is having a go! Ride heights are a perennial problem with kit cars I am forever avoiding high bumps in town and circumnavigating around England to find the least damaging route. Over the years I have gradually raised the ride height limits in my mounts in desperation, and life is so much simpler for that. Good post it is always interesting to read your contributions and to get a window on the latest uppgrades and changes in KC manufacturing. Keep it Up!
) but you're spot on, as the manufacturing costs for the kit, were too close to an open JZR-Triking threewheeler kitcar and the drawback was that you only had a sinle seater and the small capcity scooter engine 160cc. In reality this was going to be produced by an Italian scooter manufacture, but in 2009 and after 80yrs. of manufcaturing they decided to close shop !!!...my partners and I were left with the project and tried to sell it in kit form, but the costs didn't add up for a small business venture...
and eventually the economic crisis caught up also with my partners.If it had gone in production in Italy it would have been classed as a Quadricycle or Microcar.
I believe there is a niche for a single seater threewheeler in the kitcar industry and the Eco-Exo is the perfect threewheeler and at the right price.
If I would re-design it today, it would have to have a bigger engine, maybe a 250-300 or even 400 cc engine, bigger scooter wheels as 16in. wheels( the original had 13in. car wheels) and and for the body I would use fiberglass and cloth( see the Velorex Oskar trike...)
By implementing some of these ideas, maybe you would cut and have some decent manufacturing costs for a small kitcar manufacture, but.....
With reference to ride height from the ground it's currently at 20cm. and it's like that of a normal car.
We tested it on speed bumps just to be sure and passed...
For a future project the enthusiast in me asks for a basic enclosed 2 seater with a single or V-twin engine with a vintage inspired design at a lowcost price, or go at the far end and design something very modern and extreme, but the final price would be almost prohibitive for most kitcar enthusiast and the current trend is for lowcost projects.
I believe that the Pembleton and Mev have taken over the JZR niche market and Triking and Blackjack are at the top end of the market, while all the others sit in between.
They're all very good products and are doing decently well, but who knows if in the future we will see a new threewheeler design...
Edited by fuoriserie on Sunday 15th March 08:44
As a sometime Morgan three wheeler owner long long ago, I still regard the qualities of the cars as quite unique and exceptionally desirable.
Turning to the very interesting background to your latest posting on here I do wish you well in your efforts. I will not recount again, my Berkeley memories, good to see you are on the case and looking at the various possibilities. Personally I would suggest that a bigger, and therefore much more flexible, engine in such velocipedes, would be significantly better OTR. But every good wish to your efforts and most interesting and informative.
I am still after a Berkeley shell which I will no doubt find eventually at the right price. Rebuilt with all new suspension and a decent motor should be go pretty well ! Since I am now spending seven months a year in your Homeland, Italy, I am still swamped with the kit cars I have around. I think this year should allow me to sell a fair few and then onto the Berkeley project! Toodle Pip! Happy days!
Edited by Steffan on Sunday 15th March 12:37
fuoriserie said:
Martin A said:
The style is great, but it's as wide as an old Fiat 500 or Mini. Commuters need an enclosed stable scooter like the love child of a Lit C-1 and a Piaggio MP3. Produce that and you'll have plenty of customers I would imagine.
Thanks...As with reference to dimensions, it's not so wide ( 1.350mm) but I agree with you that it's close to an old Fiat 500 and maybe something slightly smaller ( maybe 1150mm) might interest a few more.
Will see in the future what happens...I do have an extra chassis to play with....
Martin A said:
I feel that it needs to be no more than 1 metre to be able to lane split as a commuter vehicle, ideally less. I'd see 800mm as a target. The Tercyclo chassis seems to be about that width but the suspension needs to be changed drastically to keep it narrow.
I agree with you that for a commuter vehicle 1.m. would be ideal but difficult...you're in Velomobile territory !...my current recumbent trike project is 84cm. wide. ( http://www.poderosacycles.com/)The suspension would need re-designing for the new width and the chassis width is currently 65cm.
Maybe an electric pedal assist Velomobile is feasable on my recumbent trike chassis but the current Tercyclo would need re-engineering to fit the new brief
Steffan said:
Al very inforative and very interesting. I agree that MEV are very much around in this market, probably towards the affordable end and the Pembteton really is at the top end which 90 years ago was pioneered by the Morgan which IMO remains the most attractice three wheeler if distinctly unaffordable, currently. More work is definitely needed on the suspension geometry and chassis design but the cachet of the name and the layout and build quality is quite outstanding. The Morgan brand is stil pursued by enthusiasts and I hope always will be. Been a bit of a kerfuffle at Morgan with the sudden departure of Charles Morgan, but the brand is still rock soloed .
As a sometime Morgan three wheeler owner long long ago, I still regard the qualities of the cars as quite unique and exceptionally desirable.
Turning to the very interesting background to your latest posting on here I do wish you well in your efforts. I will not recount again, my Berkeley memories, good to see you are on the case and looking at the various possibilities. Personally I would suggest that a bigger, and therefore much more flexible, engine in such velocipedes, would be significantly better OTR. But every good wish to your efforts and most interesting and informative.
I am still after a Berkeley shell which I will no doubt find eventually at the right price. Rebuilt with all new suspension and a decent motor should be go pretty well ! Since I am now spending seven months a year in your Homeland, Italy, I am still swamped with the kit cars I have around. I think this year should allow me to sell a fair few and then onto the Berkeley project! Toodle Pip! Happy days!
Thanks Steffan ....As a sometime Morgan three wheeler owner long long ago, I still regard the qualities of the cars as quite unique and exceptionally desirable.
Turning to the very interesting background to your latest posting on here I do wish you well in your efforts. I will not recount again, my Berkeley memories, good to see you are on the case and looking at the various possibilities. Personally I would suggest that a bigger, and therefore much more flexible, engine in such velocipedes, would be significantly better OTR. But every good wish to your efforts and most interesting and informative.
I am still after a Berkeley shell which I will no doubt find eventually at the right price. Rebuilt with all new suspension and a decent motor should be go pretty well ! Since I am now spending seven months a year in your Homeland, Italy, I am still swamped with the kit cars I have around. I think this year should allow me to sell a fair few and then onto the Berkeley project! Toodle Pip! Happy days!
Edited by Steffan on Sunday 15th March 12:37
I still haven't decided which way to go yet, but I do have three different design concept renderings in front of me and the deciding factor will be the funds.....how much I can afford and have in my pocket ( very little really...).
Anyway if you're still in Italy by the time I'm finished with the prototype, you are very welcome anytime to stop by for a glass of wine and a long chat anytime...
Cheers
Italo
Edited by fuoriserie on Sunday 15th March 20:46
fuoriserie said:
qdos said:
That looks barking mad Italo
Would get a lot of attention for sure
I agree with you...Would get a lot of attention for sure
On a constructive note, on this very interesting project, Italo, is it possible to provide protection for the driver in the event of a contretomps OTR with another vehicle on the road? There is of course no legal requirement (I think) because such a vehicle would offer at least as much protection as there is on a motorcyclle. That design is excetionally forward looking and if the Panels could be made at reasonable cost, possibly by eemulating the Smart car approach to replacesble panels could those aims be met be over a tube steel undrpinning project?
I do like that design very much particularly fr many city dwellers. I think that as real potential. Well done, Italo!
Steffan said:
fuoriserie said:
qdos said:
That looks barking mad Italo
Would get a lot of attention for sure
I agree with you...Would get a lot of attention for sure
I do like that design very much particularly fr many city dwellers. I think that as real potential. Well done, Italo!
With reference to the protection , I had envisaged an inner steel rollcage and grp panels for the exterior...the initial design proposal I had in mind, was meant to be for a front engined V-twin Guzzi...something like a Triking with grp monocoque chassis and subframes at the front and rear.
I eventually changed to a rear mounted scooter engine and modified the design to suit the new engine position.
I believe that this design could have some potential if it was picked up my a major manufacture, but in the kitcar niche, it would have limited appeal, due to high manufacturing costs, especially the curved glass screen and doors.
I still think, that motorcycle engined threewheelers have and edge on potential sales to kitcar enthusiasts and very few of us might be interested in scooter based threewheelers.
I have some updated designs for a lowcost Isetta design proposal and a Messerchmitt Kabibroller , using modern scooter engines, but after some rough manufaturing costings, I've come to the conclusion that it woul put them to close to a motorcycle engined threewheeler and thus limiting their sales potential.
If someone finds a lowcost solution for chassis manufacturing, maybe sandwich pannels, like this TREV:
https://sites.google.com/site/trevipedia/
maybe the above projects might have a sales potential....
Who knows maybe things are changing and I haven't noticed but I still think that a Grinnall Scorpion has more appeal than a cabin scooter...personally I'm moving towards such a concept...
An electric threewheeler prototype.
http://www.hyperdriveinnovation.com/news/art/19/el...
http://hyperdriveinnovation.com/images/editor/Pure...
http://www.hyperdrivetechnologies.co.uk/images/cas...
http://www.hyperdriveinnovation.com/news/art/19/el...
http://hyperdriveinnovation.com/images/editor/Pure...
http://www.hyperdrivetechnologies.co.uk/images/cas...
Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 23 September 11:41
It's a unique, single seater electric threewheeler :
http://www.nevco-ev.com/index2.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wmbates/sets/7215763...
http://www.nevco-ev.com/index2.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wmbates/sets/7215763...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCj338o01OA
The teilhol Citadine of 1972, was a more modern inspired Isetta, but with an electic engine.
The teilhol Citadine of 1972, was a more modern inspired Isetta, but with an electic engine.
fuoriserie said:
An electric threewheeler prototype.
http://www.hyperdriveinnovation.com/news/art/19/el...
http://hyperdriveinnovation.com/images/editor/Pure...
http://www.hyperdrivetechnologies.co.uk/images/cas...
Ha thttp://www.hyperdriveinnovation.com/news/art/19/el...
http://hyperdriveinnovation.com/images/editor/Pure...
http://www.hyperdrivetechnologies.co.uk/images/cas...
Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 23 September 11:41
his is ours. If anyone wants to know anything, please ask.Cheers
Gary
fuoriserie said:
An electric threewheeler prototype.
http://www.hyperdriveinnovation.com/news/art/19/el...
http://hyperdriveinnovation.com/images/editor/Pure...
http://www.hyperdrivetechnologies.co.uk/images/cas...
Ha http://www.hyperdriveinnovation.com/news/art/19/el...
http://hyperdriveinnovation.com/images/editor/Pure...
http://www.hyperdrivetechnologies.co.uk/images/cas...
Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 23 September 11:41
this is ours. If anyone wants to know anything, please ask.Cheers
Gary
Edited by 3WheelDrift on Tuesday 3rd November 19:49
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff