Three Wheelers - Your opinions and expertise wanted!
Discussion
Steffan said:
Well that has made an old man ( me!) smile. As you will know I still maintain the Berekeley cars remain the best ultra light moonocoque three wheelers and I respectfully suggest that these confirm that view. Never bettered as yet IMO. Many have tried but for a simple robust monocoque with real longevity these cars take some beating. Pity the engineering of the time let them down. Nice post. Happy New Year to you!
They do look still stylish after all these years and didn't expect them to be aircooled.....they also look diminutive in size, but well proportioned.I have little info on the monocoque chassis and personally like the idea of a modern monocoque chassis for a new trike, but I haven't found someone willing to Design it for me...yet. Maybe 2015 ?.;)
Happy New Year to you !
Cheers
Italo
fuoriserie said:
Steffan said:
Well that has made an old man ( me!) smile. As you will know I still maintain the Berekeley cars remain the best ultra light moonocoque three wheelers and I respectfully suggest that these confirm that view. Never bettered as yet IMO. Many have tried but for a simple robust monocoque with real longevity these cars take some beating. Pity the engineering of the time let them down. Nice post. Happy New Year to you!
They do look still stylish after all these years and didn't expect them to be aircooled.....they also look diminutive in size, but well proportioned.I have little info on the monocoque chassis and personally like the idea of a modern monocoque chassis for a new trike, but I haven't found someone willing to Design it for me...yet. Maybe 2015 ?.;)
Happy New Year to you !
Cheers
Italo
I do wish you well with your forthcoming monocoque chassis for a new Trike it must be the bet way forward. Steel tubes are just too heavy when every ounce counts which in three wheeler design it must. An ultralight machine with a decent m/c engine could be an absolute hoot to own and drive. Enjoy yourself there is real potential in a svelt aerodynamic monocoque three wheeler car. I am amazed that after all this time no one has actually followed the Berkeley example.
Steffan said:
Lawrie Bond was an exceptionally gifted motor engineer and he worked directly for Sir William Lyons personally at Jaguar on the E type development. He was a dab had at ultralight chassis design and that was part of his roe at Jag. The Berekely was a superb design executed very effectively fr the time. The Anzani engin let it down but when the Royal Enfield engines arrived the car achieved the potential Italy's had. Monococueq must be the lightest way to suspend a body especially in reinforced fibreglass.
I do wish you well with your forthcoming monocoque chassis for a new Trike it must be the bet way forward. Steel tubes are just too heavy when every ounce counts which in three wheeler design it must. An ultralight machine with a decent m/c engine could be an absolute hoot to own and drive. Enjoy yourself there is real potential in a svelt aerodynamic monocoque three wheeler car. I am amazed that after all this time no one has actually followed the Berkeley example.
Thanks for the info on Lawrie Bond...I do wish you well with your forthcoming monocoque chassis for a new Trike it must be the bet way forward. Steel tubes are just too heavy when every ounce counts which in three wheeler design it must. An ultralight machine with a decent m/c engine could be an absolute hoot to own and drive. Enjoy yourself there is real potential in a svelt aerodynamic monocoque three wheeler car. I am amazed that after all this time no one has actually followed the Berkeley example.
.Here is a nice video showing the complete build of the Morgan 3wheeler from start to finish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfYeM19lUgA
With reference to my design, I'm still at the planning stages and considering all the options, engines, chassis and other, but will hopefully start very soon.
Have a Great Year,
Italo
Two new threewheeler designs , the Ecar 333 with a modular design.
http://www.ecar333.be/index.php
and the
Spira4u
http://spira4u.com/spirahistory.html
http://www.ecar333.be/index.php
and the
Spira4u
http://spira4u.com/spirahistory.html
Edited by fuoriserie on Sunday 15th February 18:29
http://www.tritontrikes.com/V1/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtcVdVgkgg
A new front wheel drive threewheeler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtcVdVgkgg
A new front wheel drive threewheeler
fuoriserie said:
http://www.tritontrikes.com/V1/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtcVdVgkgg
A new front wheel drive threewheeler
What happens if you get caught in a shower?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtcVdVgkgg
A new front wheel drive threewheeler
vx220 said:
fuoriserie said:
http://www.tritontrikes.com/V1/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtcVdVgkgg
A new front wheel drive threewheeler
What happens if you get caught in a shower?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtcVdVgkgg
A new front wheel drive threewheeler
ajprice said:
vx220 said:
fuoriserie said:
http://www.tritontrikes.com/V1/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtcVdVgkgg
A new front wheel drive threewheeler
What happens if you get caught in a shower?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YtcVdVgkgg
A new front wheel drive threewheeler
qdos said:
Same as what happens when you're out walking your dog, riding a bike, on a motorcycle or out in an Atom. If you're afraid of a bit of water get a tin top suburban box.
I appreciate the approach. Indeed I have several kit cars which have no rainwter protection. But several of these do have such protection and these get a lot more road use on the road than the others. For those reasons. In the UK, whilst its possible to enjoy topless cars (and other things!) I do think the complete absence of any rainwater protection apart from the screen is likely to significantly reduce the interest of potential buyers. There are so few days where the English weather can be predicted and since most buyers will have a partner who they will want to accompany them in their fun cars, it seems somewhat seff defeating to me. Weatherproofing kit cars is never easy but if you are looking at volume sales then it should surely be one of the requirements?I would be interested to know what the costs would be on buying one these cars in the UK. If in fact this could be achieved in any way. I am mindful of travails that seem to accompany importing cars from the US. Nice looking machines but I suspect not cheap. Would they need inspection and approval coming into the UK to be used on the road? I would have thought it likely. Knowing the DVLA as I do nowadays I would be surprised if this did not significantly increase the OTR price. Interesting vehicles but whether we will see any in the UK remais to be seen.
Nice to see the cars and I appreciate the postings. I am watching them with interest. Being in Italy currently for some time ferrying very old Alfa Romeos means I cannot get back onto my kit car projects but come the summer at least three more kit cars will be OTR hopefully. I have GOT to reduce my stable! Could be five with a bit of luck!
Edited by Steffan on Tuesday 24th February 17:21
qdos said:
Same as what happens when you're out walking your dog, riding a bike, on a motorcycle or out in an Atom. If you're afraid of a bit of water get a tin top suburban box.
Guys, the car shares its name with this range of products...http://www.argos.co.uk/m/static/Product/partNumber...
...a little joke, was all
http://kustomsbykent.com/home/miller-3-wheeler/
A very interesting theewheeler design project and build.
A very interesting theewheeler design project and build.
fuoriserie said:
http://kustomsbykent.com/home/miller-3-wheeler/
A very interesting theewheeler design project and build.
Well spotted again, fuorisierie, another interesting three wheeler. I have come to rely upon your postings here to give me the details of the latest developments in three wheel cars and once again you have turned up trumps!A very interesting theewheeler design project and build.
Are you going to Stoneleigh this year? I may be depending on when SWMBO decides upon which precise day we are going back to the UK in Aoril this year. It s likely to be by the 29th April, in which case I could make it I think? I am hoping to come in a kit car. I have a fair variety to choose from but all offroad currently and I will be dependant on my kit car manufacturer pals to pick them up from storage and get them roadworthy after a winters rest. The Quantum RS Turbo is my favourite because it is far and away better trimmed, more comfortable and has a Surrey top,so ideal in the UK weather! If you are it would've great to meet up!
Getting back to the subject in hand (I digress easily!!) the articles on the suspension lengths and details if the proposed solutions are most interesting. Personally I think the stress and possible flexing this might cause could be a source of oncern but it is, as you say, interesting. Well done again!
Steffan said:
fuoriserie said:
http://kustomsbykent.com/home/miller-3-wheeler/
A very interesting theewheeler design project and build.
Well spotted again, fuorisierie, another interesting three wheeler. I have come to rely upon your postings here to give me the details of the latest developments in three wheel cars and once again you have turned up trumps!A very interesting theewheeler design project and build.
Are you going to Stoneleigh this year? I may be depending on when SWMBO decides upon which precise day we are going back to the UK in Aoril this year. It s likely to be by the 29th April, in which case I could make it I think? I am hoping to come in a kit car. , as you say, interesting. Well done again!
, but I've got another nice and cool looking project for you.... a replica Morgan threewheeler with an Honda Goldwing donor:http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t...
With reference to Stoneleigh, I'm not sure I will make this year, but will certainly try to....
Hello All,
I'm Ace, a resident of Denver, Colorado, and after reading this thread I had to jump in and offer a little information about the stability of various configurations of three-wheelers. Contrary to popular opinion, an arrangement of two wheels in the back and one in the front can be just as stable as the opposite layout.
I'm in the process of designing a trike with a Geo Metro drivetrain located in the rear and a rugged front suspension. The key to making it safe is keeping the center of gravity low, which can be accomplished fairly easily.
It's a matter of physics. With a little sniffing around on the Internet I was able to find several research papers regarding rollover and side stresses. While the math is far too complicated for me (and most people, I suspect) the conclusions were pretty clear. A vehicle with two wheels in front becomes unstable during an accelerating turn, while two wheel in back has stability problems during a decelerating turn. Two wheels up front can lead to a forward tipover under heavy braking and two wheels in back can allow the front wheel to rise up off the road.
The classic VW trike (hideous beasts) have severe wheelie problem due to the heavy weight of the engine behind the rear axle, and worse, a very dangerous tendency to push thru a turn because of the tiny motorcycle wheel in front. However, because the weight of the engine and transmission is kept low, the tipover potential is reduced. The fact that such trikes are generally driven in a non-performance manner further helps to keep them upright. I found very few instances when they tipped - generally any accidents were the result of trying to turn too sharply for the front to maintain traction and they slid off the road or hit something in the way.
My intent, at least for this particular vehicle, is a high-mileage, single passenger commuter. A Geo Metro is not known for stellar performance thanks to a wheezy 1.0 litre engine, but if you reduce the weight by half, cut the rolling friction by deleting one wheel, and give it a much smaller CD, mileage will increase dramatically and the horsepower to weight ratio becomes close to a Honda Accord. Here's a preliminary layout, sans frame:
The driver's butt will be about 20" above the ground. The front uses a stock Metro wheel, knuckle and rotor connected to a single-sided fork, and attached to the frame via parallel A-arms. Using the standard tires, the vehicle should slide before tipping, which is the same result as a car, and given the width of the front tire, it won't push in a turn.
Consider the DeltaWing race car. Even though it has four wheels, the two in front are only 4" wide and just 18" apart, giving it very similar dynamics as a trike. Poke around on YouTube and watch it run at Road Atlanta, passing more powerful cars as if they were hauling bags of cement. You can also see it crash when an idiot Porsche driver swerves right into it.
So, to sum up, it's not the layout that matters - it's the design. As I get further all, I'll post more pics.
Cheers.
I'm Ace, a resident of Denver, Colorado, and after reading this thread I had to jump in and offer a little information about the stability of various configurations of three-wheelers. Contrary to popular opinion, an arrangement of two wheels in the back and one in the front can be just as stable as the opposite layout.
I'm in the process of designing a trike with a Geo Metro drivetrain located in the rear and a rugged front suspension. The key to making it safe is keeping the center of gravity low, which can be accomplished fairly easily.
It's a matter of physics. With a little sniffing around on the Internet I was able to find several research papers regarding rollover and side stresses. While the math is far too complicated for me (and most people, I suspect) the conclusions were pretty clear. A vehicle with two wheels in front becomes unstable during an accelerating turn, while two wheel in back has stability problems during a decelerating turn. Two wheels up front can lead to a forward tipover under heavy braking and two wheels in back can allow the front wheel to rise up off the road.
The classic VW trike (hideous beasts) have severe wheelie problem due to the heavy weight of the engine behind the rear axle, and worse, a very dangerous tendency to push thru a turn because of the tiny motorcycle wheel in front. However, because the weight of the engine and transmission is kept low, the tipover potential is reduced. The fact that such trikes are generally driven in a non-performance manner further helps to keep them upright. I found very few instances when they tipped - generally any accidents were the result of trying to turn too sharply for the front to maintain traction and they slid off the road or hit something in the way.
My intent, at least for this particular vehicle, is a high-mileage, single passenger commuter. A Geo Metro is not known for stellar performance thanks to a wheezy 1.0 litre engine, but if you reduce the weight by half, cut the rolling friction by deleting one wheel, and give it a much smaller CD, mileage will increase dramatically and the horsepower to weight ratio becomes close to a Honda Accord. Here's a preliminary layout, sans frame:
The driver's butt will be about 20" above the ground. The front uses a stock Metro wheel, knuckle and rotor connected to a single-sided fork, and attached to the frame via parallel A-arms. Using the standard tires, the vehicle should slide before tipping, which is the same result as a car, and given the width of the front tire, it won't push in a turn.
Consider the DeltaWing race car. Even though it has four wheels, the two in front are only 4" wide and just 18" apart, giving it very similar dynamics as a trike. Poke around on YouTube and watch it run at Road Atlanta, passing more powerful cars as if they were hauling bags of cement. You can also see it crash when an idiot Porsche driver swerves right into it.
So, to sum up, it's not the layout that matters - it's the design. As I get further all, I'll post more pics.
Cheers.
Acemon said:
Hello All,
I'm Ace, a resident of Denver, Colorado, and after reading this thread I had to jump in and offer a little information about the stability of various configurations of three-wheelers. Contrary to popular opinion, an arrangement of two wheels in the back and one in the front can be just as stable as the opposite layout.
I'm in the process of designing a trike with a Geo Metro drivetrain located in the rear and a rugged front suspension. The key to making it safe is keeping the center of gravity low, which can be accomplished fairly easily.
It's a matter of physics. With a little sniffing around on the Internet I was able to find several research papers regarding rollover and side stresses. While the math is far too complicated for me (and most people, I suspect) the conclusions were pretty clear. A vehicle with two wheels in front becomes unstable during an accelerating turn, while two wheel in back has stability problems during a decelerating turn. Two wheels up front can lead to a forward tipover under heavy braking and two wheels in back can allow the front wheel to rise up off the road.
The classic VW trike (hideous beasts) have severe wheelie problem due to the heavy weight of the engine behind the rear axle, and worse, a very dangerous tendency to push thru a turn because of the tiny motorcycle wheel in front. However, because the weight of the engine and transmission is kept low, the tipover potential is reduced. The fact that such trikes are generally driven in a non-performance manner further helps to keep them upright. I found very few instances when they tipped - generally any accidents were the result of trying to turn too sharply for the front to maintain traction and they slid off the road or hit something in the way.
My intent, at least for this particular vehicle, is a high-mileage, single passenger commuter. A Geo Metro is not known for stellar performance thanks to a wheezy 1.0 litre engine, but if you reduce the weight by half, cut the rolling friction by deleting one wheel, and give it a much smaller CD, mileage will increase dramatically and the horsepower to weight ratio becomes close to a Honda Accord. Here's a preliminary layout, sans frame:
The driver's butt will be about 20" above the ground. The front uses a stock Metro wheel, knuckle and rotor connected to a single-sided fork, and attached to the frame via parallel A-arms. Using the standard tires, the vehicle should slide before tipping, which is the same result as a car, and given the width of the front tire, it won't push in a turn.
Consider the DeltaWing race car. Even though it has four wheels, the two in front are only 4" wide and just 18" apart, giving it very similar dynamics as a trike. Poke around on YouTube and watch it run at Road Atlanta, passing more powerful cars as if they were hauling bags of cement. You can also see it crash when an idiot Porsche driver swerves right into it.
So, to sum up, it's not the layout that matters - it's the design. As I get further all, I'll post more pics.
Cheers.
Interesting, but I assume you meant butt-height would be 20cm?I'm Ace, a resident of Denver, Colorado, and after reading this thread I had to jump in and offer a little information about the stability of various configurations of three-wheelers. Contrary to popular opinion, an arrangement of two wheels in the back and one in the front can be just as stable as the opposite layout.
I'm in the process of designing a trike with a Geo Metro drivetrain located in the rear and a rugged front suspension. The key to making it safe is keeping the center of gravity low, which can be accomplished fairly easily.
It's a matter of physics. With a little sniffing around on the Internet I was able to find several research papers regarding rollover and side stresses. While the math is far too complicated for me (and most people, I suspect) the conclusions were pretty clear. A vehicle with two wheels in front becomes unstable during an accelerating turn, while two wheel in back has stability problems during a decelerating turn. Two wheels up front can lead to a forward tipover under heavy braking and two wheels in back can allow the front wheel to rise up off the road.
The classic VW trike (hideous beasts) have severe wheelie problem due to the heavy weight of the engine behind the rear axle, and worse, a very dangerous tendency to push thru a turn because of the tiny motorcycle wheel in front. However, because the weight of the engine and transmission is kept low, the tipover potential is reduced. The fact that such trikes are generally driven in a non-performance manner further helps to keep them upright. I found very few instances when they tipped - generally any accidents were the result of trying to turn too sharply for the front to maintain traction and they slid off the road or hit something in the way.
My intent, at least for this particular vehicle, is a high-mileage, single passenger commuter. A Geo Metro is not known for stellar performance thanks to a wheezy 1.0 litre engine, but if you reduce the weight by half, cut the rolling friction by deleting one wheel, and give it a much smaller CD, mileage will increase dramatically and the horsepower to weight ratio becomes close to a Honda Accord. Here's a preliminary layout, sans frame:
The driver's butt will be about 20" above the ground. The front uses a stock Metro wheel, knuckle and rotor connected to a single-sided fork, and attached to the frame via parallel A-arms. Using the standard tires, the vehicle should slide before tipping, which is the same result as a car, and given the width of the front tire, it won't push in a turn.
Consider the DeltaWing race car. Even though it has four wheels, the two in front are only 4" wide and just 18" apart, giving it very similar dynamics as a trike. Poke around on YouTube and watch it run at Road Atlanta, passing more powerful cars as if they were hauling bags of cement. You can also see it crash when an idiot Porsche driver swerves right into it.
So, to sum up, it's not the layout that matters - it's the design. As I get further all, I'll post more pics.
Cheers.
New Videos of the Polaris Slingshot.....they have the money and are really on Marketing and the Media and that is good to spread the word on threewheelers....I hope there is a spill-over effect on the smaller threewheeler manufactures....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyDN3wI--Mw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohoHU35Pjxk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iak9pUpNgqI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyP560cDAbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgfx2PsnQzY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl7yrtSdz3Q
USA Media Coverage :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuXWHGEBPT0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGtB3B-Gikc&li...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oISqdXwbK8c&li...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyDN3wI--Mw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohoHU35Pjxk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iak9pUpNgqI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyP560cDAbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgfx2PsnQzY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl7yrtSdz3Q
USA Media Coverage :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuXWHGEBPT0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGtB3B-Gikc&li...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oISqdXwbK8c&li...
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