RE: Ginetta G20
Discussion
Hi dandarez,
Obviously a committed Ginetta/Walklett fan! And why not? Tried to arrange a DZ test some weeks back but no car available. Hopefully later in the year though. Also have to speak to Dare about that new car...
Never mind evo - REAL sports car enthusiasts stick to Pistonheads!
Obviously a committed Ginetta/Walklett fan! And why not? Tried to arrange a DZ test some weeks back but no car available. Hopefully later in the year though. Also have to speak to Dare about that new car...
Never mind evo - REAL sports car enthusiasts stick to Pistonheads!
There were a few magazines that had a short run, that did a good job--Speed & Style and (I think) the other was Sportscar. Both went of publication a year or 2 ago. I miss them both.
EVO does an excellent job of packaging their magazine. Sometimes I wonder if they have gotten too much into the POrsche/BMW thing though. I like the exotic coverage, too--but it can be too much.
Here's to you Speed & Style and Sportscar :cheers:
EVO does an excellent job of packaging their magazine. Sometimes I wonder if they have gotten too much into the POrsche/BMW thing though. I like the exotic coverage, too--but it can be too much.
Here's to you Speed & Style and Sportscar :cheers:
Hi drd,
Yes, I miss Speed & Style and Sportscar too, especially as I wrote for both...
Agree that evo is nicely packaged but it still fails to live up to its initial promise due to its obsession with the big name/big price cars. Nice to dream about a Zonda, but most people's budgets are more Ginetta and evo are completely ignoring many good low price sports cars. In short, it doesn't do what it says on the tin. Oh all right then, the cover..
Yes, I miss Speed & Style and Sportscar too, especially as I wrote for both...
Agree that evo is nicely packaged but it still fails to live up to its initial promise due to its obsession with the big name/big price cars. Nice to dream about a Zonda, but most people's budgets are more Ginetta and evo are completely ignoring many good low price sports cars. In short, it doesn't do what it says on the tin. Oh all right then, the cover..
Well..
I've been a Ginetta owner for over 4 years... A G27 series 3.. Currently it has a 1.8 zetec.. I've got to say it's good, really good, handles well, now that the front is sorted and the engine too!! Recently though I got myself a G20R, the race version and am lucky enough to have lapped around Snetterton (test day) and raced at Pembrey, last weekend. The car is an absolute joy, you really can push it and push it. The brakes are excellent and the race series will generate improvements which will filter through to the road cars - all good stuff. The chassis is much stiffer and new uprights improve the handling and castor :grin:
We had Win Percy (Win Percy!) driving in the Celebrity car and he confirmed that it is a little down on power, but the chassis is good, brakes excellent and the whole package a really nice and fun car to drive. He really pushed the more powerful 27s... and even won the second race!!! (a combination of race craft and using the conditions - oil at most of the corners)
I'm still getting used to the car, but it really is a fantastic package and at a low price. The race series is also a good, low cost (relatively) championship. Eclipse moved on from there into the Privilige GT Championship - most of their drivers learning their racecraft in the Ginetta Championship.
It will improve as a whole package.
PS
I've been a Ginetta owner for over 4 years... A G27 series 3.. Currently it has a 1.8 zetec.. I've got to say it's good, really good, handles well, now that the front is sorted and the engine too!! Recently though I got myself a G20R, the race version and am lucky enough to have lapped around Snetterton (test day) and raced at Pembrey, last weekend. The car is an absolute joy, you really can push it and push it. The brakes are excellent and the race series will generate improvements which will filter through to the road cars - all good stuff. The chassis is much stiffer and new uprights improve the handling and castor :grin:
We had Win Percy (Win Percy!) driving in the Celebrity car and he confirmed that it is a little down on power, but the chassis is good, brakes excellent and the whole package a really nice and fun car to drive. He really pushed the more powerful 27s... and even won the second race!!! (a combination of race craft and using the conditions - oil at most of the corners)
I'm still getting used to the car, but it really is a fantastic package and at a low price. The race series is also a good, low cost (relatively) championship. Eclipse moved on from there into the Privilige GT Championship - most of their drivers learning their racecraft in the Ginetta Championship.
It will improve as a whole package.
PS
Graham, what did you think of the Dare/Ginetta G4 review in EVO?
I was a bit disappointed in the 3.5 stars, myself.
The review sounded more positive than that!
Love to see a side by side of the G4 vs.G20.
Maybe you guys could arrange that?
I agree that Ginetta/Dare should not be listed under kit cars, too!
I was a bit disappointed in the 3.5 stars, myself.
The review sounded more positive than that!
Love to see a side by side of the G4 vs.G20.
Maybe you guys could arrange that?
I agree that Ginetta/Dare should not be listed under kit cars, too!
Challenge to Mr ginettag27
If you are a true Ginetta enthusiast; test drive the Ginetta G4 built by DARE. They might even take your G20 in part-ex. The G20 is a fake and a poor copy of the G4. Ask Dan nicely and he might lend you a copy of Bob Walklett's book.
Ivor Walklett is a true enthusiast only intrested in producing great cars.
Martin Phaff is not interested in making good cars; he is just interested in ripping people off!
Pip
If you are a true Ginetta enthusiast; test drive the Ginetta G4 built by DARE. They might even take your G20 in part-ex. The G20 is a fake and a poor copy of the G4. Ask Dan nicely and he might lend you a copy of Bob Walklett's book.
Ivor Walklett is a true enthusiast only intrested in producing great cars.
Martin Phaff is not interested in making good cars; he is just interested in ripping people off!
Pip
quote:
Challenge to Mr ginettag27
If you are a true Ginetta enthusiast; test drive the Ginetta G4 built by DARE. They might even take your G20 in part-ex. The G20 is a fake and a poor copy of the G4. Ask Dan nicely and he might lend you a copy of Bob Walklett's book.
Ivor Walklett is a true enthusiast only intrested in producing great cars.
Martin Phaff is not interested in making good cars; he is just interested in ripping people off!
Pip
Pipewell
I am a true Ginetta enthusiast! I've been a member of the owners club for many years now and have knowledge of both the Walklett's and Martin's "Ginetta". To answer your points, I can't trade the G20 in as it's a championship spec. racecar!! I don't think they'd allow me to race in the series in non-standard car (ROFL!!!).
Ask Dan nicely? Mate, I've got and read *all* of the books and magazine articles.
I've spoken to a number of people who've worked with both Martin and the Walkletts, plus done business with them... So I know both sides of the story (and believe me there are two sides to the story!). If you feel that the G20 is a 'rip off' of the G4 then that's your opinion, but have you driven them both? Thought not. As far as I'm aware both the new G4 and the G20 chassis are made by the same company.. Plus the G20 has some 'Ginetta' innovations in it - which don't apply to the G4.. At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion, informed or not, and until I have had the chance to testdrive a (new) G4 I'll have to reserve judgement on it. In fact if you'd bothered to read the G4 thread I've already indicated that I'd like to test drive the G4 and have been in touch with the 'goginetta.com' people. I'm more than interested in 'seeing' what the new G4 has to offer, I'm well aware of the heritage and history, but one thing that you should be aware of is that you could buy two G20s for one G4!!! Not really comparing like with like here...
As for Martin not being interested in making good cars I think you'll be pleasantly surprised in the coming months....
PS >> Edited by ginettag27 on Tuesday 23 July 21:49
Hi Phil,
I was invited to test the G20 and did not like it. As I am only 5'6" tall; I have also driven the DARE DZ! I am one of a handfull of people who has driven the G4, G12 and all the Phaff imitations. I have even been out to Sweden and driven the G40!
Phil, I hope you enjoy your test in the G4; ask about the car Mark took to Japan. Now thats a real racing car!
Pip
I was invited to test the G20 and did not like it. As I am only 5'6" tall; I have also driven the DARE DZ! I am one of a handfull of people who has driven the G4, G12 and all the Phaff imitations. I have even been out to Sweden and driven the G40!
Phil, I hope you enjoy your test in the G4; ask about the car Mark took to Japan. Now thats a real racing car!
Pip
James
Doesn't look much different!! Apart from...
The bits you can see...
No windscreen, no doors, no boot, sculpted rear quarter.. Central binnacle, housing the speedo and so on.. Rounded one piece 'dash'.. Nifty side-exit exhaust, whereas '27s traditionally are rear exit (IRS ones) or lower side exit.. (esp. the fixed rear axle
cars)
Then the bits you can't see...
Completely different chassis and also new Ginetta only front uprights which sort out the compromise which is the '27 front end (shortened Sierra? uprights)..
PS
Doesn't look much different!! Apart from...
The bits you can see...
No windscreen, no doors, no boot, sculpted rear quarter.. Central binnacle, housing the speedo and so on.. Rounded one piece 'dash'.. Nifty side-exit exhaust, whereas '27s traditionally are rear exit (IRS ones) or lower side exit.. (esp. the fixed rear axle
cars)
Then the bits you can't see...
Completely different chassis and also new Ginetta only front uprights which sort out the compromise which is the '27 front end (shortened Sierra? uprights)..
PSHi Fizz,
In case you haven't read my reports (surely not!)I've driven both G4 and G20. Hard to say which was better because the G4 was brand new coupe with a tight engine and driven on a cold December day with slippery patches on the road while the G20 was a well thrashed ex-demo car driven on a nice sunny day. Reckon you could have loads of fun on road or track in either.
Not very helpful I know, but if you're thinking of getting one, best to try them both yourself and see what you think.
In case you haven't read my reports (surely not!)I've driven both G4 and G20. Hard to say which was better because the G4 was brand new coupe with a tight engine and driven on a cold December day with slippery patches on the road while the G20 was a well thrashed ex-demo car driven on a nice sunny day. Reckon you could have loads of fun on road or track in either.
Not very helpful I know, but if you're thinking of getting one, best to try them both yourself and see what you think.
Jamesc
Thanks for the info. I'm going to the Motorshow on Monday... Will see what they look like in the flesh - I've seen the Pistonheads photos... Not overly keen on the Win Percy special's colour scheme and livery, but might look a lot different in real life..
Personally I can't wait to get a drive of a G4 and see how the two match up. I think the G20 is a bit of a surprise overall in terms of performance and handling, but that's my opinion..
As for the G4/G20 debate, they're so different (price, equipment, one has a roof, etc.. ) why can't both exist quite happily??
Maybe a G20 in the Ginetta Owners Club Championship would then allow a comparison between the G4 and G20...
in track terms at least..
PS
Thanks for the info. I'm going to the Motorshow on Monday... Will see what they look like in the flesh - I've seen the Pistonheads photos... Not overly keen on the Win Percy special's colour scheme and livery, but might look a lot different in real life..
Personally I can't wait to get a drive of a G4 and see how the two match up. I think the G20 is a bit of a surprise overall in terms of performance and handling, but that's my opinion..
As for the G4/G20 debate, they're so different (price, equipment, one has a roof, etc.. ) why can't both exist quite happily??
Maybe a G20 in the Ginetta Owners Club Championship would then allow a comparison between the G4 and G20...
in track terms at least..
PSHi Phil,
I spoke to Ivor (Walklett) while at the show. DARE have some new cars on the way! There is a Cosworth powered Ginetta G27; re-engineered by a chap who worked for Arrows. That car was built for less than £20,000. I don't think people are going to pay Martin that kind of money for a G20. What Ginetta should do is a sub £11K car, now that would sell and Phaff would still make money.
I didn't see Win Percy though! You would of thought he would of been there for the launch. Does he know his name is on car. DanDARE didn't know what input he put into car apart from his autograph on the bonnett.
Paul Stephens can give you a good deal on a G4.
James
I spoke to Ivor (Walklett) while at the show. DARE have some new cars on the way! There is a Cosworth powered Ginetta G27; re-engineered by a chap who worked for Arrows. That car was built for less than £20,000. I don't think people are going to pay Martin that kind of money for a G20. What Ginetta should do is a sub £11K car, now that would sell and Phaff would still make money.
I didn't see Win Percy though! You would of thought he would of been there for the launch. Does he know his name is on car. DanDARE didn't know what input he put into car apart from his autograph on the bonnett.
Paul Stephens can give you a good deal on a G4.
James
James
Well we shall see what Dare have in store, although it needs to be better than the TG I'm afraid..
Ginetta aren't really selling the '27 any more and are concentrating mainly on the '20 - hence only having those cars at the Motorshow... Which incidentally costs just slightly over the 11k you've cited..
Win does know that his name has been put on the car and the details (as far as I know) were discussed with him.. This of course comes from him having raced 3 times this year in a G20, at Pembrey (twice) and also at Spa...
I'm not really interest in a G4 at the moment, but would certainly be interested in having a test drive, to be able to compare a '20, '27 and '4...
PS
Well we shall see what Dare have in store, although it needs to be better than the TG I'm afraid..
Ginetta aren't really selling the '27 any more and are concentrating mainly on the '20 - hence only having those cars at the Motorshow... Which incidentally costs just slightly over the 11k you've cited..
Win does know that his name has been put on the car and the details (as far as I know) were discussed with him.. This of course comes from him having raced 3 times this year in a G20, at Pembrey (twice) and also at Spa...
I'm not really interest in a G4 at the moment, but would certainly be interested in having a test drive, to be able to compare a '20, '27 and '4...
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