New build, old school shell on later spec chassis - discuss?
Discussion
my250gt said:
GadgeS3C said:
A chap local to me is planning to put a Vixen shell on a Chimaera rolling chassis. Not sure how far he's got as I think it's his next project...
Would be interested to know how far he has got with it and what his plans were for the final look etc?Gary
my250gt said:
This is my inspiration, this is how i want it to look
I prefer the fia approved style they allowed till 2009.
(Or white TR4's!!)
Steve Watton's BEAST - definitely the Fastest Griff to date. Was (at the time) built to fia spec bar much tweeked later Ford, modern front brakes and Yoko's.
Edited by jellison on Tuesday 15th January 19:09
Slow M said:
be FAR stiffer than even an advanced multitube (just covering myself there !!)...
Andy, I just thought of another thing, when looking at those torsional rigidity numbers.
Sure, in terms of NVH transmission, the stiffer, the better. Simple as that.
On the handling front, the thing to look at, is that the chassis is resisting the load put into it by its own mass and power. Therefore, presuming two cars with the same chassis rigidity measurement, a 2,000lb car with 300HP will twist much less than a 3,000lb car with 400HP.
Neil,
Help me get a job in architecture, please. That way, I won't have time for all of this extra thinking.
Best,
B.
If one already owned a 1971 Vixen 2500 (round tube car) would it be a simple matter to put a 2500M frame under it? Would it be as easy as separating the vixen from its frame and installing it on the M frame with no modifications to the vixen body shell? From time to time I see 2500m cars being parted out and wonder if I should pick up the frame for safe keeping for a future project.
hi slow m, erich is quite right, a photo to prove that they raced in international competition in 65 was demanded by the powers and after much searching and anxst one was found racing if i remember right in a martini internatinal at brands. the photo was oblique, at an angle, the styling was horid just aluminium strips sticking out, very rough and ready amaturism. the first bonnet was made, beautifully flared and as you suggest, blended, but rejected out of hand saying it needed to look like the photo. a second bonnet was made, this too rejected and then the current one was made really in desperation to comply and finaly accepted. so that is how that bonnet came to be like that. neals is by far the best as i see it, but i've had another couple of thoughts come into mind since and i might apply them to the wide bodied tuscan i might never get round to building, still something to occupy ones mind eh. best regards keith
!BUILD IT!Slow M said:
Andy,
Actually, I was disagreeing with you, on that point. I think that if we look at some monocoques, and compare them to the TVR chassis in the article, it'll give some perspective. <snip>
Best,
B.
Oh .. Right. I stand corrected....No worries. I know there were GRP monocoques around too, some kit cars were done this way. Of course I agree that once you bolt a body to the chassis, it gives opportunity for further load sharing. And of course the Lotus Evora (?) actually has a ally chassis which is glued together !! Amazing engineering, to me at least. At least one kit I remember was built around two marine ply boxes in each sill area, and loads resolved into the boxes. Apparently it was rather good. Can't remember kit name.... Actually, I was disagreeing with you, on that point. I think that if we look at some monocoques, and compare them to the TVR chassis in the article, it'll give some perspective. <snip>
Best,
B.
To go back though, I was interested in how much stiffer a wedge is to a Vixen for example, if anyone knows. I do know the Wedge has quite a bit of marine ply bonded in its body too, which all helps improve its stiffness....
RCK974X said:
...And of course the Lotus Evora (?) actually has a ally chassis which is glued together !! Amazing engineering, to me at least...
The first car to pioneer the Al bonding technology, as far as I recall, was the Aston Martin Bulldog. That car was WAAAAAYYYY ahead of its time. I think it was ALCOA, or ALCAN, or some such major corporation that helped to underwrite the project, or at least lend technical assistance. Else it was one of the chemical giants. RCK974X said:
...At least one kit I remember was built around two marine ply boxes in each sill area, and loads resolved into the boxes. Apparently it was rather good. Can't remember kit name....
Are you sure it wasn't the early Marcos body? Best,
B.
hmmm.. I think the Alzheimer's is catching up with me !!
AM Bulldog - OK. I remember the Lotus being demonstrated as amazing tech.....fair enough, they weren't the first !
Marcos - just for confirmation, my understanding is that the early marcos had a wooden CHASSIS. Later on they went to steel as it was cheaper.
This kit I remembered had longitudinal plywood boxes bonded into the body as a load bearing GRP monocoque. I think it may have had Fiesta mechanicals, but not sure. Must have been about 1989-90 ??
The early Mini Marcos kit car was also a GRP MQ as I remember.. the mini subframes bolted to steel spreader plates in the GRP...
I also remember some very BAD kit car chassis designs too, but I won't mention names !!
AM Bulldog - OK. I remember the Lotus being demonstrated as amazing tech.....fair enough, they weren't the first !
Marcos - just for confirmation, my understanding is that the early marcos had a wooden CHASSIS. Later on they went to steel as it was cheaper.
This kit I remembered had longitudinal plywood boxes bonded into the body as a load bearing GRP monocoque. I think it may have had Fiesta mechanicals, but not sure. Must have been about 1989-90 ??
The early Mini Marcos kit car was also a GRP MQ as I remember.. the mini subframes bolted to steel spreader plates in the GRP...
I also remember some very BAD kit car chassis designs too, but I won't mention names !!
my250gt said:
jellison said:
Steve Watton's BEAST - definitely the Fastest Griff to date. Was (at the time) built to fia spec bar much tweeked later Ford, modern front brakes ]
I have a copy of Retro Cars mag with that car in, AWESOME !Was fun to race against it (when I say race I mean that loosely), you could keep up in the slow stuff but on the straights itwas just GONE. On a short track, on lap time you could get close, but in terms of position, no chance (in a TR anyway). Have some great videos of it.
Pity it was bought by a wally who could not drive. Hopefully mine can take over from where Steves left off.
As a concept I think it's great if you can make it work. My son loves to watch custom my ride or whatever it's called and I've seen them do similar projects. They did a classic charger shell on a new model car. It looked great considering some of the horrendous stuff they churn out. I also saw an old beetle shell on a boxster s platform. Can't say I was a fan of the look of that one but it was an interesting project.
Good luck with it.
Good luck with it.
my250gt said:
jellison said:
Have some great videos of it..
- Are they on Youtube??ANS:- Look under MaximumAttack575
jellison said:
Hopefully mine can take over from where Steves left off..
When will yours be done?ANS:- Hopefully April
How could he ever sell a car like that???
Stunning Build / prep he does - ours should be at this level, or in some areas even better (raced that for a year or so before a Germany Banker or some such offered silly money for it). He is just finishing a 911 3.0 RSR for this year
Excellent Idea, I was imagining about such TVR sort also since I came across this advertisement of that beautiful body shell wide-body Griff
http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command...
I was thinking, wow...you could build up a 'new' TVR with Griffith wide body looks, cool...
and then not a heavy iron V8 but say a light alu tuned Rover 4.6 with say 300+ hp in the front.
I also collected more chassis info to see what wheelbase TVR's came with, don't know if alll is correct but here you go
--Type <>length & wheelbase the with <<<< seem to have the same wheelbase
--Sagaris = 4057mm & 2361mm
--Tuscan = 4235mm & 2361mm
--T350 = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Tamora = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Cerbera = 4280mm & 2566mm
--Chimaera = 4015mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Griffith = 3900mm & 2286mm <<<<
--V8S = 3957mm & 2286mm <<<<
--S2 = 3957mm & 2286mm <<<<
--S = 3962mm & 2286mm <<<<
--450SEAC = 4013mm & 2413mm
--400SE = 4013mm & 2413mm
--420SEAC = 4013mm & 2388mm
--390SE = 4013mm & 2388mm
--Taimar Tur = 4013mm & 2286mm <<<<
--3000M = 4013mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Taimar = 4013mm & 2286mm <<<<
--2500M = 3912mm & 2286mm <<<<
--1600M = 3940mm & 2286mm <<<<
--1300 S4 = 3683mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Vixen S3 = 3683mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Vixen S2 = 3683mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Tuscan V6 = 3683mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Tuscan V8 = 3886mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Griffith V8 = 3556mm & 2172mm
--1800S = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura 3 = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura = 3505mm & 2134mm
there were also some Vixen and Tuscan's with the same wheelbase as say the Griffith/Chimaera
also, there is a very nice (for the price) 1600M for sale in the classified's which also has the M chassis
and looks a bit like some later Tuscan V8 LWB wide body, but then without say the airvent in the B? pilar, I was thinking, hey...that could be a fine basis for such Tuscan V8 clone for someone.
http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command...
I was thinking, wow...you could build up a 'new' TVR with Griffith wide body looks, cool...
and then not a heavy iron V8 but say a light alu tuned Rover 4.6 with say 300+ hp in the front.
I also collected more chassis info to see what wheelbase TVR's came with, don't know if alll is correct but here you go
--Type <>length & wheelbase the with <<<< seem to have the same wheelbase
--Sagaris = 4057mm & 2361mm
--Tuscan = 4235mm & 2361mm
--T350 = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Tamora = 3925mm & 2361mm
--Cerbera = 4280mm & 2566mm
--Chimaera = 4015mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Griffith = 3900mm & 2286mm <<<<
--V8S = 3957mm & 2286mm <<<<
--S2 = 3957mm & 2286mm <<<<
--S = 3962mm & 2286mm <<<<
--450SEAC = 4013mm & 2413mm
--400SE = 4013mm & 2413mm
--420SEAC = 4013mm & 2388mm
--390SE = 4013mm & 2388mm
--Taimar Tur = 4013mm & 2286mm <<<<
--3000M = 4013mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Taimar = 4013mm & 2286mm <<<<
--2500M = 3912mm & 2286mm <<<<
--1600M = 3940mm & 2286mm <<<<
--1300 S4 = 3683mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Vixen S3 = 3683mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Vixen S2 = 3683mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Tuscan V6 = 3683mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Tuscan V8 = 3886mm & 2286mm <<<<
--Griffith V8 = 3556mm & 2172mm
--1800S = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura 3 = 3505mm & 2172mm
--Grantura = 3505mm & 2134mm
there were also some Vixen and Tuscan's with the same wheelbase as say the Griffith/Chimaera
also, there is a very nice (for the price) 1600M for sale in the classified's which also has the M chassis
and looks a bit like some later Tuscan V8 LWB wide body, but then without say the airvent in the B? pilar, I was thinking, hey...that could be a fine basis for such Tuscan V8 clone for someone.
Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 16th January 10:52
Keith - I saw the below the other day, presume made by you?
Clearly I'm not going down this route at least for the next 10 years!
A Ford SBF with Alloy heads is not heavy (way lighter than a SBC with Alloy or Iron heads).
SBF is a thin wall cast block and is really pretty light (and you can make sill power from it if the right things done), more scope than an RV8 (why do you think I binned my 500 RV8 lump all those years back for the first LS Swap
).
Jelly
Clearly I'm not going down this route at least for the next 10 years!
A Ford SBF with Alloy heads is not heavy (way lighter than a SBC with Alloy or Iron heads).
SBF is a thin wall cast block and is really pretty light (and you can make sill power from it if the right things done), more scope than an RV8 (why do you think I binned my 500 RV8 lump all those years back for the first LS Swap
).Jelly
so then a SBF is the 'better' way to go for?
did not know the difference in SBC and or SBF
would be nice though to have such sort under the bonnet, 331/347 Street Crate 425hp
is the 408/418 Street Crate with 515hp more difficult to install under the bonnet or is it not way bigger?
also, what is the engine weight in the same dress from say a Rover 4.6/5.0 and or SBF 302/331/408 etc.
performance wise the Fords look better and I guess more reliable with those HP figures?
did not know the difference in SBC and or SBF
would be nice though to have such sort under the bonnet, 331/347 Street Crate 425hp
is the 408/418 Street Crate with 515hp more difficult to install under the bonnet or is it not way bigger?
also, what is the engine weight in the same dress from say a Rover 4.6/5.0 and or SBF 302/331/408 etc.
performance wise the Fords look better and I guess more reliable with those HP figures?
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