Aluminium monocoupes and kit cars
Discussion
Sam_68 said:
mickrick said:
It's not that light, unless you use core, and vacum infuse.
Which can be done without an autoclave.You can vac-bag composites using a vac pump made from an old fridge compressor, if you know what you're doing.
Hate the stinking itchy arms stuff!
I drive a boat made out of it. It's 98 ton. Not very light!
mickrick said:
Yep, and some thick polythene, double sided tape, and plastercene.
Hate the stinking itchy arms stuff!
I drive a boat made out of it. It's 98 ton. Not very light!
That must have been a hell of a polythene bag! Hate the stinking itchy arms stuff!
I drive a boat made out of it. It's 98 ton. Not very light!
I must admit, CSM doesn't bother me that much, but woven fabric is nicer to work with, if it does, and there are obviously the carbon and kevlar fabrics, too - none of them have to be autoclaved. Vac-bagged wet lay-up CFRP in epoxy will still give you a very stiff, light composite (not as good as pre-preg and autoclave, admittedly, but still an order of magnitude better than a folded and rivetted ali tub).
Not knocking anyones car. It's just when you spend all day messing with the stuff, you don't want to be doing it as a hobby.
I spent a fortune to get rid of the stuff on my Seven. But I will succumb to a bit of carbon. Naked carbon looks so nice, and perfect when it's done properly.
Unfourtunately, I couldn't get any of the composite panels for a Seven in good quality autoclaved carbon. And I love ally.
But I have to admit, I have a hankering for the Hawk Stratos copy
I would have to go for the Kevlar body option though.
Shall we get back on topic?
I spent a fortune to get rid of the stuff on my Seven. But I will succumb to a bit of carbon. Naked carbon looks so nice, and perfect when it's done properly.
Unfourtunately, I couldn't get any of the composite panels for a Seven in good quality autoclaved carbon. And I love ally.
But I have to admit, I have a hankering for the Hawk Stratos copy
I would have to go for the Kevlar body option though.
Shall we get back on topic?
That must have been a hell of a polythene bag!
Just a deck repair. About 2 sq meters.
Just found a picure of the job. I bonded a hefty ally plate in, as part of a structure to support a crane for lifting the tender.
Shows what can be acheived with composite with minimal gear though.
Just a deck repair. About 2 sq meters.
Just found a picure of the job. I bonded a hefty ally plate in, as part of a structure to support a crane for lifting the tender.
Shows what can be acheived with composite with minimal gear though.
Edited by mickrick on Saturday 6th November 18:49
singlecoil said:
The point about the autoclave was, I believe, in the context of using pre-preg carbon fibre, which, of course, needs the heat and pressure to go off.
I don't recall seeing the words 'pre-preg', however?As I said, you don't have to use pre-preg; you can wet layup carbon fibre just the same as you can glass fibre.
k me! And it weighed 98 tons? What weight CSM were you using?
I think the answer to the initial question of why no one supplies a flat pack Ally chassis to build a kit with is more about how a manufacturer would trust the customer to join it together properly albiet Glued Rivited or Tig welded.
If your Ikea wardrobe collapses a year or two after its assembled its no big deal just some ear ache from the missus and another trip to Ikea.
Chassis rigidity and strength is goverened by how its joined together, whatever the process spaceframe or monocoque, and a manufacturer would be passing that critcal aspect of construction onto the builder.
If a home builder is that competent to assemble there own spaceframe or monocoque surely with a bit of studying it would be more fun to get some drawings and just have it cut yourself. Then all the liability will rest with you.
Like the idea of a billet machined tub with bolt on spaceframes at each end. I bet theres one in a shed somewhere right now.
If your Ikea wardrobe collapses a year or two after its assembled its no big deal just some ear ache from the missus and another trip to Ikea.
Chassis rigidity and strength is goverened by how its joined together, whatever the process spaceframe or monocoque, and a manufacturer would be passing that critcal aspect of construction onto the builder.
If a home builder is that competent to assemble there own spaceframe or monocoque surely with a bit of studying it would be more fun to get some drawings and just have it cut yourself. Then all the liability will rest with you.
Like the idea of a billet machined tub with bolt on spaceframes at each end. I bet theres one in a shed somewhere right now.
Sounds like the time has come to mention birch plywood. Coated with epoxy, various different ways of forming and bonding the corners are available. I've worked with the material a lot over the years, and it always struck me as a feasible material for a monocoque car. Not necessarily very light, but it's got to be stiffeer than aluminium for its weight.
Used to be a monocoque 7 in Australia, not sure if it was ever sold as a kit though. http://www.prbaustralia.com.au/ look under specifications/PRB archive/composite.
singlecoil said:
Sounds like the time has come to mention birch plywood. Coated with epoxy, various different ways of forming and bonding the corners are available. I've worked with the material a lot over the years, and it always struck me as a feasible material for a monocoque car. Not necessarily very light, but it's got to be stiffeer than aluminium for its weight.
Gaboon Ply has been used to construct Monocoques since the late 60's some still race today in Historics, heres one a friend of mine has been working on.http://silicon.fastnet.co.uk/specialist-car/phpGG2...
Joe T said:
singlecoil said:
Sounds like the time has come to mention birch plywood. Coated with epoxy, various different ways of forming and bonding the corners are available. I've worked with the material a lot over the years, and it always struck me as a feasible material for a monocoque car. Not necessarily very light, but it's got to be stiffeer than aluminium for its weight.
Gaboon Ply has been used to construct Monocoques since the late 60's some still race today in Historics, heres one a friend of mine has been working on.http://silicon.fastnet.co.uk/specialist-car/phpGG2...
I would certainly be prepared to have a go, the bit that concerns me is interfacing the plywood monocoque with the subframes for the suspension and engine, how to ensure the loads were correctly fed into the monocoque. Couldn't quite pick up that detail from the pictures.
Still, if anyone is in to this stuff and wanted to do a joint project- I've got the woodworking equipment and know how to use it.
Any more details on the wooden car? That's really interesting.
If you're interested in that sort of thing, you may enjoy "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat construction" Wood & West System Materials.
The stuff was originaly invented for the construction of wind turbine blades.
I'm very interested in Cedar strip construction. It's very impressive, some of the intricate shapes that can be made.
If you're interested in that sort of thing, you may enjoy "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat construction" Wood & West System Materials.
The stuff was originaly invented for the construction of wind turbine blades.
I'm very interested in Cedar strip construction. It's very impressive, some of the intricate shapes that can be made.
mickrick said:
Any more details on the wooden car? That's really interesting.
If you can find a copy, the book 'Flying on Four Wheels' by Dennis Ortenburger would interest you; it's essentially a technical biography of the work of Frank Costin (who designed the wooden car in JoeT's link.He did a series of timber monocoques, from the original Marcos through to (I think the last) the Costin Amigo in the '70's.
Timber monocoques are interesting and would lend themselves to home construction, but they're not especially light or stiff compared to more modern techniques.
Also try Googling 'Friend Wood Tryane'.
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