Group C replica Mazda 787B
Discussion
AtomicRex said:
If you are going to build a 787....then how about you let me build you either a 3 or a 4 rotor to go in it??
whilst this isn't the easiest thing, it's not the biggest hurdle you're encountering on this project and to be honest is the essence of a 787 IMHO. And that sound...
As promised, some pics of my front upright and hub designs:
I am hopijng to source the bearings and materials this week and then start manufacturing!
Chuntington101 - you do have a keen eye! yes that is a 350 chevy i had modelled in that particular view. I do intend to make most common powerplants able to fit in the car (within reason). The Audi v8 is to my knowledge one of the more bulky engines to fit in a tight engine compartment. It may be very short but it is also very wide and quite tall. A chevrolet LS1 powerplant for example is longer but also not as tall or as wide. Obviously rotary engines should not be a problem to fit in there, as well as inline fours and V6s.
The chassis itself will have basic mounts to which engine mounts specific to the engine choice can be bolted. Computer models of even very common engines are so hard to come by, the old chevy model was one I found on the net on some off-road buggy forum i think. It would be interesting to see what else would fit in there if anyone has any overall dimensions pf any popular engines?
AtomicRex - A 3/4 rotor engine would obviously be my engine of choice for a more authentic sound! Have you ever put one together before? When i did a search before all i came up with was some guy the other side of the world in Japan I think. Also, I second Dom9s comment and would be very interested to know if you ever produce any bodies using the 962 moulds!
I am hopijng to source the bearings and materials this week and then start manufacturing!
Chuntington101 - you do have a keen eye! yes that is a 350 chevy i had modelled in that particular view. I do intend to make most common powerplants able to fit in the car (within reason). The Audi v8 is to my knowledge one of the more bulky engines to fit in a tight engine compartment. It may be very short but it is also very wide and quite tall. A chevrolet LS1 powerplant for example is longer but also not as tall or as wide. Obviously rotary engines should not be a problem to fit in there, as well as inline fours and V6s.
The chassis itself will have basic mounts to which engine mounts specific to the engine choice can be bolted. Computer models of even very common engines are so hard to come by, the old chevy model was one I found on the net on some off-road buggy forum i think. It would be interesting to see what else would fit in there if anyone has any overall dimensions pf any popular engines?
AtomicRex - A 3/4 rotor engine would obviously be my engine of choice for a more authentic sound! Have you ever put one together before? When i did a search before all i came up with was some guy the other side of the world in Japan I think. Also, I second Dom9s comment and would be very interested to know if you ever produce any bodies using the 962 moulds!
Edited by RobBiggs on Tuesday 19th January 20:05
Four rotor "kit" based on 13b housings with a billet e-shaft.
Price is in Australian dollars fwiw.
http://www.kiwi-re.com/wwd_showroom_cat10_2.php
There are more and more of these popping up in cars lately, typically RX-7s and at least two RX-8's. There is even a BMW drag car sporting a turbo 4-rotor.
Price is in Australian dollars fwiw.
http://www.kiwi-re.com/wwd_showroom_cat10_2.php
There are more and more of these popping up in cars lately, typically RX-7s and at least two RX-8's. There is even a BMW drag car sporting a turbo 4-rotor.
AtomicRex said:
The engine wouldnt be a problem....best thing you can do is give me a buzz. Im over in the states building engines, but Im back late next week.
In the 2 years you have been in the rotary business John Ive not known of 1 single engine you have built, you advertise on another forum that Carl maintains your engine, your race cars you started to build 4 years ago still dont have engines.You may have been in the States but I would doubt you have been building engines out there.
Can you provide any customers that will vouch for 1 of your engines.
Im all for helping rob with a great project and free enterprize, but please be honest about it, dont try and bull s**t money out of him.
There are a handfull of 4 rotors in the world, these are very rare. And to date only one engine builder in the UK has built 1 that has run correctly.
Thats not to say some of the other specialist cant, they probably have not had the opertunity.
Later I can upload to my site if you are interested in reading , I have a spec sheet on the car, diamentions etc and a 10 page paper on the original engine.
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Manuals_and_L...
You can get a good idea of material costs here, genuine Mazda
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/New_Mazda_RX7...
4 rotor parts
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/RotaryArt_spe...
other performance parts
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/RotaryArt_eng...
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/East_Coast_Pa...
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Performance_T...
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/East_Coast_Pa...
just a few to get you started on parts and prices.
Oh John you might need this
http://www.diy-re.uk.com/
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Manuals_and_L...
You can get a good idea of material costs here, genuine Mazda
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/New_Mazda_RX7...
4 rotor parts
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/RotaryArt_spe...
other performance parts
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/RotaryArt_eng...
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/East_Coast_Pa...
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Performance_T...
http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/East_Coast_Pa...
just a few to get you started on parts and prices.
Oh John you might need this
http://www.diy-re.uk.com/
RobBiggs said:
As promised, some pics of my front upright and hub designs:
I am hopijng to source the bearings and materials this week and then start manufacturing!
Chuntington101 - you do have a keen eye! yes that is a 350 chevy i had modelled in that particular view. I do intend to make most common powerplants able to fit in the car (within reason). The Audi v8 is to my knowledge one of the more bulky engines to fit in a tight engine compartment. It may be very short but it is also very wide and quite tall. A chevrolet LS1 powerplant for example is longer but also not as tall or as wide. Obviously rotary engines should not be a problem to fit in there, as well as inline fours and V6s.
The chassis itself will have basic mounts to which engine mounts specific to the engine choice can be bolted. Computer models of even very common engines are so hard to come by, the old chevy model was one I found on the net on some off-road buggy forum i think. It would be interesting to see what else would fit in there if anyone has any overall dimensions pf any popular engines?
AtomicRex - A 3/4 rotor engine would obviously be my engine of choice for a more authentic sound! Have you ever put one together before? When i did a search before all i came up with was some guy the other side of the world in Japan I think. Also, I second Dom9s comment and would be very interested to know if you ever produce any bodies using the 962 moulds!
Rob, i dont have that keen an eye mate! I am hopijng to source the bearings and materials this week and then start manufacturing!
Chuntington101 - you do have a keen eye! yes that is a 350 chevy i had modelled in that particular view. I do intend to make most common powerplants able to fit in the car (within reason). The Audi v8 is to my knowledge one of the more bulky engines to fit in a tight engine compartment. It may be very short but it is also very wide and quite tall. A chevrolet LS1 powerplant for example is longer but also not as tall or as wide. Obviously rotary engines should not be a problem to fit in there, as well as inline fours and V6s.
The chassis itself will have basic mounts to which engine mounts specific to the engine choice can be bolted. Computer models of even very common engines are so hard to come by, the old chevy model was one I found on the net on some off-road buggy forum i think. It would be interesting to see what else would fit in there if anyone has any overall dimensions pf any popular engines?
AtomicRex - A 3/4 rotor engine would obviously be my engine of choice for a more authentic sound! Have you ever put one together before? When i did a search before all i came up with was some guy the other side of the world in Japan I think. Also, I second Dom9s comment and would be very interested to know if you ever produce any bodies using the 962 moulds!
Edited by RobBiggs on Tuesday 19th January 20:05
what material are you making the hubs out of? Ally or Mag? Also what thickness are they? Looks like you could maybe make them a little thicker.... Also are you running cooling air through the hubs?? Is this what mazda did? Very intresting and a great way to keep the wheel bearing temps down! not sure how it will effect the brake temps.... they looks pretty beefy though!
I have to say the more i look at the chassis the more i like it! It looks VERY over engineered, which is great. The only question i would have is the conection between the front and rear hoops. Is there romm to put another bar in there like the Ultima dose? just thinking that would beable to transmit more force to the front hoop that could then distribute that force again....
I think its a good idea to keep the engine compartment as open as possable, it will make it easy to keep the engine cool. I also think the LS series of engines would be a great choice! OK they are not like the original Mazda enignes but is that a bad thing? 600+bhp is more than doable from a LS3 crate engine with a cam swap, standalone ECU, heards, heads, and ITB throttle boddies! Might be worth having a look on LS1tech.com see if any of those guys have a CAD drawing of the LS engine....
What gearbox are you planning on running?
Cheers,
Chris.
AtomicRex said:
I have access to the moulds, they have been used once to pull a copy from. This was then used to fit onto a modified ultima chassis.
Im not in a position to get any pictures at the moment, but when I get back next week I will sort something out.
Brilliant - Thanks Rex.Im not in a position to get any pictures at the moment, but when I get back next week I will sort something out.
Look forward to seeing them!
The spaceframe is made from a high tensile strength steel, clubman 500 from Elmdon metals. It has superior mechanical properties to mild steel but still retains ductility. This means that in a shunt it will deform and absorb energy in preference to fracture. Bare weight of the chassis is going to be in the region of 120kg. Projected vehicle weight is around 800kgs.
The front roll hoop and connecting brace actually do very little (in relative terms) to stiffen up the structure. The rest of the frame is fully triangulated meaning that no tube is under bending loads, and are instead under direct compression/tension. This is how I achieved good torsional and beaming stiffness values. The front hoop and brace are there more for piece of mind. Thankyou for pointing this out though. I have a feeling the ultima having two may be down to some roll cage specification where the vehicle is used for racing puposes.
Hubs are machined from EN24T high strength steel, upright and associated bracketry machined from 6082 T6 aircraft grade aluminium. The idea with the cooling is that cold air is forced through the holes in the upright, over and around the bearing housing and out through the disc vanes. Im not entirely sure what Mazda did on the 787. I do know many of the cars of the era even had twin calipers clamping on one disc though!
The front roll hoop and connecting brace actually do very little (in relative terms) to stiffen up the structure. The rest of the frame is fully triangulated meaning that no tube is under bending loads, and are instead under direct compression/tension. This is how I achieved good torsional and beaming stiffness values. The front hoop and brace are there more for piece of mind. Thankyou for pointing this out though. I have a feeling the ultima having two may be down to some roll cage specification where the vehicle is used for racing puposes.
Hubs are machined from EN24T high strength steel, upright and associated bracketry machined from 6082 T6 aircraft grade aluminium. The idea with the cooling is that cold air is forced through the holes in the upright, over and around the bearing housing and out through the disc vanes. Im not entirely sure what Mazda did on the 787. I do know many of the cars of the era even had twin calipers clamping on one disc though!
Edited by RobBiggs on Wednesday 20th January 19:35
fuoriserie said:
singlecoil said:
fuoriserie said:
I've always liked the Mazda RX792P and I used it a few times to sketch my idea of a road going version.
Images of the car:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4249/Mazda-RX-7...
Couldn't see anything on the link apart from a dieting advert, but would be more interested to see your sketches of the road version anywayImages of the car:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4249/Mazda-RX-7...
Edited by singlecoil on Saturday 2nd January 10:57
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-IMSAs-Legendary-Race-...
has a chapter in it on the 792, havent read it all yet, but if your into these style of cars, you will love it i think.
Regards Ryan
ezakimak said:
fuoriserie said:
singlecoil said:
fuoriserie said:
I've always liked the Mazda RX792P and I used it a few times to sketch my idea of a road going version.
Images of the car:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4249/Mazda-RX-7...
Couldn't see anything on the link apart from a dieting advert, but would be more interested to see your sketches of the road version anywayImages of the car:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4249/Mazda-RX-7...
Edited by singlecoil on Saturday 2nd January 10:57
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-IMSAs-Legendary-Race-...
has a chapter in it on the 792, havent read it all yet, but if your into these style of cars, you will love it i think.
Regards Ryan
Thank you for pointing out the book to me.....
Italo
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