Steve’s Really Pleased! But I’m not .
Discussion
I agree that steve should not resort to this type of tactic to sell his product. We have established that he is not going to set any records with his sales and tbh most people who buy it will also but KC mag or WK? or both. This publication has been advertised as a special occasional publication.
I looked at a position in sales so did some research and had some reading recommended amongst which was a book buy a guy called Frank Bettger, in which he said any sales man should be able to sell his product on its merits not by trying to degrade or bad mouth the opposition. If you do all you are doing is making your product look weaker when compared to the others. Let the customer make the comparison They're not idiots and don't need to be spoonfed.( btw I'm paraphrasing)
Steve should heed this advice as I do when put in a position to comment on the competitive products in my industry
I looked at a position in sales so did some research and had some reading recommended amongst which was a book buy a guy called Frank Bettger, in which he said any sales man should be able to sell his product on its merits not by trying to degrade or bad mouth the opposition. If you do all you are doing is making your product look weaker when compared to the others. Let the customer make the comparison They're not idiots and don't need to be spoonfed.( btw I'm paraphrasing)
Steve should heed this advice as I do when put in a position to comment on the competitive products in my industry
Wacky Racer said:
How are you reading it? 
Den
For a minute I thought you were feeling sorry for Fibs and his mag there....
btw, Den, I was going to ask......
I intend to purchase the Pilgrim Cobra build DVD when it is released, (just for interest you understand) as I missed the Sky programmes the first time round, and I was wondering what your "starring two minute role" was?? Were you in the background trying to look busy......or with your megaphone attempting to direct the production???
Den has a minor speaking role and there are lots of scenes at Pilgrim watching the chassis being made and the body laid up.
spartan_andy said:
I looked at a position in sales so did some research and had some reading recommended amongst which was a book buy a guy called Frank Bettger, in which he said any sales man should be able to sell his product on its merits not by trying to degrade or bad mouth the opposition. If you do all you are doing is making your product
I think Den should take note of that comment more than Steve Hole. Isn't that exactly what he's been doing for most of the year?
AFAIK there is no animosity between den and steve and steve is using generalised sweeping statements whereas den is raising awareness on specific points. Points which shouldn't be hidden.
Granted some of his methods leave a little to be desired however that issue has been addressed, resolved and hopefully put to bed
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Friday 12th December 10:13
Granted some of his methods leave a little to be desired however that issue has been addressed, resolved and hopefully put to bed
>> Edited by spartan_andy on Friday 12th December 10:13
kitcarman said:
I know there’s a danger that someone will speak of pots and kettles here, so I’ll point out that the mudslinging between Fib’s and myself has a VERY long and BITTER history. So far as I’m aware, I’ve done nothing to upset Steve that should prompt him to
attack in this way and for no gain.
BigRon said:BigRon and I do seem to have a communication problem, don’t we?
I think Den should take note of that comment more than Steve Hole. Isn't that exactly what he's been doing for most of the year?
Back in June I “lost it” Ron.
Spilled the beans! 
Lost my dummy! Went bananas! Then I refused to back-down until the matters were
settled. One by one the issues have settled. What I thought was going to be the easiest
, turned out to be the 
hardest. But Vince just settled that one too!
. In my previous 18 years in business I’d not done the like of it before and I hope I shall not have to do it again
. PeetBee said:PeetBee
There are also duplicated ads from Sureterm and Roadsure (who amongst others pay for two ads) by design. As you’ve indicated, it isn’t a problem.
. As I said “who amongst others pay for two ads” which is exactly what I mean. They ask for two ads, they pay for them both we place them both. Honest
It’s not that unusual in popular titles. Den
It's ok Den, I thought I'd just mention that I'd wondered why the ads were repeated, now I know.
I'm now going to see if my Dutton is still in the garage under the mound of rubbish that has accumulated in there since I last worked on it. I may need some help to tell the difference between the Dutton and the rubbish though!
Have a good weekend everyone.
I'm now going to see if my Dutton is still in the garage under the mound of rubbish that has accumulated in there since I last worked on it. I may need some help to tell the difference between the Dutton and the rubbish though!
Have a good weekend everyone.
. 
. Wacky Racer said:You’re a wise man Wacky
Look what happened to Hitler when he invaded Russia and decided to fight on two fronts
I’m not going to get cross
. peetbee said:Do us a favour, PeetBee. I know you’re a trustworthy guy
I have to admit that I've ordered a copy. . .
. Will you please pen 
a few words about what you think of it, and send them to me for the news pages of the February issue? I’ll
kill the blighter with kindness
. Had enough fighting for a life-time. Did you see his site today? It’s going to be a regular publication
. Den
kitcarman said:
Will you please pen
I'll do my best, when would the deadline be for that?
I've had an email from Steve, letting me know that it was delayed due to binding problems at the publishers/printers. So not received it yet, but he's not charging me until it's shipped.
Which is the way things should be done, how many times have you been charged for something immediately and it doesn't show up for a couple of weeks? Rant off!
I went to the tip today and I don't think I got rid of any Dutton bits that I needed, I guess time will tell!
Tomorow I'll take some photos as I wouldn't mind some advice on where to give the chassis extra bracing.
Cheers!
PeetBee said:
I'll do my best, when would the deadline be for that?
I've had an email from Steve, letting me know that it was delayed due to binding problems at the publishers/printers. So not received it yet, but he's not charging me until it's shipped.
Hopefully, that'll be why I haven't got mine yet.
Did you contact him to find out about the delay or did they contact you?
PeetBee said:We’re really hoping to have the Feb 04 issue all done and dusted by Wednesday
Will you please pen
, so you probably won’t be able to help for want of the magazine/guide. Never mind though. I’ll still put in a mention
simply to say that it’s out and follow up with a review in the March issue. So that gives you a month. Tell you what though. Since Ex-Biker and no doubt others have copies
on order. Why doesn’t one of you start a thread which is open to all others to add their views? I could then write a very short piece based upon a ‘pick ‘n mix’ of your various comments
. How does that sound
? Den
I spoke to Steve Hole earlier today
and he followed it up with an e-mail. This is what he had to say for himself
. and have to agree that he and I both share a hot blooded
and impulsive temperament 
.
Steve and I worked together for years and agree that we’d like to remain buddies. The fact that we’re now competing for sales of magazines isn’t going to cause us to loose sight of that overall objective.
His new magazine has arrived from the printers. It’s winging it’s way to all who’ve ordered it. I’m putting the following into the next Kit Car :- 
on the horizon. That’s good for all.
Nice one Steve
Den
and he followed it up with an e-mail. This is what he had to say for himself. SteveHole said:I’m satisfied with that
I do apologise for the swipe but like you mate (And you should know me well enough!) I do enjoy creating a bit of well-intended mischief occasionally.
A mag is in the post 1st class with my compliments. I'd value your honest opinion.
I think it's OK but then I would because I've spent so long eating, sleeping and breathing the bloody thing!
and have to agree that he and I both share a hot blooded and impulsive temperament . Steve and I worked together for years and agree
that we’d like to remain buddies. The fact that we’re now competing for sales of magazines isn’t going to cause us to loose sight of that overall objective. His new magazine has arrived from the printers
. It’s winging it’s way to all who’ve ordered it. I’m putting the following into the next Kit Car :- SteveHole said:So, it seems that there’s not another war
Steve Hole editor of Totalkitcar writes………….. “the Totalkitcar Almanac is out now. 148 pages packed with news, views, technical features, road tests and a pretty comprehensive industry guide section. Not available in the shops, the publication is intended to be an ideal companion to www.totalkitcar.com for those that can’t take their computers into the bath or on the bus! I learnt a lot working for Den Tanner and hopefully my own publication will be as successful as Kit~Car magazine. We’ll be publishing it quarterly, and we don’t claim it to be a magic Doc Holliday snake oil cure-all elixir and we certainly haven’t re-invented the wheel. However, we have tried hard to put something back into the industry we care so much about. In this first issue you can read about Ultima, Tiger R6, Magnum and Marlin 5EXi by respected writers of the calibre of Martin Foster, Rob Hawkins, Graham Bell and Steve Bennett. It costs £5.95 incl. p & p (Call or e-mail for overseas postal rates) which we think represents good value, especially given that it’s printed on heavyweight gloss art-paper . You can order securely online at www.totalkitcar.com or by telephoning 01883 372 085 while it will also be available from many major kitcar manufacturers”.
on the horizon. That’s good for all. Nice one Steve
Den
spartan_andy said:
as Kenny rogers, I think, says "it don't mean your weak if you turn the other cheek"
Listen to the rest of the song though, and it pretty much says that sometimes you can be pushed too far, and then it's time for action. So on that note:
"Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! etc..."
Den,
Had you contacted Steve first, instead of posting your (incorrect) fears about what he had said, this whole thread could have been avoided!
I don't like to take sides, and always try to state things as I see them, but this whole thread strikes me as nothing but a whinging, self pitying attempt at getting sympathy!
Sorry if this offends, but as I said, I say it as I see it!
I buy neither magazine on a regular basis and to be honest have avoided Kitcar whilst this stupid battle has been ongoing, due mainly to (in my opnion) your unprofessional conduct that you were just accusing Steve H of.
Hopefully things will return to normal and I will feel justified in buying your magazine again (content dependent), once you stop bringing up this battle.
As the proprietor of a national kit magazine it is your responsibility to be impartial and as professional as you can be. The readers do not want to hear about your personal battles! They want to know about the Kits and components available.
I understand that you are passionate about what you do and envey your position, however, you need to stand back at times and let things pass you by without reacting.
Remember the kit car market is not due to any one person or has a responsibility to any person or magazine. The role of your magazine is to service and further the kit car market, period.
Again, I'm sorry if this offends, but I despair at the constant bickering! Take a deep breath, shake hands or throw custard pies at each other if necessary and then get on with life!
Terry
still building his GP Spyder 13 years on.......is this a record?
>> Edited by Spyderman on Wednesday 17th December 14:48
Had you contacted Steve first, instead of posting your (incorrect) fears about what he had said, this whole thread could have been avoided!
I don't like to take sides, and always try to state things as I see them, but this whole thread strikes me as nothing but a whinging, self pitying attempt at getting sympathy!
Sorry if this offends, but as I said, I say it as I see it!
I buy neither magazine on a regular basis and to be honest have avoided Kitcar whilst this stupid battle has been ongoing, due mainly to (in my opnion) your unprofessional conduct that you were just accusing Steve H of.
Hopefully things will return to normal and I will feel justified in buying your magazine again (content dependent), once you stop bringing up this battle.
As the proprietor of a national kit magazine it is your responsibility to be impartial and as professional as you can be. The readers do not want to hear about your personal battles! They want to know about the Kits and components available.
I understand that you are passionate about what you do and envey your position, however, you need to stand back at times and let things pass you by without reacting.
Remember the kit car market is not due to any one person or has a responsibility to any person or magazine. The role of your magazine is to service and further the kit car market, period.
Again, I'm sorry if this offends, but I despair at the constant bickering! Take a deep breath, shake hands or throw custard pies at each other if necessary and then get on with life!
Terry
still building his GP Spyder 13 years on.......is this a record?
>> Edited by Spyderman on Wednesday 17th December 14:48
Terry,
I’m not sure that I agree that my fears
were “incorrect” as is evidenced by Steve’s apology:- 
to spill over into another p155ing contest. I thought a public
statement to that effect would do the job. It did!
Nick,
I fully agree with you!I’m all for moving on. Yes I know it’s been me on the offensive, but my points have now been made.
Den
I’m not sure that I agree that my fears
were “incorrect” as is evidenced by Steve’s apology:- SteveHole said:The last thing anybody wants is for a little ‘well-intended mischief’
I do apologise for the swipe. . . . I do enjoy creating a bit of well-intended mischief occasionally.
to spill over into another p155ing contest. I thought a public statement to that effect would do the job. It did! Nick,
I fully agree with you!
aprisa said:
. . . the more often you and others refer to the now declining battle the longer it will take to get back to normal.
Can we just all let it lie and get on with talking about KITCARS!!!
I’m all for moving on. Yes I know it’s been me on the offensive, but my points have now been made. Den
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