Any experience of a Raffo Belva?
Discussion
Guys, new to here and currently own a Banham X99, which is for sale. Have my eye on the Raffo Belva and wondered if anyone on here has experience of said motor.
Any advise/suggestions would be appreciated. I am hoping to use it as an everyday runabout if possible.
>>> Edited by rickbrown74 on Wednesday 18th February 16:07
Any advise/suggestions would be appreciated. I am hoping to use it as an everyday runabout if possible.
>>> Edited by rickbrown74 on Wednesday 18th February 16:07
As I understand it the Belva is not currently in production. The original designer sold the project on (was it to Harlequin? I'm not sure) and I don't think there are any being produced right now at this moment, although that may change. Only a few were made to start with (I don't think they made double figures, or if they did not too far into them), and I know one of them was crashed.
So I think you're out of luck for getting a Belva kit just at the moment, but I would keep your eyes and ears open.
Regards,
Justin
So I think you're out of luck for getting a Belva kit just at the moment, but I would keep your eyes and ears open.
Regards,
Justin
Hi Rick, and welcome to Pistonheads.
The original Belva prototype was at one stage owned by a Pistonheader who sadly crashed it avoiding some bird. You should be able to find the thread if you fancy taking the time to go back far enough.
Production rights are now with Harlequin who are doing some development work and hope to resume production mid-year.
The original Belva prototype was at one stage owned by a Pistonheader who sadly crashed it avoiding some bird. You should be able to find the thread if you fancy taking the time to go back far enough.
Production rights are now with Harlequin who are doing some development work and hope to resume production mid-year.
Not entirely relevant, perhaps, but since no Belva owners have yet posted a response to your request...
I used to own a Raffo Tipo 12, and rated it as a very good car. The handling was superb and the quality of the chassis, both in design and manufacturing terms, was excellent.
The bodywork looked very amatuerish in design (in complete contrast to the Belva, which looks great IMHO) but the actual quality of the fibreglass was very good.
It tried to kill me only once, when a bolt in the rear suspension sheared as I landed after going airborn over a hump at a three-figure speed on a country road. The cylinder head gaskets on the Alfa Boxer engine used to blow about once a fortnight, but as I has araldited up the centrifugal cut-out on the rotor arm and regularly revved it to nearly 8,000rpm (official rev. limit 5,500), I can't really blame the car for that, and certainly not John Raffo!
If somebody would build a Tipo 12 with a more powerful boxer engine (Subaru, perhaps?) and pretty bodywork, it would be close to perfect.
I have heard rumours that the handling of the Belva was never completely sorted, but knowing John Raffo's reputation and experience, I am sure that this is fine shades of distinction compared against the near perfection of similar cars like the Elise and GTM Libra.
No disrespect, but if you are trading up from a Banham, I don't think you'd have any complaints about the Belva.
I used to own a Raffo Tipo 12, and rated it as a very good car. The handling was superb and the quality of the chassis, both in design and manufacturing terms, was excellent.
The bodywork looked very amatuerish in design (in complete contrast to the Belva, which looks great IMHO) but the actual quality of the fibreglass was very good.
It tried to kill me only once, when a bolt in the rear suspension sheared as I landed after going airborn over a hump at a three-figure speed on a country road. The cylinder head gaskets on the Alfa Boxer engine used to blow about once a fortnight, but as I has araldited up the centrifugal cut-out on the rotor arm and regularly revved it to nearly 8,000rpm (official rev. limit 5,500), I can't really blame the car for that, and certainly not John Raffo!
If somebody would build a Tipo 12 with a more powerful boxer engine (Subaru, perhaps?) and pretty bodywork, it would be close to perfect.
I have heard rumours that the handling of the Belva was never completely sorted, but knowing John Raffo's reputation and experience, I am sure that this is fine shades of distinction compared against the near perfection of similar cars like the Elise and GTM Libra.
No disrespect, but if you are trading up from a Banham, I don't think you'd have any complaints about the Belva.
I tried finding one a few months ago because I'm selling.....my X99!
I think Affordable Kit Cars had a yellow one on their website for about £8000.
By the way, there's nowt wrong with a 1.4GTi based X99 if you uprate the head, induction, sparks, ECU etc, etc. Prettty chuckable little motor (I'm just bored with it is all).
I think Affordable Kit Cars had a yellow one on their website for about £8000.
By the way, there's nowt wrong with a 1.4GTi based X99 if you uprate the head, induction, sparks, ECU etc, etc. Prettty chuckable little motor (I'm just bored with it is all).
Flintstone said:
I think Affordable Kit Cars had a yellow one on their website for about £8000.
Yes Thats the one I was thinking of. It was at £7000.
They sold it to Hallmark Cars who now are advertising it at ..... wait for it.... £12,500 a week later.
who then have the cheek to say they would have no problem with me trading in my car against it. not a bit of wonder. They will still get a profit on the Raffo PLUS have my X99 basically for nothing. 
I noticed some traffic about the Raffo Belva recently. As it happens, I'm one of the few owners of this great car. Mike Phillips has inded taken over the project, and is hoping to have the car available later, with some modifications.
Mine has some problems. I didn't build it, so I have no information wahtever about the structure, specs, setup etc. The main problems i have are:
1. The engine management (1800 Zetec) seems to be behaving badly. I'm getting about 24 mpg, and the performance is poor. Also, the engine mounts to the rear firewall with almost no cushioning, so there is horrendous vibration inside the car.
2. The braking balance is wrong - hard braking even at 40 mph causes a potentially lethal skid. This is exacerbated by the fact that the front end is very light, and seems to lifht slightly at anything over about 60mph.
3. The door locking mechanism (electronic) misbehaves, and its sometimes difficult to get in or out of the car. Also, althogh the car is relatively watertight when moving, if it rains, the rain settles on the roof, and when you open the (gull-wing) doors, the water pours into the cabin!
BUT these problems should be relatively easily sortable.
If youy're interested, the "new" belva should be much better. The engine compartment in mine is packed solid, and its difficult to get to...anything. The enw one should have a hingeing engine cover, like the libra. On mine the side windows are perspex, and don't open. I only got it very recently, so I dont know what it will be like in the hot(??) summer. Again the new one will have opening windows (I think).
Even with all the problems, I wouldn't be without it. It's reaaly like a mini GT racer - much better than the Elise or GTM libra. - or it will be once I can drive it very fast SAFELY!
Mine has some problems. I didn't build it, so I have no information wahtever about the structure, specs, setup etc. The main problems i have are:
1. The engine management (1800 Zetec) seems to be behaving badly. I'm getting about 24 mpg, and the performance is poor. Also, the engine mounts to the rear firewall with almost no cushioning, so there is horrendous vibration inside the car.
2. The braking balance is wrong - hard braking even at 40 mph causes a potentially lethal skid. This is exacerbated by the fact that the front end is very light, and seems to lifht slightly at anything over about 60mph.
3. The door locking mechanism (electronic) misbehaves, and its sometimes difficult to get in or out of the car. Also, althogh the car is relatively watertight when moving, if it rains, the rain settles on the roof, and when you open the (gull-wing) doors, the water pours into the cabin!
BUT these problems should be relatively easily sortable.
If youy're interested, the "new" belva should be much better. The engine compartment in mine is packed solid, and its difficult to get to...anything. The enw one should have a hingeing engine cover, like the libra. On mine the side windows are perspex, and don't open. I only got it very recently, so I dont know what it will be like in the hot(??) summer. Again the new one will have opening windows (I think).
Even with all the problems, I wouldn't be without it. It's reaaly like a mini GT racer - much better than the Elise or GTM libra. - or it will be once I can drive it very fast SAFELY!
papa doc said:
much better than the Elise or GTM libra.
Oooh, them's fightin' words!
Good to hear an un-biased owner's viewpoint of what is a good looking car. Will you be getting to any of the shows through the summer? Would be good to be able to get a good look at one in the 'glass so to speak.
papa doc said:
I'm getting about 24 mpg, and the performance is poor. Also, the engine mounts to the rear firewall with almost no cushioning, so there is horrendous vibration inside the car.
Libra = 35-40mpg, performance stunning, no vibration.
papa doc also said:
The braking balance is wrong - hard braking even at 40 mph causes a potentially lethal skid. This is exacerbated by the fact that the front end is very light, and seems to lifht slightly at anything over about 60mph.
Libra = Planted to the road, stops fine even with solid Metro front discs!
papa doc went on and said:
The door locking mechanism (electronic) misbehaves, and its sometimes difficult to get in or out of the car. Also, althogh the car is relatively watertight when moving, if it rains, the rain settles on the roof, and when you open the (gull-wing) doors, the water pours into the cabin!
Libra = Doors work, interior stays dry.
papa doc then said:
If youy're interested, the "new" belva SHOULD(?) be much better. The engine compartment in mine is packed solid, and its difficult to get to...anything. The new one should have a hingeing engine cover, like the Libra. On mine the side windows are perspex, and don't open. I only got it very recently, so I dont know what it will be like in the hot(??) summer. Again the new one will have opening windows (I think).
Libra = Hinging rear shell, windows go up and down... like a real car really!!
papa doc unbelievably said:
It's really like a mini GT racer - much better than the Elise or GTM libra.
>> Edited by ferg on Tuesday 16th March 16:34
Richard,
The Belva is a stunning car, but it's more in the racer bracket than the Libra. GTM have spent 20-odd years building up to the Libra and have put lessons learnt from the Coupe and the 3 generations of Rossa into it. That's why it's a step above the Belva...... mind you, if it gets the development it sounds like it's crying out for it'll be a fabulous and most importantly ORIGINAL kit car.
Cheers (& no offence intended
)
Ferg
The Belva is a stunning car, but it's more in the racer bracket than the Libra. GTM have spent 20-odd years building up to the Libra and have put lessons learnt from the Coupe and the 3 generations of Rossa into it. That's why it's a step above the Belva...... mind you, if it gets the development it sounds like it's crying out for it'll be a fabulous and most importantly ORIGINAL kit car.
Cheers (& no offence intended
) Ferg
Hi there just to let you know that the 1st stages of repairing yopur old raffo belva started yesterday
my friend owns this car now and he will lovingly be crafting it back to its original state
can you please email me any photos to sales@fatladz.com so that we can accurantely rebuild the front end of the car
i will get some photos and keep you uptodate with the process of making this car like new again
regards
FatLadZ
my friend owns this car now and he will lovingly be crafting it back to its original state
can you please email me any photos to sales@fatladz.com so that we can accurantely rebuild the front end of the car
i will get some photos and keep you uptodate with the process of making this car like new again
regards
FatLadZ
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