3000M - upgrading to modern spec

[GTRene]

like this you mean? looks indeed very low

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-MONDEO-ST24-MK2-2-5...



and that from a 3.0 will that also fit?

[griffer500]

@Mads:
Okay so when a read your message.
A Jaguar X Type engine 3.0V6 with manual gearbox could fit under the bonnet. I know this would be not a play and play when I skip the Essex. But I think it’s the best way to achieve 200+ HP in this car. Your home made separate intake manyfolds are A+ but they are a bridge to far for mine craftsmanship.

For now a Jaguar X Type engine 3.0V6 looks like a serious plan for me.

[gmw9666]

griffer500 said:

@Mads:
Okay so when a read your message.
A Jaguar X Type engine 3.0V6 with manual gearbox could fit under the bonnet. I know this would be not a play and play when I skip the Essex. But I think it’s the best way to achieve 200+ HP in this car. Your home made separate intake manyfolds are A+ but they are a bridge to far for mine craftsmanship.

For now a Jaguar X Type engine 3.0V6 looks like a serious plan for me.

isn't it the S type that has the engine mounted inline + manual box vs the X type which is across ways?

I'm sure mads will be along to guide :-)

[GTRene]

would such 3.7 Ford engine also fit under the bonnet?
it has a sweet 302hp NA.

[madsvlund]

Sure the 3.7 is a sweet engine, but it dont fit parts with the mazda/ford/jaguar versions of the engine.

It's correct that the x type is in a normal front drive setup, like the mondeo variants. And therefore have the throttlebody (and water pump) mounted on top of the gearbox. The S type is the only version with a normal rwd setup, and a few made with manual gearbox, that suit the TVR frame very well.

On the intake side, are there some small variations between the various versions, but all share the same spacing between the tuber, and thus are interchangeable. A very good thing in the design is that the manifold is split in 2 parts, with an upper and lower part. The injectors and fuel rail is placed in the lower part, so actually you can make a very simple "upper part" that can fit under the bonnet.

Lower part is looking like this:
http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/attachments/s-ty...

And you could make a simple upper version from square steel tube, which will flow equally to the mondeo version (which is quite bad)

Mounting the engine is quite straight forward, only interference is the alternator, but if you don't need the servo pump, can you relocate the alternator to the left side of the engine where there are plenty of space.

And if you require more than 240 hp (which is enough for 60 mph wheelspin in 3'th gear on damp morning roads) do piper cams or Motune a camset for the engine that will take it to 270-300 hp depending on plenums. And Motune can take it close to 380hp if money is not a question :-)

For the ECU side are there many options, but I will be deficult to reuse the original setup, but VEMS-DTA-etc make solutions from 500£.

Edited by madsvlund on Friday 25th April 18:48

[GTRene]

well explained, and thx to the picture easier to understand what was meant

[griff 200]

this I believe is a jag 3l with 2.5 manifold in the back of a lotus!! If you find his report on the lotus forums he detailed all the parts used and modifications etc. it may be a sauce of information. Not sure if he quoted hp but I would have thought low 200s with an after market Ecu should be conservative ? Good luck richard.

[griffer500]

Dear experts.

I have a question about putting a newer engine in a 3000M chassis.
I can buy for easy money a Ford BOB engine (V6 Cosworth). Also I can buy a Ford MT75 manual V6 gearbox including the driveshaft, flywheel and pressure plate.

Question: will this gearbox fit on a BOB engine?
ECU will be a DTA or VEMS.

[millwap]

The MT75 won't be a direct fit to the BOB engine without some work. You'll need a "hybrid" MT75 which consists of the bellhousing from a 4wd MT75 and the rest of the box from a 2wd MT75 (or possibly vice versa). Probably best to google for the "fordpower" forum, as the people there have listed all of the information needed to do this, and there's also plenty of advice on the BOB engine too.

From memory, I think that there are a couple of different ratio gearsets within an MT75, depending on the donor vehicle involved. The fordpower forum can suggest which donor/ gearbox version to go for, or which to avoid.

[griffer500]

Many Thanks for the information Paul. I will post my question on the fordpower forum!

[geeeman]

really like the look of this conversion

i wonder about the weight of the Jag v6- did you weigh the engine? Seems like a relatively inexpensive engine to get 200bhp+

[anonymous-user]

geeeman said:

really like the look of this conversion

i wonder about the weight of the Jag v6- did you weigh the engine? Seems like a relatively inexpensive engine to get 200bhp+

Engine may seem cheap.

What priice the mods to - Exhaust, gearbox, clutch, cooling, fuel system, electrical mods, engine mount fabrication, spring rate changes...and costs for labour assuming you cant do it all by yourself?

200 bhp from an essex comes much cheaper

[prideaux]

TVRMs said:

geeeman said:

really like the look of this conversion

i wonder about the weight of the Jag v6- did you weigh the engine? Seems like a relatively inexpensive engine to get 200bhp+

Engine may seem cheap.

What priice the mods to - Exhaust, gearbox, clutch, cooling, fuel system, electrical mods, engine mount fabrication, spring rate changes...and costs for labour assuming you cant do it all by yourself?

200 bhp from an essex comes much cheaper

A

[geeeman]

i believe 200 bhp essex costs about 4k from rik wood, have spoken to him in past about this

looking at some figures this jag v6 may weigh as little as 165 kg with all ancillaries (zetec is 125)
im still leaning towards a more modern engine

the other mods, mostly would need to be done anyway. ie suspension uprate, lsd, brakes etc as my plan was road/track car which would be easier to maintain

[prideaux]

geeeman said:

i believe 200 bhp essex costs about 4k from rik wood, have spoken to him in past about this

looking at some figures this jag v6 may weigh as little as 165 kg with all ancillaries (zetec is 125)
im still leaning towards a more modern engine

the other mods, mostly would need to be done anyway. ie suspension uprate, lsd, brakes etc as my plan was road/track car which would be easier to maintain

Its not the cost of the engine its the cost of changing everything else that adds up IF DONE PROPERLY
A

[geeeman]

but thats what i was saying i have no problem with, as its what i want done anyway

and the essex defo is not the best way to achieve 200 bhp+


i know you're trying your best to put me off Andrew

[prideaux]

geeeman said:

but thats what i was saying i have no problem with, as its what i want done anyway

and the essex defo is not the best way to achieve 200 bhp+


i know you're trying your best to put me off Andrew

Its not so much trying to put you off anyone can upgrade a car in a Kit car fashion but it takes skill and dedication and clever engineering to take what an original car was and make it better retaining what was originally there just improving what was originally there just not a fan of hot Rods from rare sports cars IMOP but each to there own going down the V8 302 route is at least in period and in the spirit of the mark but once you go into modern engines from marks that where not correct to the mark IMOP you loose the spirit of the classic car
A

Edited by prideaux on Friday 12th September 06:01

[geeeman]

if you are worried i would tackle this myslef, be reassured that i always prefer professionals to work on my cars

although a 302 is in theory an engine that was used in period, it is a heavy engine, and im trying to avoid upsetting the weight distribution. For sure a 302 would be 'hot-rodding' a vixen..

The spirit of the car isnt solely determined by the engine, the driving experience is pretty important. a light modern v6 or I4 would be more in keeping with the original vixen design ethos, but with the advantages of a modern reliable unit

(im sure caterham owners dont believe they have lost the spirit of chapmans' 7)

[anonymous-user]

geeeman said:

if you are worried i would tackle this myslef, be reassured that i always prefer professionals to work on my cars

although a 302 is in theory an engine that was used in period, it is a heavy engine, and im trying to avoid upsetting the weight distribution. For sure a 302 would be 'hot-rodding' a vixen..

The spirit of the car isnt solely determined by the engine, the driving experience is pretty important. a light modern v6 or I4 would be more in keeping with the original vixen design ethos, but with the advantages of a modern reliable unit

(im sure caterham owners dont believe they have lost the spirit of chapmans' 7)

I was trying to make the point that the engine change will more costly than the engine itself. All the points I advised were costs associated with the engine change. Brakes, suspension etc will be on top of that again.

302 with alloy heads with a T5 behind it will be lighter than an essex with its 4 speed box BTW

[geeeman]

yes i would easily agree with that