3000m converting to Hydraulic Clutch

[TVR by BVR]

Why don`t you fit a hydraulic release bearing, you only have to fit the master cylinder, measure up the free play by the release bearing fit the necessary shims, no fiddeling around with different bell housings, clutch release arms, slave cylinders and it takes up less room.
Negative part of it is they are not adjustable if the clutch start to slip it is a gearbox out job.

[anonymous-user]

TVR by BVR said:

Why don`t you fit a hydraulic release bearing, you only have to fit the master cylinder, measure up the free play by the release bearing fit the necessary shims, no fiddeling around with different bell housings, clutch release arms, slave cylinders and it takes up less room.
Negative part of it is they are not adjustable if the clutch start to slip it is a gearbox out job.

Bang on. I’ve had the vixen engine out to readjust the slave, and then again to cure a leak.

Options:

1. Long 7” bellhousing (all are cable) and adapter plate to gearbox plus slave bracket to reverse the slave action. Snag: gearstick will be at least 75mm further back so shortening gearbox needed

2. Short bellhousing (all are hydraulic) with adapter plate to gearbox but plate will weaken the bellhousing possibly too much. Gearstick 25mm back.

3. Ali special bellhousing (cable) so no adapter plate, plus slave bracket to reverse the slave action. Gearstick 50mm further back

I’m leaning towards 2 now.
I won’t have an internal concentric slave as they’re a nightmare.
Very few have succeeded in doing this conversion with an external hydraulic slave and I can see why!!

[Dollyman1850]

I have had a concentric slave in the race car for about 10 years.. engine been out a few times for other things but the slave never given any trouble. Also got a concentric in Dads vixen.. 3 years service and no trouble... we did have an initial issue with master size but that was installer error.. add to that most modern cars have concentric release bearings these days and you rarely need to remove them... I am not really sure what you need to adjust on a diaphragm clutch with a fixed motion hydraulic piston once installed but hey.... I might be missing something....

Neil.

[anonymous-user]

Dollyman1850 said:

I have had a concentric slave in the race car for about 10 years.. engine been out a few times for other things but the slave never given any trouble. Also got a concentric in Dads vixen.. 3 years service and no trouble... we did have an initial issue with master size but that was installer error.. add to that most modern cars have concentric release bearings these days and you rarely need to remove them... I am not really sure what you need to adjust on a diaphragm clutch with a fixed motion hydraulic piston once installed but hey.... I might be missing something....

Neil.

Not really missing anything Neil, I would just prefer to have an external slave, OE setup. Adjustable and maintainable externally and leaks visible. Not reliant on initial setup.
I did the vixen with concentric but out of necessity and I’ve now got an RS1600 hens teeth hydraulic bellhousing and setup I’ll fit at the next opportunity.
We all have disasters, I don’t want to be taking the V6 out to faff with it in the future.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 3rd February 13:17

[plasticpig72]

Will the Hydraulic Clutch mean the pedal will be lighter.
What's the advantage
Alan

[anonymous-user]

plasticpig72 said:

Will the Hydraulic Clutch mean the pedal will be lighter.
What's the advantage
Alan

Not having to bodge up a new pedal box for a start !

[anonymous-user]

V6 Pushfit said:

plasticpig72 said:

Will the Hydraulic Clutch mean the pedal will be lighter.
What's the advantage
Alan

Not having to bodge up a new pedal box for a start !

You can play with cylinder sizes Alan. This will give you the clutch weight you desire.

[anonymous-user]

TVRMs said:

You can play with cylinder sizes Alan. This will give you the clutch weight you desire.

Good point too. Internal slaves are great only if there’s absolutely no other way.

[plasticpig72]

So i wonder does someone have a Drawing of the Slave Cylinder Bracket.
Alan

[Erich Stahler]

The amusing this about this thread is I asked the question about conversion to a hydraulic clitch on 13th January 2013, 7 years ago! have since decided to stay with the original wire actuated clutch as it was far less hassle.

But any responses will be useful to someone so thanks everyone for your replies.

[anonymous-user]

plasticpig72 said:

So i wonder does someone have a Drawing of the Slave Cylinder Bracket.
Alan

Good question. Its the part that enables all of this - a drawing would be most welcome if anyone has the part under a bench

[plasticpig72]

Yes, even a free hand sketch with a few dimensions will do.
Alan

[phillpot]

It's not exactly precsion engineering! Shouldn't be too hard to knock something up from the photo I posted earlier, using the cylinder as a guide to measurements.
Not visible but behind the cylinder the plate it is bolted to bends round and hooks into the openning in the bellhousing. A bolt goes through the hole at the front, there's a spacer on mine but possibly the bracket could be made a little longer?
A bit too long or short can be corrected with the length of the pushrod

Photo again for anyone who's not been paying attention ...........

[anonymous-user]

phillpot said:

It's not exactly precsion engineering! Shouldn't be too hard to knock something up from the photo I posted earlier, using the cylinder as a guide to measurements.
Not visible but behind the cylinder the plate it is bolted to bends round and hooks into the openning in the bellhousing. A bolt goes through the hole at the front, there's a spacer on mine but possibly the bracket could be made a little longer?
A bit too long or short can be corrected with the length of the pushrod

Photo again for anyone who's not been paying attention ...........

This is the key to converting:

a) A 'long' 7" V6 Essex cable bellhousing. It will still need an adapter plate to fit a Type 9 gearbox - these are from the Capri Club
b) The ali aftermarket 'long' 7" V6 Essex cable bellhousings ie from Burton/BGH etc. No adapter plate needed
c) The rare Ford 72GB 7505 LA cable bellhousing. No adapter plate needed

I'm trying the shorter 6" (used on Scims and already on mine) bellhousing which is already hydraulic, with an adapter plate. This will make the gearstick 12mm (plate) + 25mm (Type 9) = 37mm further back which can be achieved by moving the Type 9 gearstick 37mm further forward so its in the existing position.

No one has used the adapted plate on the short bellhousing before but I'll give it a try.

[anonymous-user]

If I was converting a 3000m the best way would be to change from a 7" cable bellhousing to 6" hydraulic with an adapter plate which would put the gearstick only 12mm forward of where it is now.

I'll update when I've tried the adapter plate on the 6" bellhousing to confirm if it works or not

[anonymous-user]

All seems to be working. Type 9 adapter plate from Capri Club and the 6” hydraulic bellhousing. CC haven’t used the plate in that bellhousing before but it works fine. Just having the bellhousing machines internally at the moment so the boot heads register in a flat surface. All-in cost £140 + bellhousing which is better than the rare bellhousing which is £300+ and not hydraulic anyway.

[anonymous-user]

The last photo is the fourth bellhousing to gearbox cap head which needs the bellhousing milled to fit - I used a 21mm hole saw. There are three M12’s bellhousing through adapter plate to gearbox, 1 M12 adapter plate to gearbox and five 3/8 adapter plate to bellhousing.

All fits well. Overall depth just under 7”

[Geschwindigkeit]

I'm just about to do this, I've read the last few posts with interest..... I've just acquired a type 9 5 speed which has come out of a 3 litre Capri with the 'long' cable clutch bellhousng plus adapter plate. My Taimar already has the O/D gearbox with hydraulic clutch and I'm wanting to use the bellhousing from that to achieve the 5 speed conversion with wet clutch operation.

I'm perhaps being a bit thick here but if the Essex hydraulic bellhousing is a little shorter in length won't there be a need for some kind of spacer as well as the adapter plate to make up the difference in 'short' and 'long' configuration bellhousings?

Any light at the end of this tunnel would be most welcome - many thanks in anticipation.

[anonymous-user]

Geschwindigkeit said:

I'm just about to do this, I've read the last few posts with interest..... I've just acquired a type 9 5 speed which has come out of a 3 litre Capri with the 'long' cable clutch bellhousng plus adapter plate. My Taimar already has the O/D gearbox with hydraulic clutch and I'm wanting to use the bellhousing from that to achieve the 5 speed conversion with wet clutch operation.

I'm perhaps being a bit thick here but if the Essex hydraulic bellhousing is a little shorter in length won't there be a need for some kind of spacer as well as the adapter plate to make up the difference in 'short' and 'long' configuration bellhousings?

Any light at the end of this tunnel would be most welcome - many thanks in anticipation.

The 'long' bellhousing is 7" and the 'short' one is 6". The adapter plate is 10mm so the whole arrangement is 15mm shorter than the existing (to the face of the gearbox).

Here are the differences between the Type 9 and Type 5 gearboxes (ignoring bellhousing lengths) - also showing the difference in the mount positions. My existing bellhousing was short hydraulic so wont change:



I hope this helps

[Geschwindigkeit]

Thanks for the prompt reply - the drawings are really useful. Does the input shaft need any attention length wise? (Again - apologies if I'm being thick!!).

Plus - did you modify the gear lever housing yourself to bring it the 30mm forward that's required?

Edited by Geschwindigkeit on Monday 18th May 19:49