Group C replica Mazda 787B
Discussion
Thanks for the positive comments!
I do try to manufacture all the parts of the car myself. I work using an old Bridgeport milling machine with a rotary table and a 12" Harrison lathe mainly. I really want to be able to say I have made the car myself and being the one to actually manufacture all the parts really gives you an insight into manufacturing (in)accuracies and ways to reduce machining time etc. I have had a bit of help with machining some of the large threads but apart from that its all my own work. Bearing fits and vertical boring on the mill are the most challenging tasks but quite rewarding..
I spent a lot of time the weekend before last with my devoted Fiancee, sanding down the frame to remove all the surface rust that has built up. We then painted it with a red oxide primer just to prevent any further oxidation occurring. Although not complete it was nice to gain an insight into what it could look like in a finished state..
I've also stripped down the Audi engine to make sure all is ok internally and to see if there was anything I could leave off during installation into the chassis. It was interesting to see how advanced the engine is. It has a crank scraper, oil drains from the valley routed back the oil pump and a sump interface casting that I have found I will be able to remove completely, fabricating my own dry-sump system and losing around 40/50mm in engine height!
I do try to manufacture all the parts of the car myself. I work using an old Bridgeport milling machine with a rotary table and a 12" Harrison lathe mainly. I really want to be able to say I have made the car myself and being the one to actually manufacture all the parts really gives you an insight into manufacturing (in)accuracies and ways to reduce machining time etc. I have had a bit of help with machining some of the large threads but apart from that its all my own work. Bearing fits and vertical boring on the mill are the most challenging tasks but quite rewarding..
I spent a lot of time the weekend before last with my devoted Fiancee, sanding down the frame to remove all the surface rust that has built up. We then painted it with a red oxide primer just to prevent any further oxidation occurring. Although not complete it was nice to gain an insight into what it could look like in a finished state..
I've also stripped down the Audi engine to make sure all is ok internally and to see if there was anything I could leave off during installation into the chassis. It was interesting to see how advanced the engine is. It has a crank scraper, oil drains from the valley routed back the oil pump and a sump interface casting that I have found I will be able to remove completely, fabricating my own dry-sump system and losing around 40/50mm in engine height!
Just got 'note' of this thread through this thread;
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Bookmarked, i know i'm going to loose many hours pouring over this!
Great stuff! Top man!
LOVE the 787b Always have!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Bookmarked, i know i'm going to loose many hours pouring over this!
Great stuff! Top man!
LOVE the 787b Always have!
Did I read that right?
You're putting an Audi V8 in it?
I think you have to go see a wankel engined race car (there is at least one wankel engined Chevron to realise just how wrong it will sound. Everyone who knos what a 787 is will know its not real from very significant distance. Even putting an exhaust on the Audi motor which gives pure 180 deg exhaust pulses like a single plane, won't cut it.
This car here http://www.historicmotorracing.co.uk/article_detai... makes the right kind of sound and its only a 2 rotor. A really neat and compact engine/transaxle package - it did very well at Classic Spa Francorchamps weekend before last.
You're putting an Audi V8 in it?
I think you have to go see a wankel engined race car (there is at least one wankel engined Chevron to realise just how wrong it will sound. Everyone who knos what a 787 is will know its not real from very significant distance. Even putting an exhaust on the Audi motor which gives pure 180 deg exhaust pulses like a single plane, won't cut it.
This car here http://www.historicmotorracing.co.uk/article_detai... makes the right kind of sound and its only a 2 rotor. A really neat and compact engine/transaxle package - it did very well at Classic Spa Francorchamps weekend before last.
An Audi engine? :-S
You sure?
Appreciate those that aren't that experienced with rotaries get very nervous around them, but the reality is this;
1. I've raced with them for years (Over 10). If built properly and looked after properly they are zero hassle.
2. The noise is absolutely distinctive, you won't get near with a piston engine.
3. The power for weight of the engine is superb. Normally aspirated peripheral port on injection will get you close to 300bhp with sportscar manifolds, from an engine two of us could pick up with our hands.
4. It's low down, it's in the right place.
5. Loads of spares available.
Hope this isn't moving from an enigmatic recreation to a pale fascimile..
S.
Hi everyone, sorry for the huge delay... The main reason for no updates is there hasn't really been any progress. Having gotten engaged as well as saving for a house, funds have been in short supply. I have put my limited funds towards converting my lathe to CNC control. It took many weekends and evenings of fabricating, wiring and setting up but I have just gotten it working!! I haven't made anything all that useful yet but have a few chess-pieces sat on kitchen table now!! Paying other people to make all the one-off parts was getting a little expensive but now I can do it in-house and all I should have to worry about is materials and consumables costs, much better than the machine shop £40/h...Also, previous to starting this car project I was tinkering with a limited run of BMX frames and hubs, (again made by myself) for friends and locals. This has picked up again now and gives me a bit more £ to carry on with the car.
As I thought I had already mentioned in earlier posts, the Audi engine is only there to get the thing up and running. It was cheap and powerful straight out the box and also very light. Two people can easily pick it up, still with heads and intake attached. Anyway, the long term aim is obviously to be using a rotary engine of some form, be out of an RX7 or else something a bit more exotic... The more I look in to it, the more I'm thinking I should just sell the Audi and get a rotary engine to put in there. Any suggestions anyone on where to get a decent example?? I don't normally like the idea of buying an engine already removed from a car since you really can't tell much about it's condition - much better to get one that's still running and yet to be removed from the car.
Either way, work should be picking up again from now on. I'll post updates as soon as I can.
As I thought I had already mentioned in earlier posts, the Audi engine is only there to get the thing up and running. It was cheap and powerful straight out the box and also very light. Two people can easily pick it up, still with heads and intake attached. Anyway, the long term aim is obviously to be using a rotary engine of some form, be out of an RX7 or else something a bit more exotic... The more I look in to it, the more I'm thinking I should just sell the Audi and get a rotary engine to put in there. Any suggestions anyone on where to get a decent example?? I don't normally like the idea of buying an engine already removed from a car since you really can't tell much about it's condition - much better to get one that's still running and yet to be removed from the car.
Either way, work should be picking up again from now on. I'll post updates as soon as I can.
Rob,
You must have been eating your spinach, my reference material has an Audi V8 dry at 180kg. A rotary 13B will be under half that.. Whatever the exact numbers, it's much lighter. And I suppose has the added bonus of protecting your house from arson by the motley collection of rotary worshippers who might spot it and follow you home. ;-)
As ever with engine purchase, what is it you are looking to achieve power wise? That will dictate the level of tune required and therefore your options for sourcing.
S.
Yeah I guess I must have been feeling strong that day!! The more I read up on the rotaries the more I'm impressed. It seems I could quite easily slash 100kg of the total vehicle weight from what you are saying. Bearing in mind I was estimating 600-700kg with the Audi, that's a fairly substantial weight reduction! I guess I'll be aiming for somewhere around the 300bhp mark to start with which I think is fairly easy to achieve with the turbo engine from the 3rd gen RX7. A peripheral port would be awesome though....
300bhp very achievable with an fd turbo unit, but also available with a normally aspirated 13b with peripherals. I know someone who runs one of those in a historic group c car too.
Choice is around whether to carry ancillaries etc.
Happy to have a good chat about all the uk rotary vendors. Just mail me. Have significant direct or indirect experience with pretty much all if them.
Alternatively these engines are simpler than they appear. If you are mechanically minded it's eminently achievable yourself.
S.
Saw this and immediately thought of this thread. Have a spare £19k? 
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/37727/mazda_...
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/37727/mazda_...
Heres what it should sounmd like. My ears are still ringing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXQ0vDVZ-ts
JTeb said:
Saw this and immediately thought of this thread. Have a spare £19k?
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/37727/mazda_...
surely breaking this could pay for the engine...http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/37727/mazda_...
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/36930/1981_m...
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