Errr, my bell housing doesnt fit

[Astacus]

Well, I finally got the engine back together, found a couple of mounts that fit (Escort Left hand side in case you are wondering with the 711M engine, rather than RHS as listed) and dropped the engine into the chassis for a trial fit. New clutch etc, mate up the input shaft push it in and presto......

Bell housing starter flange fouls the chassis one side



and clutch slave mounting fouls the chassis the other side



and the whole thing is out by about 10 degrees and it can't turn to match up the bolt holes. Oh and what is this all about



surely the prop shaft splines are supposed to go in further than this?

Anyone got a clue whats going on here. Is the slave mounting supposed to be below the chassis member?

I need a drink now

Help

[heightswitch]

Pics of engine in chassis and mounts please.. And have you installed gearbox mount correctly..From memory the gearbox plate sits on top of the gearbox chassis brackets and the gearbox mount sits on top of that. Many bolt them up to the underside of the chassis brackets...Your engine just looks a bit too low in the chassis to me. Have you bolted your mounts to the engine correctly?
N.

[Astacus]

Thanks Neil,

This shows the way the engine sits in the chassis:







there does seem to be some distortion of the mountings indicating the that engine wants to sit higher, but is dropping under its own weight and distorting the rubber



The gearbox mounting plate is just a plate. Its mounted on top of the brackets and is very slightly thicker than the original (about 1/16). Are there more than one version of the gearbox mount?

I am going to check all the levels later on today.

Edited by Astacus on Saturday 20th July 11:07

[heightswitch]

Engine just looks too low in the chassis from those pics..Try packing the engine mounts out from the block which should lift the mount in the slotted chassis bracket..
I may have an ST vixen pic to show configuration..

Have you got your mounts the correct way around? The mounting of a crossy block in a vixen uses std escort type mounts, not sure what your first post means but in my mind there aren't any mixing sides for vixen applications..what bolts into an escort bolts into a vixen.

I think your mounts are wrong and putting your engine out of alignment.

Also I always slot cut my chassis brackets to make the engine easier to install and packable for height.

I also much prefer the round shrouded donut type mounts to the square isopack type you have, (less shear force exerted on them.)

N.

Edited by heightswitch on Saturday 20th July 11:26

Edited by heightswitch on Saturday 20th July 11:28

Edited by heightswitch on Saturday 20th July 11:30

[Astacus]

Re mounts, I agree with your slotting idea That would certainly help adjustment.

I have two sets of mounts. One set was a standard Escort right hand side mount, as per the parts list, but these are too long for my block. I cant get the engine in at all. I can only think that this is due to the extra width of the 711 at this point. The other set are std escort left hand side mounts, and they seemed to fit just right.

[GAjon]

I'm not familiar with your engine & box, but I think I'd get the engine out, fit the gearbox correctley, bear in mind it's the gearbox bracket that does all the work , then offer the engine to it and see what' needs to be done.

[heightswitch]

Astacus said:

Re mounts, I agree with your slotting idea That would certainly help adjustment.

I have two sets of mounts. One set was a standard Escort right hand side mount, as per the parts list, but these are too long for my block. I cant get the engine in at all. I can only think that this is due to the extra width of the 711 at this point. The other set are std escort left hand side mounts, and they seemed to fit just right.

escort 711 block is the same dimensional size as any other crossflow block to my mind.. I think you need to check and change your mounts, slot cut your chassis brackets so engine drops in from onto easier. It looks as if you have a combination of wrong mounts and a compressed old engine mount letting your engine sink too low.

If you think the engine is square and level then you could make some plates up to sandwich between block and mount face to effectively widen them and hence lift the engine.

The slave cylinder from memory sits well above the lower chassis rail??

N.

[heightswitch]

heightswitch said:

escort 711 block is the same dimensional size as any other crossflow block to my mind.. I think you need to check and change your mounts, slot cut your chassis brackets so engine drops in from onto easier. It looks as if you have a combination of wrong mounts and a compressed old engine mount letting your engine sink too low.

If you think the engine is square and level then you could make some plates up to sandwich between block and mount face to effectively widen them and hence lift the engine.

The slave cylinder from memory sits well above the lower chassis rail??

N.

Looking at some zetec pics which utilise same sort of mounts. R/H mount is larger / longer than L/H mount.

[Cerberus90]

I've got some pics of our 1600M when we were doing the engine if it helps. Might not help much as we've got the starter on the other side and a cable clutch, and obviously, different chassis.

[thegamekeeper]

I am not sure where you get your "listed" from, I assume the source of most misinformation, tinternet. Your series 1 Vixen predates the Ford Escort so probably wouldn,t have parts fitted which hadn,t yet been made.

Ford Cortina Mk2 GT/1600E is the place to look and as Neil said the RHS mount is slightly longer than the LHS. This is to push the starter motor over away from the chassis. The mounting hole on the bellhousing should be above the bottom main chassis rail and the correct engine mounts will obviously move that slightly over to the LHS of the car. The gearbox as is rightly said is mounted with the mounting plate above the chassis and usually you will need to fit 2 or 3 washers under the gearbox mount to achive the correct alignment with the differential. The propshaft looks correctly into the gearbox, as long as the smooth part after the splined section runs in the rear oil seal. Too far in and it can bind in the gearbox putting load on output shaft leading to premature failure.

sTeVeR

A 1600M bears no resemblance

Edited by thegamekeeper on Saturday 20th July 14:23

[Monkeythree]

GAjon said:

I'm not familiar with your engine & box, but I think I'd get the engine out, fit the gearbox correctley, bear in mind it's the gearbox bracket that does all the work , then offer the engine to it and see what' needs to be done.

I agree with this approach. Get your engine out and get the bellhousing and box bolted on then re-install as one unit. Locate the gearbox mount correctly first then you can figure out what's going on with the engine mounts while its dangling from the crane.

Tom

[Cerberus90]

thegamekeeper said:

A 1600M bears no resemblance

Edited by thegamekeeper on Saturday 20th July 14:23

That's what I thought,

[Monkeythree]

Just popped out to the garage to have a look at mine (early S3). The two points where you are fouling the chasis sit comfortably between the chassis tubes on mine. I've got maybe 15mm clearance either side. Height wise, if you took a centreline between the outermost starter motor bolt hole and the clutch slave cylinder hole, this line is more or less on the same centre as the chassis tubes.
Are you sure that your chassis has the correct brackets for a crossflow?
Tom

[heightswitch]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Cortina-Mk2-Escort-...

Check your dimensions, This may be a L/H Mount.

[heightswitch]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESCORT-MK1-MK2XFLOW-HEAV...

These may solve your problem.. You can also buy sleeves to fit over the rubber donut to strengthen further.

You may already have the solution in your garage..Try the long right with the short left and slot cut your chassis brackets!!

N

Edited by heightswitch on Saturday 20th July 22:37

Edited by heightswitch on Saturday 20th July 22:38

[Astacus]

heightswitch said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Cortina-Mk2-Escort-...

Check your dimensions, This may be a L/H Mount.

Many thanks Neil, these are the ones I already had, that were too large. However, if I slot the bracket and raise the engine, then this could fit.

Engine and box are out again now, I might get the chance to slot the mounts tomorrow.

[heightswitch]

Astacus said:

Many thanks Neil, these are the ones I already had, that were too large. However, if I slot the bracket and raise the engine, then this could fit.

Engine and box are out again now, I might get the chance to slot the mounts tomorrow.

Just drill another hole toward top of chassis brackets and join up with angle grinder..makes engine much easier to fit. I am pretty sure that you are using 2 lefts rather than a left and right. My slots are a good 2" long and virtually to top chassis rail. The bigger mount is on drivers side

This is a zetec install but should give you an idea... also note relative centreline of donut to chassis bracket..
Set the engine level in frame and fore / aft then you can phase driveline ( diff flange - gearbox output flange add up to 180 degrees) the pinion flange is off set in a vixen so the prop is angled to left when you look toward rear of car. you can raise or drop tail shaft to bring into phase.

Edited by heightswitch on Saturday 20th July 23:46

Edited by heightswitch on Saturday 20th July 23:50

[Astacus]

thegamekeeper said:

I am not sure where you get your "listed" from, I assume the source of most misinformation, tinternet. Your series 1 Vixen predates the Ford Escort so probably wouldn,t have parts fitted which hadn,t yet been made.

Ford Cortina Mk2 GT/1600E is the place to look and as Neil said the RHS mount is slightly longer than the LHS. This is to push the starter motor over away from the chassis. The mounting hole on the bellhousing should be above the bottom main chassis rail and the correct engine mounts will obviously move that slightly over to the LHS of the car. The gearbox as is rightly said is mounted with the mounting plate above the chassis and usually you will need to fit 2 or 3 washers under the gearbox mount to achive the correct alignment with the differential. The propshaft looks correctly into the gearbox, as long as the smooth part after the splined section runs in the rear oil seal. Too far in and it can bind in the gearbox putting load on output shaft leading to premature failure.

sTeVeR

A 1600M bears no resemblance

Edited by thegamekeeper on Saturday 20th July 14:23

Thanks for the insight Steve. Does this mean that I need one of each Cortina mount?

[thegamekeeper]

Astacus said:

Thanks for the insight Steve. Does this mean that I need one of each Cortina mount?

Yes, you just need a pair of standard Cortina Mk2 1600GT mounts and they will go straight back in where the original ones came out.

Personally I would NOT slot cut the chassis. For the sake of making it slightly easier to fit the engine it also will eventually cause engine judder due to engine torque reaction and ultimately exhaust manifold cracking. Simply mount rhs engine mount to engine and lhs mount loosely onto chassis. Lower engine in, locate rhs one in hole and adjust position of lhs one so you can fit the bolts into the block. Tighten everything up and Robert is your mothers brother.

[phillpot]

heightswitch said:

You can also buy sleeves to fit over the rubber donut to strengthen further.

Where from please ?


Are these them?