3000m converting to Hydraulic Clutch

[Erich Stahler]

Does anyone know which master and slave cylinders were used on the early cars, mine is a 1977 model with a cable clutch which i am reverting back to hydraulic, have obtained an earlier bell housing which is a different casting to accommodate the slave.

Is the pressed steel arm attached to the thrust bearing different for the hydraulic setup?

[phillpot]

Converted my Taimar to hydraulic. It's had a "T5" five speed conversion but the adaptor plate is between the gearbox and bell housing so I believe the bell housing, release arm and bearing are all still the original Ford items.

I used parts from a later S Series car, everything bolted on "a piece of cake"

TVR slave cylinder bracket and pushrod....



Master cylinder bolted straight on, holes already in pedal box.....



Once I was happy it all worked I cut the cable operating arm off and filled the hole....

[Erich Stahler]

Thanks Philpot, that looks promising, I don't suppose you know the Girling part numbers for the master and slave do you?

In fact the master cylinder looks remarkably like this

Edited by Erich Stahler on Sunday 13th January 17:24

Edited by Erich Stahler on Sunday 13th January 17:25

[phillpot]

Erich Stahler said:

In fact the master cylinder looks remarkably like this

Yep, that looks good, was common to an awful lot of cars back in 60's - 70's although some look same but were 5/8" bore.

Slave cylinder is from Land Rover series 3, readily available and very cheap on Ebay. I've got a number "591231" scribbled in my little black book ?

The release arm will have a "key hole" type slot in it to accept a cable, ideally this should be welded up to a round hole to accept the pushrod ( but TVR never bothered on the S Series ) to prevent un-even wear on the pushrod

Edited by phillpot on Sunday 13th January 19:42

[Erich Stahler]

Excellent, thank you very much!

[phillpot]

Mine is the only one I've ever seen, there may be various types used or mine may be "non-standard" ?

But, having said that, whatever is sticking out of the bellhousing, if a cable can pull it, with a bit of jiggling it should be possible to make a hydraulic cylinder push it?
That bracket in my first photo, there is a spacer about 16mm goes between the hole on the right and engine block then a bolt goes through what was the cable hole.

Master cylinder went straight on mine, pedal box is from a TR6? from memory my TR6 (many years ago) was hydraulic clutch, thinking about it, may have been a TR6 M/C I bought for my conversion?

[RCK974X]

I think Vixen S3 series had the TR6 pedal box - but I also think most clutch master cyls had the same bolt spacing anyway....even between common manufacturers.

Most common problems going from cable to Hyd (or other way) is that there's not always a convenient spot to bolt the mounting backet to - sounds silly, but I still reckon it's true.

eg. Have a look at the Dolly sprint gearbox adaptor - a 2500 saloon gearbox with cast adaptor about 1 inch wide, and a truly horrendously complicated bracket attached to the top of the gearcase (!!) for the slave cylinder......

[Erich Stahler]

RCK974X said:

I think Vixen S3 series had the TR6 pedal box - but I also think most clutch master cyls had the same bolt spacing anyway....even between common manufacturers.

Most common problems going from cable to Hyd (or other way) is that there's not always a convenient spot to bolt the mounting backet to - sounds silly, but I still reckon it's true.

eg. Have a look at the Dolly sprint gearbox adaptor - a 2500 saloon gearbox with cast adaptor about 1 inch wide, and a truly horrendously complicated bracket attached to the top of the gearcase (!!) for the slave cylinder......

If your referring to the salve cylinder location I have bought an earlier bell housing which has the slave mounting point.

[RCK974X]

Yes, I was - I assumed that the bellhousing would be a cable type (on most vehicles I've seen, this means cable bracket is actually on engine block).

I forgot, of course, that the good ol' Essex had hydraulic bellhousings too !!

[Erich Stahler]

Erich Stahler said:

RCK974X said:

I think Vixen S3 series had the TR6 pedal box - but I also think most clutch master cyls had the same bolt spacing anyway....even between common manufacturers.

Most common problems going from cable to Hyd (or other way) is that there's not always a convenient spot to bolt the mounting backet to - sounds silly, but I still reckon it's true.

eg. Have a look at the Dolly sprint gearbox adaptor - a 2500 saloon gearbox with cast adaptor about 1 inch wide, and a truly horrendously complicated bracket attached to the top of the gearcase (!!) for the slave cylinder......

If your referring to the salve cylinder location I have bought an earlier bell housing which has the slave mounting point.

Well, its definiteley an Essex V6 bell hosuing, but unfortunatley i didnt check if its for a Type five gearbox :-(

New bell housing on the left!

[the other tim]

The one on the left looks like the Zodiac one I fitted in an Essex powered ski boat, do check the distance between the gearbox and block mounting face's compared to your cable bellhousing as I seem to remember the Zodiac one was shorter.

Tim

[jellison]

Erich Stahler said:

Well, its definiteley an Essex V6 bell hosuing, but unfortunatley i didnt check if its for a Type five gearbox :-(

New bell housing on the left!

have you tried the box up to the bellhousing with integrated slave?

If not, back on ebay and get the bolt on slave for the original bellhousing.

[Erich Stahler]

jellison said:

have you tried the box up to the bellhousing with integrated slave?

If not, back on ebay and get the bolt on slave for the original bellhousing.

Its for a 2000E Bullet box which has a smaller register and completley different mounting hole pattern, so no good.

Will make a bracket for the slave, which one of the chaps on this thread has kindly supplied correct part number.


http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-gu...

[jellison]

Erich Stahler said:

jellison said:

have you tried the box up to the bellhousing with integrated slave?

If not, back on ebay and get the bolt on slave for the original bellhousing.

Its for a 2000E Bullet box which has a smaller register and completley different mounting hole pattern, so no good.

Will make a bracket for the slave, which one of the chaps on this thread has kindly supplied correct part number.

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-gu...

ah cool - back on ebay then - done that a few time in my build or popped to one side to do at the end!!

I have an alloy Small block ford bellhousing you could have

[ATE399J]

Erich Stahler said:

jellison said:

have you tried the box up to the bellhousing with integrated slave?

If not, back on ebay and get the bolt on slave for the original bellhousing.

Its for a 2000E Bullet box which has a smaller register and completley different mounting hole pattern, so no good.

Will make a bracket for the slave, which one of the chaps on this thread has kindly supplied correct part number.


http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-gu...

Erich,

If the "new" one is what I think it is they are pretty rare, originally used on the Essex V4, they allow the Type 9 5-speed 'box to be fitted to the essex V6. Also, the clutch slave you have as a part of it is becoming a difficult part to get. As an ally part mounted in a steel ring they tend to become one and inpossible to part. Last year I had to destroy mine to get it out; it was either that or take the engine and 'box out of the car to try and change the seals in situ.

If you have no need of it I'll take it off your hands for a small fee

Phil.

[Adrian@]

Phil, IF it WAS for the type 9 box it would have a 5th centre top hole (which it does not).

Also, I have twice tried to fit the S type clutch system onto an M and failed both times (I have all the S parts)...I suspect that there is 2 different versions for the S system and you will need to find the correct version to suit the your bell housing also the later M pedal box has different issues.

Philpott is correct in that HIS system uses the standard release arm (as it is MY conversion) this is NOT NORMALLY the case.

Adrian@

As a comment, ALL the M series require a bracket adding to the sump (this requires the bracket and a longer bolt) to hold the standard clutch cable away from the exhaust, as IF they touch it melts all the plastics to the metal within the cable and causes the cable to be stiff.

Edited by Adrian@ on Monday 21st January 10:29

[Astacus]

Minor thread hijack,

My Vixen has a Cortina GT box and bell housing with the hydraulic clutch. It has this type of actuator



does anyone know which bell housing boot I need?

These two appear to be common, but I don't think they are correct:





The top one seems to have the right shape slot, but, having spoken to the supplier, apparently it is the wrong size to fit the appature on the bell housing. The bottom one seems to have the wrong shaped slot to take the arm. Various comments on other boards suggest they are now unavailable.

If any of the specialists keep them in stock please let me know. Of if anyone has a spare they wouldn't mind parting with ().......

Thanks

Edited by Astacus on Monday 21st January 11:42

[ATE399J]

Adrian@ said:

Phil, IF it WAS for the type 9 box it would have a 5th centre top hole (which it does not).

OK, Adrian, does that mean it would fit the Zodiac O/D 'box I have?

[spegru]

Hi this is an old thread but it has just what I need for a clutch conversion I am working on.
The Ford 5 speed gearbox is Type 9 by the way not Type 5

Anyway that Clutch slave cylinder/pushrod/mounting bracket are exactly what I need for a Type 9 Hydraulic clutch conversion
Can anyone recommend a place to get them from? Also a tiny question regarding the push rod - is it fixed into the slave cylinder?

Thanks for any help

[anonymous-user]

spegru said:

Hi this is an old thread but it has just what I need for a clutch conversion I am working on.
The Ford 5 speed gearbox is Type 9 by the way not Type 5

Anyway that Clutch slave cylinder/pushrod/mounting bracket are exactly what I need for a Type 9 Hydraulic clutch conversion
Can anyone recommend a place to get them from? Also a tiny question regarding the push rod - is it fixed into the slave cylinder?

Thanks for any help

I dont believe there is a hydraulic bellhousing to fit the type 9 to an Essex - the V4 etc bellhousings are all cable.

Does anyone know where to get the S Series slave cylinder bracket to get the slave to work the other way round?

If anyone has a spare I would be grateful for a borrow as a pattern to make one, for a fee.

Thanks