What happened to MK Engineering/Road runner racing?

[MR2 Jon]

Just wondered if anyone knows if these guys are still going? Their website seems to have been down for quite a few months now :S

[MK INDY]

MK Engineering is still going strong, http://www.mkengineering.co.uk/ with his latest project.
"Roadrunner Racing" and the single seater track/roadcar,although they had a few orders for cars,there was not enough orders to make it viable.
So now Kevin at Roadrunner is developing a very nice seven type car,this will be ready to go into production in the next few weeks,its MX5 doner based kit,it looks awesome bit of kit,I am sure we will be seeing and hearing alot about this company over the next few months.

Edited by MK INDY on Friday 13th November 12:26

[MR2 Jon]

Oh cool good to hear they’re still going. I mistakenly thought MK Engineering turned into Road Runner Racing and that was just an old site. I’ve always liked the look of their cars and will wait with interest to see how the new one turns out.

Do you know if they still make parts for the Sprint-R? I always fancied one.

Thanks

[MK INDY]

MR2 Jon said:

Oh cool good to hear they’re still going. I mistakenly thought MK Engineering turned into Road Runner Racing and that was just an old site. I’ve always liked the look of their cars and will wait with interest to see how the new one turns out.

Do you know if they still make parts for the Sprint-R? I always fancied one.

Thanks

The new seven Kevin at Roadrunner is building is going to be a bit special,I would go so far as to advise anyone thinking of building any seven type car,to wait until this car is put to market,before they decide what to build,it will be worth the wait.
He is still giving back up to owners of any Sprint-R's they have sold,and I am sure he would build you one,if you wanted one.

Edited by MK INDY on Friday 13th November 14:24

[Russ Bost]

OOh! OOh! A new 7 kit. That's just what we need! & so imaginative! After all there's only about 50 odd manufacturers all making variations of the same thing, this makes 51, only another 6 to go & we'll have the full 57 varieties, maybe the 57th one will be made from old baked bean cans to be eco friendly

The true story ttbomk is that Martin Keenan (who is a thoroughly good bloke BTW) did all the work with the first locost chassis (plural) & then sold out the MK business to his brother(s) who are still trading making the various 7 clones/variations. I think they are called MK cars?

Martin (now MK engineering) then embarked on the Road Runner Sprint (originally MK Sprint?) which he made a few of & then sold out to the current owner, Kevin, I believe Kevin has had some financial problems with a non paying customer, possibly for a no. of kits??? But I think he's still producing the kit as required (I stand to be corrected on any of this!).

Meanwhile Martin has busied himself with actually trying to keep up with the current century/market & has produced his very nice mid engined kit - shame it still looks like a 7 from the front, but don't blame him as the general "herd" quite obviously lack imagination (hence why they are stuck unable to move forward from a 50 year old design!). I believe one of the reasons he dropped the Sprint is that he discovered a single seater has limited appeal after the first few outings. Of course, you could always have what looks like a single seater, with the looks of a current F1 car, but actually has 2 seats - OMG! wait someones already making one called the Furore F1 - OH! it's me whoops!

[MK INDY]

You speak of lack of imagination on the part of the above manufacturers,while your best effort is a very poor attempt at just copying a F1 car for the road,ending up with something that looks in my opinion a real abomination,which I could only see appealing to a five year old,say what you like about new seven type car designs,but the reason there's so many out there is that they sell,they sell because of there classic looks,they appeal to all ages,and people would not be embarrassed to be seen driving one,which is more than could be said for your kit.

[kennyrayandersen]

People want something that they’ve dreamed of owning which is usually a car that’s already out there. When someone else builds a new car from scratch, it’s their dream. If it’s really good, other people will get on board. Harsh truth be told -- so many kit cars just look like walking turds sans the brown color. It’s really no wonder at all why they come and go with such a high frequency. The 7 and close 7 offshoots are primarily about function. There aren’t many kits that handle as well, accelerate as well or are as easy to put together [or even look as good]. New cars do break out from time to time and do well like the whole Jeremy Phillips lot, but he is the exception and not the rule. I’m a bit over 50 and have been watching the kitcar market for a long time. It’s actually sad to see some guy spend his hard-earned money developing some dream that you can just tell from the git-go is going nowhere – it’s like watching a slow train wreck. I’m not trying to be a downer or anything; it’s just a bit of a warning and an explanation of why your observation is happening. Stateside, it’s nearly nothing but Cobras – same deal, pretty much same reason. Fortunately 7s are starting to catch on a bit – which thing I’ve been waiting some time for. We don’t have the same saturation of 7s that exists in the UK.

[Russ Bost]

Well I've obviously rattled someones cage Mr MK Indy, Paul, absolutely no need to get abusive, personal, spiteful or nasty; play nicely children!

I'm happy to know that ALL I've done is copied a F1 car for the road, it is after all such an easy thing to do, I'm interested to know you think it's an abomination, (would also be VERY interested to know where you've viewed it? Oh! You haven't ......Ahhh!) could we perhaps be constructive here & you could suggest a few things that could be improved? I am well aware that my design is not everybodies cup of tea, in fact I refer to it as the "Marmite car" for that very reason, nevertheless, despite the fact that the car has never really been advertised as such, until now, I have sold 6 cars, don't know what that says, perhaps that there are a few other people out there with no taste??? or perhaps a few of us just like to thumb our noses at the establishment. As regards its looks, the McLaren mechanics didn't appear to mind having it parked next to their car recently



& you will see at a glance that in fact it is not a copy, or replica of anything, it merely apes the appearance of a modern F1, & is intended as pure fun, fun, fun - I would also add that we collected 3 times what the McLaren boys collected for charity as we actually let people sit in ours!


I actually did my best to put the topic back on track & answer the OP's Q of what happened to MK, the other comments were just passing remarks about the futility of bringing yet another 7 clone to market, unless it does something very special indeed; it's got an awful lot of competition. If you want a trackday car you have the Jeremy Phillips cars, or perhaps the Dax Rush with it's camber compensation, something more established? a Caterfield perhaps: inboard suspension? the MNR springs to mind, more modern looks, the Toniq - what I'm saying is, it's all been done b4, & don't tell me the MX5 donor is new as I can think of at least 2 already doing it. I honestly feel it's about time the 7 market had a bit of a revamp & actually came into the 21st century, using modern front wheel drive donors with mid engined configuration, just the sort of thing that Jeremy Phillips & Martin Keenan have done.

Apologies to the OP for thread stealing!

[Sam_68]

kennyrayandersen said:

...been watching the kitcar market for a long time. It’s actually sad to see some guy spend his hard-earned money developing some dream that you can just tell from the git-go is going nowhere – it’s like watching a slow train wreck.

As a long-term follower of the UK kit car market, I'd echo this completely.

Full credit to all those who 'live the dream' and build their own car, the way they want it, but most people are waaay too optimistic about the business prospects of their creations. There have been many really good kit cars that have only sold a handful, and companies that have been a long-term commercial success are very few and far between.

You can usually spot the half-baked failures (too niche, poorly resolved aesthetics, flawed engineering) and commecrially unviable projects (replicas of cars that simply don't have enough of a following to be a commercial success - Pantera and 037 replicas spring to mind) a mile off, and it gets a bit depressing after a while.

But I also have to say that I agree completely with Russ... if you can't come up with anything more imaginative than yet another Seven clone, you might as well not bother. If you think you can create something that's a genuine technical advance over all the other Seven clones, or fills a sub-niche not yet exploited, then fine, but otherwise why bother adding to an already over-saturated market place?

[Ferg]

I'd chip my opinion in too and say that at the moment I think that success with a BRAND NEW model in the kitcar world (should anyone be mad enough to do this), would be more likely with a non-seven.
The point above with regard to a saturated market is a very good one.
Jeremy Phillips seems to prove that it is possible to launch sell-able cars.

[singlecoil]

I've got something to say about this too, and that is that some kit car manufacturing projects are actually over-funded! The people involved pay out for high levels of everything required, premises, materials, staff, parts, materials, equipment etc etc. Then they look for the profit on the sales to repay that original investment, which, of course it can't. I'm not going to mention any names because I don't want to get into any arguments about specific cases, but I'm sure we can all think of one or more examples.

[seansverige]

So what the industry needs is someone talented enough to develop a product with market appeal, but brave (stupid?) enough to avoid the easiest option, i.e. a Seven. I would argue a non-Seven offers the greatest reward but also the greatest risk - and the drive & vision necessary to bring such a venture to market also preclude taking constructive criticism onboard. This is why I think a rebody makes sense as a middle way, start with an Seven / exo and then base the next model on it. Although the chassis is fact different, isn't this in essence what Stuart Mills did with Rocket & Sonic 7.

Singlecoil also makes a good point, often the business case / approach is as unsophisticated as the product itself: customers don't care what you've invested and therefore have to recoup (and why should they?) - only what value it represents vs. the competition. It's quite common to see a project offered for sale with a valuation based on what's been invested, NOT turnover - WTF? And this hopeless optimism isn't the sole preserve of the kitcar sector - witness the Noble M600. I hope I'm wrong, but 200k x 50, p.a., in UK alone??

Back to the kitcar market thread...

Edited by seansverige on Saturday 14th November 13:18

[Russ Bost]

"This is why I think a rebody makes sense as a middle way, start with an Seven / exo and then base the next model on it"

That's exactly what AGM Sportscars have done with the WLR le mans style car, beefed the chassis up & gone for bigger engines like V8's etc, but it's still essentially a 7 chassis underneath. To my mind this shows a great deal more aplomb than just copying what everyone else is doing & at least the car both looks up to date & is a little more practical than a 7.

[seansverige]

"...a little more practical than a 7"

Really? Don't get me wrong, lightyears ahead of the Tiger Storm or that YKC rebody (formula 27??) but IIRC it didn't, for example, offer significantly more weather protection than a 7 or are the other areas in which in improved on it? Did AGM offer a 7 first or just this?

As well as nice new dress, my top three for a seven rebody would be full weatherproofing, heater, and enough stowage for a long weekend.

Continue this here? http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Ferg]

seansverige said:

full weatherproofing,

On a Seven? Both ridiculously difficult/expensive to achieve in relation to the cost of a Seven OR equally difficult to get in and out of!

Edited by Ferg on Saturday 14th November 16:18

[seansverige]

Agreed. For my own project this was the reason I moved towards a mid-7 and ultimately looking at the Sonic7 - the J15 is a lovely machine but still has a transmission tunnel and snug cockpit. Ingress / egress will still be long way from graceful but not much less so and a reasonable trade off for the additional practicality / useability.

[MR2 Jon]

I've just read through the rest of the replies and there have been some good points made.

Personally I would like to see manufactures design a car with some real consideration for aero. I really like Radicals but unfortunately they are way out of my price range.

I'll keep my eye on the latest MK offering anyway. My current favorite 7 car is the Sylva riot  so it'll be interesting to read some reviews and see how it stacks up.

[Joe T]

I may be wrong but I would guess most kit manufacturers would never recoup the cost of wind tunnel testing. Although maybe some designs are more Aero then others.

Its interesting to see the feelings on more seven type cars, I suppose its a matter of whether there is any room for improvement over whats already available.

[rypt]

Joe T said:

I may be wrong but I would guess most kit manufacturers would never recoup the cost of wind tunnel testing

You don't HAVE to wind tunnel test to get a decent improvement over what is currently out there, some CFD on a computer can provide some equally good results.

[Sam_68]

rypt said:

Joe T said:

I may be wrong but I would guess most kit manufacturers would never recoup the cost of wind tunnel testing

You don't HAVE to wind tunnel test to get a decent improvement over what is currently out there, some CFD on a computer can provide some equally good results.

You don't even need CFD; just a lttle bit of knowledge and understanding (and maybe a ball of wool) can work wonders... as Joe T ought to be well aware, being a minor disciple of Frank Costin.

You don't even need that much knowledge or understanding (or the ball of wool) to literally leave the average Seven floundering in your wake, though, as anyone who has seen owned a Sylva Phoenix/Fisher Fury will know.

You might be surprised how cheap wind tunnel testing can be, mind you - last time I had any involvement, you were talking hundreds rather than thousands for an off-peak slot in the MIRA tunnel. Easy enough to recoup in marketing terms if you take advantage of the extra 'professionalism' it endows your product with by splashing a few photos of the wind tunnel testing on your sales literature, press releases and motor show displays.