Discussion
It's all about personal preference. I love the buzzy, noisy, raw bike engined feel. But can completely understand why some (pansies) wouldn't. As far as I know the R1 is pretty robust, a few do the alps tour 3500miles in 10 days - yearly, I'm planning on going next year and my car has already been once faultlessly. The sump is low, but tbh I don't worry about it, I just make sure I drive over bumps thus lifting the whole car over and lifting the sump away from the ground. Again, personal preference..never liked the le mans bonnet. But each to their own. TBH you probably need a ride out in a few types to compare. The blade won't be much better on the sump I don't think, plus it's an older carbed motor with 30hp less, assuming you mean a 900cbr. I've got to say it can be a tiring car to drive, but in a rewarding way. I'm not sure how much patience I'd have if I was 40 odd years old, but for now I love it. I joined the R1 forum, with questions of longevity of bike engines...theres lads on there with 100k miles on their R1s! Only thing I try and go easy on is the gearbox but tbh it's so low geared and with such small wheels it won't be under as much stress as you think.
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 3rd December 00:53
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 3rd December 01:09
Huff: cheers for the offer, I live in hampshire so a little far away, but a good excuse for a drive. There could be some bigish distances so maybe something that isn't manic all the time is the way to go.
Yazza54: It's not about being hard enough to deal with a bike engine, it's about which is most appriopriate for the intended use. I had no prefrence over age of engine, so it could be carb'd or injection. I quite like the idea of a busa engine so it has more torque. I just don't want to be having to replace engines on a semi regular basis, prefer to fit and not have to change.
One thing that appeals about a bike engine is the responsiveness, as well as a sequential gearbox and the acceleration. Quite possibly a car engine would be more suitable for my intended use, so may be worth looking at lightweight flywheels to make the engine more responsive. Will see about getting some ride outs in bike and car engined furys to help make the decision.
Things ilke lowish sumps would not necessarily stop me going down a bike engine route, I just want to be aware of the issues so I go in with my eyes open.
Yazza54: It's not about being hard enough to deal with a bike engine, it's about which is most appriopriate for the intended use. I had no prefrence over age of engine, so it could be carb'd or injection. I quite like the idea of a busa engine so it has more torque. I just don't want to be having to replace engines on a semi regular basis, prefer to fit and not have to change.
One thing that appeals about a bike engine is the responsiveness, as well as a sequential gearbox and the acceleration. Quite possibly a car engine would be more suitable for my intended use, so may be worth looking at lightweight flywheels to make the engine more responsive. Will see about getting some ride outs in bike and car engined furys to help make the decision.
Things ilke lowish sumps would not necessarily stop me going down a bike engine route, I just want to be aware of the issues so I go in with my eyes open.
Well not hard enough but being tolerant enough to such a raw experience for a long stint. It is all about personal preference. Either can be suitable for your needs.... It depends what your needs are, and I don't mean miles, comfort etc.. Needs in terms of which you find more enjoyable and how much you could put up with it.
It's likely that you'll get pretty hooked on the bike engine experience, it's then up to you to decide how much of it you can take, if that makes sense.
Also.. Just to add, don't make too many snap judgements about them until you drive one. I did that, thinking I'd need a busa or zx14 to have enough torque etc etc. It's surprising how much pull my R1 has, it's not nothing nothing nothing waaaaaaa power! It's pretty progressive, like a surge. Best for you like you say is to get some rides out. I'd offer but you're miles away!
It's likely that you'll get pretty hooked on the bike engine experience, it's then up to you to decide how much of it you can take, if that makes sense.
Also.. Just to add, don't make too many snap judgements about them until you drive one. I did that, thinking I'd need a busa or zx14 to have enough torque etc etc. It's surprising how much pull my R1 has, it's not nothing nothing nothing waaaaaaa power! It's pretty progressive, like a surge. Best for you like you say is to get some rides out. I'd offer but you're miles away!
Furyblade_Lee said:
Not heard of this low sump problem on bike engines??? I have had a 'blade and an R1 since 2002 and never had a problem. They deal with country lanes / speed humps / ferries 100%, mine is at least 4" clear of the road.
Mines probably no more than 50mm off the floor
Yazza54 said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
Not heard of this low sump problem on bike engines??? I have had a 'blade and an R1 since 2002 and never had a problem. They deal with country lanes / speed humps / ferries 100%, mine is at least 4" clear of the road.
Mines probably no more than 50mm off the floor
singlecoil said:
Yazza54 said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
Not heard of this low sump problem on bike engines??? I have had a 'blade and an R1 since 2002 and never had a problem. They deal with country lanes / speed humps / ferries 100%, mine is at least 4" clear of the road.
Mines probably no more than 50mm off the floor
Yazza54 said:
singlecoil said:
Yazza54 said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
Not heard of this low sump problem on bike engines??? I have had a 'blade and an R1 since 2002 and never had a problem. They deal with country lanes / speed humps / ferries 100%, mine is at least 4" clear of the road.
Mines probably no more than 50mm off the floor
The size of the wheels is irrelevant unless one knows thwe profile of the tyres, high profile tyres with small wheels can easily equal large wheels with low profiles.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Having had a go in Ruari Coles's Cosworth Fury Spyder (300+bhp in a 600kg car) even I would think twice before I bought that! Fearsome torque,we were doing a genuine 140 in some supidlyshort amount of time. Made my Furyblade seem slow! He also worked at MIRA, and legend has it the Fury went through the speed trap there at 165...
I now own that car!!!!!! It is a beast and I have not yet driven it much so am still getting to grips with it.It's off the road atm as the clutch cable snapped, should be sorted again soon. Then I need to make a few changes as one of the owners who had it after Ruari changed the dash to include a very small Koso digidash and to be frank I hate the damned thing. I may go back to traditional dials as I (and I feel the car too) need a nice big rev counter to be able to drive it well.
If anyone knows any of the history of this car or has any pics/details/anything at all I would be really grateful for the info.
The pic is b4 I got it and the guy I bought from changed the roll bar to black (which looks better), removed the drivers side head pad, changed the wing mirrors and fitted a Caterham drivers side seat (which is fab!). Other than that she looks just the same as when this was taken (2013 I believe?)
Hi Steve thats my picture. I repainted the rollbar black, fitted the Caterham seat which held me in place much better ( I kept moving too much in the standard one).
I didn't have anything to do with the digi dash - so don't blame me for that one. The guy that bought it from me sold it to his friend who also came to view the car with him, however, he thought it was a bit wild (huh!) so his mate had it. However, that's the last I heard about it. If you want to know some detailed mechanical stuff then talk to Karl Norris at Norris Motorsport in South Normanton (Alfreton) Derbyshire as he did all the work on the car and got the engine back into good shape. He may be able to give you an honest appraisal.
I didn't have anything to do with the digi dash - so don't blame me for that one. The guy that bought it from me sold it to his friend who also came to view the car with him, however, he thought it was a bit wild (huh!) so his mate had it. However, that's the last I heard about it. If you want to know some detailed mechanical stuff then talk to Karl Norris at Norris Motorsport in South Normanton (Alfreton) Derbyshire as he did all the work on the car and got the engine back into good shape. He may be able to give you an honest appraisal.
Hello Steve (and Crispin!), it's been a few years now since that car was anything to do with me, but you're very welcome to send me a PM if you have any particular questions
Clutch cable was always a slight Achilles heel, modified Peugeot 306 if I remember right, but despite my best efforts with heat sleeving it always used to get cooked over time. A friend with a Pinto-engined Fury and (I think) a T5 'box converted it to hydraulic clutch which would be the ideal way to go if you can sort it.
Have fun
Ruari
Clutch cable was always a slight Achilles heel, modified Peugeot 306 if I remember right, but despite my best efforts with heat sleeving it always used to get cooked over time. A friend with a Pinto-engined Fury and (I think) a T5 'box converted it to hydraulic clutch which would be the ideal way to go if you can sort it.
Have fun
Ruari
Crippo said:
Hi Steve thats my picture. I repainted the rollbar black, fitted the Caterham seat which held me in place much better ( I kept moving too much in the standard one).
I didn't have anything to do with the digi dash - so don't blame me for that one. The guy that bought it from me sold it to his friend who also came to view the car with him, however, he thought it was a bit wild (huh!) so his mate had it. However, that's the last I heard about it. If you want to know some detailed mechanical stuff then talk to Karl Norris at Norris Motorsport in South Normanton (Alfreton) Derbyshire as he did all the work on the car and got the engine back into good shape. He may be able to give you an honest appraisal.
Hi Crispin! Sorry I have only just spotted that both you and Ruari have replied to my post (I am new to pistonheads and spend more time on the BKCC forum tbh).Thank you both for replying!I didn't have anything to do with the digi dash - so don't blame me for that one. The guy that bought it from me sold it to his friend who also came to view the car with him, however, he thought it was a bit wild (huh!) so his mate had it. However, that's the last I heard about it. If you want to know some detailed mechanical stuff then talk to Karl Norris at Norris Motorsport in South Normanton (Alfreton) Derbyshire as he did all the work on the car and got the engine back into good shape. He may be able to give you an honest appraisal.
I stand corrected on the roll bar and Caterham seat then as I thought James who I bought the car from had made those changes. I knew you didn't do the digi dash though Crispin 'cos James defo did that one when he remade the dash. Nowt wrong with it but it just does not suit me as I wear glasses for distnce and it is so small and close that it is all out of focus and the rev counter on it is useless in any case!
I plan to put in another Caterham seat if I can find the exact same one to match, did you buy it direct from them? I am still planning to email you direct as soon as time, work and my health permits (been a bit iffy lately!) and I will give Karl Norris a ring sometime too.
I've just refitted a new clutch cable and heat sleeve etc as the last one snapped on me, bit of a nause but I am an expert on that job now at least!
Are you still tracking that VX220?? I plan to do my 1st ever track day next month and tbh I am very nervous at the mo! The Fury is a beast as you well know! How did you find it compared to the plethora of seven style bike engined cars that are around now? They seem damned quick to me and are so light, did you manage to keep up or even outpace them at all??
Cheers for now, Steve
ruaricoles said:
Hello Steve (and Crispin!), it's been a few years now since that car was anything to do with me, but you're very welcome to send me a PM if you have any particular questions
Clutch cable was always a slight Achilles heel, modified Peugeot 306 if I remember right, but despite my best efforts with heat sleeving it always used to get cooked over time. A friend with a Pinto-engined Fury and (I think) a T5 'box converted it to hydraulic clutch which would be the ideal way to go if you can sort it.
Have fun
Ruari
Thanks Ruari. The clutch cable is now done, how long it'll last is anyone's guess. I'm not totally convinced it JUST a cooking problem though as when I took all the heat sleeve, heat wrap and fire sleeve(!!) off it was all rusted away inside where it had snapped. The snap point was bang direct under the turbo body though. Maybe the heat causes condensation once it cools and that has rusted it through is my thinking atm. Yes it was a Peugeot 306 cable, modified of course.Clutch cable was always a slight Achilles heel, modified Peugeot 306 if I remember right, but despite my best efforts with heat sleeving it always used to get cooked over time. A friend with a Pinto-engined Fury and (I think) a T5 'box converted it to hydraulic clutch which would be the ideal way to go if you can sort it.
Have fun
Ruari
If I keep the car any length of time I may go the hydraulic route, we shall see.
I am not sure if you get notified of my posts about this but I guess being as both you and Crispin replied that maybe you do? Either way I am sure I will PM you as soon as I figure out how to!
I plan to get the car corner weighted and the suspension set up by Dave Gallop at Track Developments as soon as I have fitted new Toyo R888's to it, the current T1R's are just not up to the job in my view. I am currently thinking R888 205/50/15's front and 215/50/15's rear. If you or Crispin have any views on this pls shout as I have no track day experience and I know you guys most definitely do (you are all over youtube Crippo!!) lol!
Cheers guys.
Hello Steve, ref tyres I never tried 888s, I got Dunlop Formula R tyres as my first track tyres for it, fairly randomly as they came with the wheels I bought from a chap sprinting a Westie. The Dunlops seemed good, lasted fairly well, and seemed to reach a different level of performance with real heat in them although I never really played with tyre pressures to see if you could get them in the zone any quicker. When I replaced them I went with Yoko A048Rs (mediums I think) which are well known of course and also suited well.
In terms of speed vs the lighter 7-type cars, used to find that some were quicker in the corners as you might expect but generally your car was amongst the quickest stuff at most track days I did with it, although when you're keeping up with an R500 you never know how hard they're actually trying
Brakes always seemed to stand up well (even when glowing red hot at Curborough), the bias would shift a little too far rear wards as the fronts go off a little so I fitted the dash bias adjuster knob to let you optimise it on the go which worked well, not sure if it's still there.
Have fun with it.
In terms of speed vs the lighter 7-type cars, used to find that some were quicker in the corners as you might expect but generally your car was amongst the quickest stuff at most track days I did with it, although when you're keeping up with an R500 you never know how hard they're actually trying
Brakes always seemed to stand up well (even when glowing red hot at Curborough), the bias would shift a little too far rear wards as the fronts go off a little so I fitted the dash bias adjuster knob to let you optimise it on the go which worked well, not sure if it's still there.
Have fun with it.
Hi Ruari, keeping up with an R500!! Impressed, even if they were only at 95% (which they would at least be if they saw the Fury in their mirrors I'm sure!)
Sadly the dash brake bias is no longer there, the previous owner changed the dash an it is now almost totally different from the one I see in Crispin's youtube vids. I preferred the old set up tbh.
One of the things I planned to ask Crispin (or you maybe?) is what all the switches, buttons and dials were on the dash when he/you had it as I would like to at least have a go at putting some of them back. The current Koso (tiny) digidash is too small for me to see up close as I have to wear specs for distance when I drive. The dash and the fact that the synchro from 4th to 3rd is knackered are the two things I don't like about the car. All can be sorted of course but it'll be next year before she is sorted how I want her. Very hard to rev match to make the 4th to 3rd change when you have no visble rev counter I have found!!!
Apparently the gearbox was rebuilt by Bernie at Competition Transmision Services? Was that when you had the car or afterwards? I need to call them to see if they will sort out the synchro for me as I have not yet managed to find anyone local who can do a cossie T5 box.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out Ruari, much appreciated.
Sadly the dash brake bias is no longer there, the previous owner changed the dash an it is now almost totally different from the one I see in Crispin's youtube vids. I preferred the old set up tbh.
One of the things I planned to ask Crispin (or you maybe?) is what all the switches, buttons and dials were on the dash when he/you had it as I would like to at least have a go at putting some of them back. The current Koso (tiny) digidash is too small for me to see up close as I have to wear specs for distance when I drive. The dash and the fact that the synchro from 4th to 3rd is knackered are the two things I don't like about the car. All can be sorted of course but it'll be next year before she is sorted how I want her. Very hard to rev match to make the 4th to 3rd change when you have no visble rev counter I have found!!!
Apparently the gearbox was rebuilt by Bernie at Competition Transmision Services? Was that when you had the car or afterwards? I need to call them to see if they will sort out the synchro for me as I have not yet managed to find anyone local who can do a cossie T5 box.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out Ruari, much appreciated.
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