Who makes a front transverse engined kit?
Discussion
jay w said:Here’s my tuppence worth.
I'm sure a 2 seater car could be designed . . . .
The kit car market was built upon a four pronged demand.
1. People wanted sporty motors and back in the 1970’s and 1980’s there weren’t any. The kit car market (partially) filled that void. The demand these days is for something that’s different rather than sporty (as even the most basic production cars are sporty).
2. We used to be far more practical as a nation in respect to making do and mending. The possibility of re-housing a set of donor components into a resin rocket at minimal cost was very appealing to many folk. Particularly in the early 1980’s when a lot of ‘engineering’ people were being made redundant.
3. The fact that there were no practical controls on the registration of kit cars meant that anybody could build a car (either using their own devices or by buying a kit). This combined with 1 and 2 above made for a very buoyant market and a prolific number of designs. It also spawned an awful lot of ugly ducklings.
4. Replication of classic designs became commonplace. The difference here was that not only could all three of the objectives above be met (in varying degrees) but the end result promised to be worth the effort in financial terms.
The donors selected were those that were common and hence cheap at the time. Cortina, Marina, Escort RWD, VW Beetle, Triumph Herald and a few others. Over the past few years the Jaguar XJ and Sierra became the ‘standard’ for most (particularly replicas) and it’s in this area where the replica part of this industry is currently searching for a replacement.
Leaving the replica to one side for the moment, we’re left to ponder the sports car market and the demand for an economical ‘practical’ hobby. Until recently this area was served by a myriad Sierra based RWD designs. My prophesy is that these will wither on the vine as Sierra parts become ever scarcer.
Presently the replacement models in these two sectors are dealt with by two distinct camps. The Marlin 5exi, Aeon, Attack, Shelsley, Mojo and the like are sourcing commonly available parts but are using them in a way not originally intended. The result is brilliant performance at a relatively expensive price and a relatively complex build.
Developments are being made by the likes of Harlequin and Onyx who are faithfully using donor components as intended but have failed IMHO to achieve pleasing aesthetic designs. The other player in this game is Banham who’ve come up with decent looking products, but who IMHO haven’t gone far enough in engineering a ‘proper’ kit car.
I reckon that it’s only a matter of time before somebody makes a chassis as good as a Jester and clothes it with a body as good looking as one of Paul Banham’s designs. Whoever does that will do very well in this industry.
I’d like it to be you, Jay. Let’s see your ideas, please. My advice is to use as much as is possible from the donor. Even down to struts, loom, etc. If one could produce a kit with good looks, acceptable handling and easy build for around £3,000, I reckon he’d sell them like hot cakes. The industry needs somebody to make this dream a reality.
Den
Well put Den 
ferg said:
The Marlin 5exi, Aeon, Attack, Shelsley, Mojo
Oh come on Den, and my little car.
Sorry Ferg, we all know you've got a Fiat Multipla.
Oh yeh, and hasn't your missus got a Libra?
Seriously, how's the engine coming along?
Jay_W can you either post or email me a pic of the kit you designed (Coram LMP) as I'm ignorant and don't know it.
Yum! :quick thread hijack:
No, no connection - the Coram was a mid engined bike powered layout with the space for V6 & transaxle layout; a design from a clean sheet of paper that I started back in 1997 before the bike powered trend began. It started out as a rally car but I hit on the Le Mans styling theme in '98 in a bid to get the weight down and to give an excuse for some pretty dramatic styling!
The AGM WLR is a modern full-bodied design based on traditional Seven mechanicals AFAIK, although I see where the styling similarities lie.
/:quick thread hijack:
No, no connection - the Coram was a mid engined bike powered layout with the space for V6 & transaxle layout; a design from a clean sheet of paper that I started back in 1997 before the bike powered trend began. It started out as a rally car but I hit on the Le Mans styling theme in '98 in a bid to get the weight down and to give an excuse for some pretty dramatic styling!
The AGM WLR is a modern full-bodied design based on traditional Seven mechanicals AFAIK, although I see where the styling similarities lie.
/:quick thread hijack:
Yes the V8 bike engine was seriously looked at! Costs were in region of £16k for an engine, cost to us, plus the need for a custom transaxle. So we were looking at a cost of £20k plus our margin, putting the car up against the Noble etc in terms of cost (albeit with well over 600bhp/ton with significant downforce....)
Cyclone V8s based on two Yamaha Thunderace 1.0s are coming in at 15K these days. Seriously nice bits of kit, but a little costly.
Although, having said that, they told me at Autosport that the crank and case they've built has been rated at over 600bhp to allow for customers to add forced induction.
2.0 V8 with twin turbos anyone?
Don't think that will quite fit in with the low cost idea of the thread though, do you?
Although, having said that, they told me at Autosport that the crank and case they've built has been rated at over 600bhp to allow for customers to add forced induction.
2.0 V8 with twin turbos anyone?
Don't think that will quite fit in with the low cost idea of the thread though, do you?
Again you have to factor in the need for a transaxle, cos although these engines are bike based they don't come with the bike engine advantage of a nice sequential box fitted.
As these V8s get their power from high revs like bike engines do, you also need a custom set of ratios and final drive to keep the speed sensible, hence there may be more cost to factor in than is first apparent...
As these V8s get their power from high revs like bike engines do, you also need a custom set of ratios and final drive to keep the speed sensible, hence there may be more cost to factor in than is first apparent...
Right you asked for it - so here it is.
This is a 100% feasible design - not a styling sketch or artist's impression. Most of what I've been working on in the last 2 weeks is to make sure this is buildable.
I've started with a track day variant with a full cage and no doors. I'll post up a version with a screen and rollbar later. No firm thoughts as to a roof - could be a hardtop, a hard panel to go from screen to rollbar top only, a soft top - whatever you guys think!
Comments welcome both about styling details and about the styling theme I've taken. What were you expecting to see? Are there any bits you do / do not like?
edited to link to a larger version of the pic[/pic]
>> Edited by jay w on Friday 23 January 22:37
This is a 100% feasible design - not a styling sketch or artist's impression. Most of what I've been working on in the last 2 weeks is to make sure this is buildable.
I've started with a track day variant with a full cage and no doors. I'll post up a version with a screen and rollbar later. No firm thoughts as to a roof - could be a hardtop, a hard panel to go from screen to rollbar top only, a soft top - whatever you guys think!
Comments welcome both about styling details and about the styling theme I've taken. What were you expecting to see? Are there any bits you do / do not like?
edited to link to a larger version of the pic[/pic]
>> Edited by jay w on Friday 23 January 22:37
No Mark you really shouldn't have 
I'm trying to make round headlights (for use to get an MoT and to drive the car to and from the track) work in the design; they're off a Laguna at the moment.
Must apologise for the size of the wheels - these are 17" and the design spec would be 15". Fully feasible - pah!
Want one in blue, sir? Certainly sir.
I'm trying to make round headlights (for use to get an MoT and to drive the car to and from the track
) work in the design; they're off a Laguna at the moment. Must apologise for the size of the wheels - these are 17" and the design spec would be 15". Fully feasible - pah!
Want one in blue, sir? Certainly sir.
That looks pretty good.
Presumably as it's mainly a track car you'd be looking at a complete tilt/lift off front end?
If you're adding a windscreen, try and design things so you can use an off the shelf one if you can as it's obviously cheaper than getting one specially made.
Start looking carefully at all those boring Jap and Euro boxes for possibles.
Good luck!
Presumably as it's mainly a track car you'd be looking at a complete tilt/lift off front end?
If you're adding a windscreen, try and design things so you can use an off the shelf one if you can as it's obviously cheaper than getting one specially made.
Start looking carefully at all those boring Jap and Euro boxes for possibles.
Good luck!
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