Vixen - body mods - advice and guidance
Discussion
Dear all,
I am making slow but steady progress on my Vixen teardown and rebuild. I am starting to research ‘improvements’ to the body so if the purists could bear with me, I would appreciate advice and guidance on possible mods to the Vixen body.
[apologies to those that own the pictures that I have used below ......]
Roof line leading edge
Steve Joyce has been super helpful guiding me on modifications to the roof line leading edge. As I understand it, at speed the leading edge of the roof can flex with the risk that the glass can become dislodged. I believe the usual fix is to stiffen the roof line leading edge (with a strip of steel or wood?) and then hide this inside of the headliner. Here is a picture of my roof. Does anyone have advice on whether the strengthening should be on the leading edge (ahead of the thick strengthening line – see picture) or after the strengthening line? Does anyone have a picture of the modification before the headline is fixed in place?
Footwell vents
There are two tubes from the engine bay into the footwells. I guess these were coupled with a louvred vent in the car (my interior was stripped before I received the car so have no history to see). Is there any merit in keeping this, don’t you get just hot air from the engine bay? What have others done?
Bonnet and valance
I have had a suggestion that I consider having a lightweight bonnet made? Is there really much weight saving to be made? It is true that the bonnet is pretty hefty but does not seem worth it to me. Any views?
What is the consensus on a chin valance? How much air gets under the front of the car and does it make the car unstable at speed? Here is a good example I like but I guess this is going to take a lot of work to build. I have heard that other builders have used an MGB valance and then worked from there. Is this worth the effort?
Fuel tank protection
I am not keen on the idea of using the fuel tank as a rear crumple zone. The good news is that I already have a new fuel tank but think that some rear protection is needed. There is a fellow in Canada who has done some impressive work on his 5000M. Does anyone have any examples and picture of having done this on a Vixen?
Roll cage
This should be a ‘must’. I see the advice that Caged is the best place to buy the roll cage (any other advice?) but would appreciate some advice on the best design? The roll cage above has one horizontal bar which is good for the harness straps but I guess is not as strong as a diagonal bar. Here is another example from Neil / Heightswitch and someone else.
Actually, I would have thought that the design should be an X but this might be overkill (no pun intended).
Neil / Heightswitch – I can see that you have made strengthened plates that the roll cage bolts onto. For the connection behind the seats, I guess you have cut a hole in the fibreglass, how did you seal the hole once the cage is bolted in? How did you attach the harness on that corner? How did you seal the hole for the rear connection? Also, what are the short vertical bars at the rear of the cage (just stop the diff holder)?
Thanks everyone.
Nigel
I am making slow but steady progress on my Vixen teardown and rebuild. I am starting to research ‘improvements’ to the body so if the purists could bear with me, I would appreciate advice and guidance on possible mods to the Vixen body.
[apologies to those that own the pictures that I have used below ......]
Roof line leading edge
Steve Joyce has been super helpful guiding me on modifications to the roof line leading edge. As I understand it, at speed the leading edge of the roof can flex with the risk that the glass can become dislodged. I believe the usual fix is to stiffen the roof line leading edge (with a strip of steel or wood?) and then hide this inside of the headliner. Here is a picture of my roof. Does anyone have advice on whether the strengthening should be on the leading edge (ahead of the thick strengthening line – see picture) or after the strengthening line? Does anyone have a picture of the modification before the headline is fixed in place?
Footwell vents
There are two tubes from the engine bay into the footwells. I guess these were coupled with a louvred vent in the car (my interior was stripped before I received the car so have no history to see). Is there any merit in keeping this, don’t you get just hot air from the engine bay? What have others done?
Bonnet and valance
I have had a suggestion that I consider having a lightweight bonnet made? Is there really much weight saving to be made? It is true that the bonnet is pretty hefty but does not seem worth it to me. Any views?
What is the consensus on a chin valance? How much air gets under the front of the car and does it make the car unstable at speed? Here is a good example I like but I guess this is going to take a lot of work to build. I have heard that other builders have used an MGB valance and then worked from there. Is this worth the effort?
Fuel tank protection
I am not keen on the idea of using the fuel tank as a rear crumple zone. The good news is that I already have a new fuel tank but think that some rear protection is needed. There is a fellow in Canada who has done some impressive work on his 5000M. Does anyone have any examples and picture of having done this on a Vixen?
Roll cage
This should be a ‘must’. I see the advice that Caged is the best place to buy the roll cage (any other advice?) but would appreciate some advice on the best design? The roll cage above has one horizontal bar which is good for the harness straps but I guess is not as strong as a diagonal bar. Here is another example from Neil / Heightswitch and someone else.
Actually, I would have thought that the design should be an X but this might be overkill (no pun intended).
Neil / Heightswitch – I can see that you have made strengthened plates that the roll cage bolts onto. For the connection behind the seats, I guess you have cut a hole in the fibreglass, how did you seal the hole once the cage is bolted in? How did you attach the harness on that corner? How did you seal the hole for the rear connection? Also, what are the short vertical bars at the rear of the cage (just stop the diff holder)?
Thanks everyone.
Nigel
Hi Neil,
It will be a road registered car that I plan to take to the track from time to time. At most it will be gentlemanly track time, not going to be trying to win any prizes just exercising the car.
So I am planning on doing sensible upgrades and safety stuff rather than seeking to beat anyone.
Thanks
Nigel
It will be a road registered car that I plan to take to the track from time to time. At most it will be gentlemanly track time, not going to be trying to win any prizes just exercising the car.
So I am planning on doing sensible upgrades and safety stuff rather than seeking to beat anyone.
Thanks
Nigel
Nigel.
If you are doing some track driving are you intending to install a full cage..My opinions don't really matter its your car but what I will say is that road cars used for competition are usually poor and race cars used on the road are very very poor!!
My advice would be to keep the body standard
The rear cages can be bought at a variety of places to do yourself,
To fit a cage you first fit it to the chassis..then cut holes in the shell to allow you to fit the cage in the car with the shell on, Then glass up the holes with the cage in situ.
If you are going to carry passengers then a simple rear hoop with rear stays and harness points in the rear stay should be adequate.
N.
If you are doing some track driving are you intending to install a full cage..My opinions don't really matter its your car but what I will say is that road cars used for competition are usually poor and race cars used on the road are very very poor!!
My advice would be to keep the body standard
The rear cages can be bought at a variety of places to do yourself,
To fit a cage you first fit it to the chassis..then cut holes in the shell to allow you to fit the cage in the car with the shell on, Then glass up the holes with the cage in situ.
If you are going to carry passengers then a simple rear hoop with rear stays and harness points in the rear stay should be adequate.
N.
Nigel,
Im sure there are plenty of threads here regarding the strengthening of the cars roof.
When my car was on the road, I would regularly take it out in the rain. I used to get a very wet right leg, to the point that i drilled a hole in the floor to let the water drain. I discovered that the water was getting in through the top of the window. The water was running all along the top or the window and then dropping down the leading edge of the door apeture. I even went to the lengths of taking the window out and re-sealing it and trying different sealant. The thing thats happening is that the roof is so flexible and that the pressure inside the car is different to the outtside water just poors in.
I had some advise from other Vixen owners, two main solutions inparticular:-
1)Involves the use of paper rope around the leading edge of the underside of the roof
2)Fibreglassing of brakets into the roof line which allows the front part of a full cage to bold onto.
So I'll be turning the shell over, and glassing the paper rope into the roof for the moment.
On the score of the chin spoiler, I recall driving down to Dorset region in convoy with Chims, Griffs and Wedge. My Vixen managed to keep up, travelling at speed to the point where the steering became how should I put it, a little light... I ofcourse backed off as soon as I discovered I could turn the steering and maintain the direction (straight ahead). I had started chopping a TR6 spoiler, one which could be added or removed as and when. I havent heard of any others having the same experience.
Most important thing of all.
Its your car!!
D
Im sure there are plenty of threads here regarding the strengthening of the cars roof.
When my car was on the road, I would regularly take it out in the rain. I used to get a very wet right leg, to the point that i drilled a hole in the floor to let the water drain. I discovered that the water was getting in through the top of the window. The water was running all along the top or the window and then dropping down the leading edge of the door apeture. I even went to the lengths of taking the window out and re-sealing it and trying different sealant. The thing thats happening is that the roof is so flexible and that the pressure inside the car is different to the outtside water just poors in.
I had some advise from other Vixen owners, two main solutions inparticular:-
1)Involves the use of paper rope around the leading edge of the underside of the roof
2)Fibreglassing of brakets into the roof line which allows the front part of a full cage to bold onto.
So I'll be turning the shell over, and glassing the paper rope into the roof for the moment.
On the score of the chin spoiler, I recall driving down to Dorset region in convoy with Chims, Griffs and Wedge. My Vixen managed to keep up, travelling at speed to the point where the steering became how should I put it, a little light... I ofcourse backed off as soon as I discovered I could turn the steering and maintain the direction (straight ahead). I had started chopping a TR6 spoiler, one which could be added or removed as and when. I havent heard of any others having the same experience.
Most important thing of all.
Its your car!!
D
Neil - many thanks - appreciate the advice on the cage but a rear cage is all I have in mind as I could not consider myself in anyway a serious driver on the track. Got it on glassing up the floor (where the cage attaches). What are those little vertical tubes on the back of your cage?
Daza - thanks also - it does seem that roof strengthening is a must, it rains very heavily here in Asia! I gather from your feedback that it is the leading edge that needs to be strengthened. I can see the paper rope products online - is this stiff enough, why didn't you decide to bond in a strip of wood to give even more strength? Do you have any views on whether a TR6 valance is better than an MGB one as a starting point?
Anyone have any views on protecting the rear fuel tank (this is surely the most important) or those footwell vents (does anyone keep them)?
Thanks all.
Nigel
Daza - thanks also - it does seem that roof strengthening is a must, it rains very heavily here in Asia! I gather from your feedback that it is the leading edge that needs to be strengthened. I can see the paper rope products online - is this stiff enough, why didn't you decide to bond in a strip of wood to give even more strength? Do you have any views on whether a TR6 valance is better than an MGB one as a starting point?
Anyone have any views on protecting the rear fuel tank (this is surely the most important) or those footwell vents (does anyone keep them)?
Thanks all.
Nigel
You should think very carefully on the protecting the fuel tank. For a low speed impact, additional bars may prevent the tank becoming deformed, but at higher speeds, would the bars actually help in piercing/damaging the tank? If the bars were thick enough (ie roll cage size) then thay may help, but it's all working in the unknown!
In my mind the only safe way would be to have a smaller tank, mounted close to the rear diff, and then develop an impact absorbing structure in the space left at the back of the body.
Personally I would be more concerned about a side impact from another vehicle damaging me! rather than an accident involving the fuel tank. If you are going to cage the car, then you must also consider where an unhelmeted head would/could hit the cage.
In my mind the only safe way would be to have a smaller tank, mounted close to the rear diff, and then develop an impact absorbing structure in the space left at the back of the body.
Personally I would be more concerned about a side impact from another vehicle damaging me! rather than an accident involving the fuel tank. If you are going to cage the car, then you must also consider where an unhelmeted head would/could hit the cage.
Hi David
Very good points - many thnks.
On the cage, I plan to have the rear cage only and change the seat so that there is no scope for my head to meet the bar.
On the fuel tank, I live in Asia where it is customary to use the telephone, drink coffee, watch TV and many other things in the car rather than pay attention to any small British car stopped at the lights in front of you. So, I am rather more worried about rear impact than side impact. In the example above, there is space to put a cage around the tank (and I also have space). I was also considering a fuel cell but cannot get over the cost (maybe I should). I was also thinking of putting foam inside the tank but don't think it will be that useful. Another idea was to put foam around the outside of the tank as well so that if there is a puncture it would not spray onto the fuel pump. Any advice?
Nigel
Very good points - many thnks.
On the cage, I plan to have the rear cage only and change the seat so that there is no scope for my head to meet the bar.
On the fuel tank, I live in Asia where it is customary to use the telephone, drink coffee, watch TV and many other things in the car rather than pay attention to any small British car stopped at the lights in front of you. So, I am rather more worried about rear impact than side impact. In the example above, there is space to put a cage around the tank (and I also have space). I was also considering a fuel cell but cannot get over the cost (maybe I should). I was also thinking of putting foam inside the tank but don't think it will be that useful. Another idea was to put foam around the outside of the tank as well so that if there is a puncture it would not spray onto the fuel pump. Any advice?
Nigel
Nigel
A few more musings:-
1) Will you carry a passenger, if not consider relocating the fuel tank to the passenger seat area, a la Tuscan racer
2) Move the fuel pump away from the tank!!! You can also suitably insulate all the tail electrics
3) If you are never going to brim the 15 gallon Vixen tank, then I would certainly consider having a smaller tank and allowing a bigger space between the rear of the car and the tank.
4) A disadvantage of putting foam round the outside of the tank is that you don't know the condition of the tank
5) Modify the rear lights to have Daylight Running Lights, a and consider having a bright high mounted brakelight(s), should be easy with a cage.
Hope that helps
davidy
A few more musings:-
1) Will you carry a passenger, if not consider relocating the fuel tank to the passenger seat area, a la Tuscan racer
2) Move the fuel pump away from the tank!!! You can also suitably insulate all the tail electrics
3) If you are never going to brim the 15 gallon Vixen tank, then I would certainly consider having a smaller tank and allowing a bigger space between the rear of the car and the tank.
4) A disadvantage of putting foam round the outside of the tank is that you don't know the condition of the tank
5) Modify the rear lights to have Daylight Running Lights, a and consider having a bright high mounted brakelight(s), should be easy with a cage.
Hope that helps
davidy
Maybe you are starting from the wrong place and trying to go to somewhere you cant. I have read this thread so many times over the years and when you consider a fuel cell but its too expensive you have to ask yourself why waste money on a chin spoiler. A fuel cell is less expensive than harp lessons but even if you can afford one its still in the car with you. The arrangement on the 5000M is at exactly the height that 95% of vehicles will go right over. Roll cage great but wont stop a van full of bricks lodging in your spleen if its hits the side of the car, nor for that matter will door bars. I could give you references from many medical journals with statistics on side impacts in USA in Volvos when SIPS was introduced but you would be horrified. No car is safe, lorries will always be bigger but TVRs from the 1960,s are probably the least safe of all. Paper roof strengthening and lightweight bonnet??, not sure how either will help. If you want safe(r) Honda Civic has just got great NCAP rating. A friend of mine was so obsessed with safety he decided to stay in bed for the rest of his life, eventually the roof fell in just after he,d taken his hard hat off. ( that bit was a joke but you get the drift). You pays your money.........
On a more positive note the footwell vents, the square hole is where the heater box fitted and the 4 round holes are for the tubes to the demisters and heat for cabin. There you go, at least you can demist the windscreen, thats as safe as it gets.
On a more positive note the footwell vents, the square hole is where the heater box fitted and the 4 round holes are for the tubes to the demisters and heat for cabin. There you go, at least you can demist the windscreen, thats as safe as it gets.
Edited by thegamekeeper on Wednesday 28th March 13:08
The paper rope was simply a product which was recommended by a book which I had read at some point. Its only function is a former, the shape of the fiberglass over the rope adds strength without extra weight. Fiberglassing the paper rope should be sufficient.
Regarding the spoiler, I can't tell you if the MG item is any better than the TR6 item. I've chopped the TR6 spoiler as it is, a TR6 spoiler is quite deep.
D
Regarding the spoiler, I can't tell you if the MG item is any better than the TR6 item. I've chopped the TR6 spoiler as it is, a TR6 spoiler is quite deep.
D
The paper rope was simply a product which was recommended by a book which I had read at some point. Its only function is a former, the shape of the fiberglass over the rope adds strength without extra weight. Fiberglassing the paper rope should be sufficient.
Regarding the spoiler, I can't tell you if the MG item is any better than the TR6 item. I've chopped the TR6 spoiler as it is, a TR6 spoiler is quite deep.
D
Regarding the spoiler, I can't tell you if the MG item is any better than the TR6 item. I've chopped the TR6 spoiler as it is, a TR6 spoiler is quite deep.
D
David - thanks for the extra musings. I already have a new tank (previous owner) and have some space around the tank that helps.
Neil - all fair points on safety. I guess I am more relaxed on what I can see in front of me and having been rear ended 4 times in the last 9 years here (always stopped at the lights) I may be over sensitive. I think I am going to add foam and move the fuel pump and add an electrical cut out for the pump on the dash. Maybe even some extra baffles to stiffen the rear end of the car in case of a minor bump. Thanks for the explanation on the vents. I am in the tropics so don't think I will be needing demist!
Daza - thanks for the extra thoughts.
Nigel
Neil - all fair points on safety. I guess I am more relaxed on what I can see in front of me and having been rear ended 4 times in the last 9 years here (always stopped at the lights) I may be over sensitive. I think I am going to add foam and move the fuel pump and add an electrical cut out for the pump on the dash. Maybe even some extra baffles to stiffen the rear end of the car in case of a minor bump. Thanks for the explanation on the vents. I am in the tropics so don't think I will be needing demist!
Daza - thanks for the extra thoughts.
Nigel
I'm still trying to get my head around how you would fit the body onto the chassis with a cage around the fuel tank. Surely you'd have to massively alter the rear of the shell?
Or would it just be cut some holes in the shell and then jiggle the cage in and through the holes when the body is on?
I would have thought it would be better to create some sort of shell around the fuel tank. Like a secondary tank which insulates the tank from the fibreglass sheel, which rubber grommets sealing the holes for the fuel pipe and fuel gauge sender wires.
Again, alot of work for a pretty small gain. Probably better to just keep an eye on what's going on behind you,
Or would it just be cut some holes in the shell and then jiggle the cage in and through the holes when the body is on?
I would have thought it would be better to create some sort of shell around the fuel tank. Like a secondary tank which insulates the tank from the fibreglass sheel, which rubber grommets sealing the holes for the fuel pipe and fuel gauge sender wires.
Again, alot of work for a pretty small gain. Probably better to just keep an eye on what's going on behind you,
The picture above is from the Canadian fellow with the very nice 5000M. It looks like he has an easier chassis to with (compared with our Vixens). Here is another picture from his build where he has fabricated two loops around the tank that are then bolted through the rear bulkhead to the chassis. I guess there are some holes in the rear bulkhead and once the body is on he bolts in the fuel tank carrier and glasses up the gaps.
The Vixen is more of a problem since there are not any obvious chassis rails to bolt onto. I had hoped someone had done this before ... but I am now thinking not. I will give it some thoughts, mock up some pictures in photoshop and go through it with my fabricator.
The challenge with watching out for those behind is that once I am stopped at a light or right hand turn, I am vulnerable, no running away from careless local drivers.
The Vixen is more of a problem since there are not any obvious chassis rails to bolt onto. I had hoped someone had done this before ... but I am now thinking not. I will give it some thoughts, mock up some pictures in photoshop and go through it with my fabricator.
The challenge with watching out for those behind is that once I am stopped at a light or right hand turn, I am vulnerable, no running away from careless local drivers.
Their is an argument to having no protection at the rear. that way when a heavy impact occurs the tank leaves the scene with the rest of the rear bodywork
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo3Zl5E9tVU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo3Zl5E9tVU
heightswitch said:
Their is an argument to having no protection at the rear. that way when a heavy impact occurs the tank leaves the scene with the rest of the rear bodywork
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo3Zl5E9tVU
Yes Neil, thats as valid an argument as not having a demister in a country that has 2400mm of rain annually, 150 daya a year with thunder storms and the highest rates of lightning activity worldwide. In the rainy season humidity is 100% and I,ve never neen to Singapore when it didn,t rain at least a little shower. Tropics rain, deserts none. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo3Zl5E9tVU
Gassing Station | TVR Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff