TVR Sports Saloons ?? RGS Atlanta
Discussion
[quote=TSP3]Text from the Rochdale Owners Club Magazine - credit Derek Bentley Registrar.
I suppose that in view of the relatively short distance of some 50 miles separating Rochdale from Blackpool
that over the years there would have been some interaction between Rochdale Motor Panels and TVR.
Before TVR produced their own bodies Rochdale Motor Panels were supplying fibreglass sundries to them.
The first entry in the Rochdale Motor Panels ledger appears on 28th June 1955 when 461bs resin,
3oz accelerator, 2 bottles of catalyst and 1 roll of mat were supplied to TVR. Then on 4th July 1955
1 field pack and a further 3oz accelerator were also supplied.
A Type ‘C’ shell was also supplied in July and presumably this is the car that appears not only in
RMP's literature, but also in Peter Filby's TVR book 'Success Against The Odds'.
A Rochdale-bodied TVR chassis awaits completion inside the Beverly Grove workshops.
On 13th September an Type 'F' shell was also supplied, so presumably there were at least two early
TVR chassis clothed with a Rochdale body.
I now know more about the car in the above photo in Peter Filby,s book.
We know at this time TVR did not produce their own bodywork. The TVR chassis was based on Austin A40 running gear, with double wishbone/coil spring front suspension and a live rear axle with leaf springs.
I have a good quality photograph, which has blown up well. First I notice at the rear of the car learning against the wall is a vee shaped windscreen, very similar to the screen fitted to the RSG sports car and TVR fitted 3 RSG bodyshells to the 2nd series TVR chassis and called them the TVR Sports Saloon.
Most 1950s specials would have steel road wheels or bolt on wire wheels as per the running gear manufacture, in this case Austin. If you had money you might have alloy wheels, or as on this car we have an expensive set of oversize knock on wire wheels. Through the front wire wheel I can see a large finned brake drum, certainly not A40. In the cockpit area in the blown up photograph I can see it has a tubular chassis but it also has coilover rear suspension. So not a TVR chassis, maybe a Buckler?
I then contacted John Walkington who has owned a Type-C since new. John told me that when he collected his Type-C bodyshell from Hudson Street in 1955, Harry Smith and Frank Butterworth took him in to a back workshop and showed him the car in this photograph as an example of what his car could look like.
Frank told him it was a Team Car. The car was painted light blue and had a Riley One and a Half Litre engine fitted. John also said the car would have overheated badly as the front grill which is from a three wheeled Bond Minicar was too restrictive for the small radiator air intake duct. So can we identify this car?
The car in the photograph is DEN 275 built for John Horridge complete with leather strap and most of the bars in the Bond Minicar grill cut out to help with engine cooling.
The car still races today and it still has its original DEN 275 buff logbook. But not the original type of engine, or the original type of chassis or the original type of body, but the rest is original? At least they were changed in the 1950,s and with used parts, not made of new parts last week like a lot of historic race cars.
So what about the photograph in Peter Filby,s book, well we now know it has no connection with TVR and was taken in Hudson Street, Rochdale and reproduced as a postcard used by Rochdale Motor Panels as literature, with the background workshop painted out in white. But it goes to show the problems you can have when researching items from years ago for an article or a book, that 4 different people can give you 4 different stories about the same event in time. So as an Archivist you have to take an educate guess at the truth till shown different.
We still have the fact that the RMP sales ledger shows that a Type-C and a Type-F bodyshells were sold to TVR in 1955.
I have recently been in correspondence with a gentleman who now lives in France but used to live in Cheshire and he told me.
“In the summer of 1956 I once drove a TVR which was fitted with a BRG painted Rochdale Type-C body it had a MG 1250cc engine. The car was road registered with a painted on reg number, but I have no idea of the number. I knew it was a TVR because it was badged as a TVR, but not a TVR Grantura type badge.
The car was in the showroom at Station Garage in Wilmslow, Cheshire, the proprietor of which was one, Ken Lee. He happened to be absent when the workshop foreman, Arthur Huck aided and abetted me to take the car round the bypass, up the Alderley road, over the Edge and back to the garage via Mottram St Andrew. The car would be used because it was registered, I don't think it was for sale. just one of those things which was put in the showroom when there is nowhere else to put it. Who owned the car I have no idea, I just remember it because after a diet of 803 Minors, Wolseley 14s, Mk V Jaguars and an Austin Sheerline a real live sports car was a revelation”.
So the Rochdale Type-C bodied/ TVR was in Cheshire in 1956 but does anyone know where is it now? and does anyone know any details about the Rochdale Type-F bodied /TVR?
Regards Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives.
I suppose that in view of the relatively short distance of some 50 miles separating Rochdale from Blackpool
that over the years there would have been some interaction between Rochdale Motor Panels and TVR.
Before TVR produced their own bodies Rochdale Motor Panels were supplying fibreglass sundries to them.
The first entry in the Rochdale Motor Panels ledger appears on 28th June 1955 when 461bs resin,
3oz accelerator, 2 bottles of catalyst and 1 roll of mat were supplied to TVR. Then on 4th July 1955
1 field pack and a further 3oz accelerator were also supplied.
A Type ‘C’ shell was also supplied in July and presumably this is the car that appears not only in
RMP's literature, but also in Peter Filby's TVR book 'Success Against The Odds'.
A Rochdale-bodied TVR chassis awaits completion inside the Beverly Grove workshops.
On 13th September an Type 'F' shell was also supplied, so presumably there were at least two early
TVR chassis clothed with a Rochdale body.
I now know more about the car in the above photo in Peter Filby,s book.
We know at this time TVR did not produce their own bodywork. The TVR chassis was based on Austin A40 running gear, with double wishbone/coil spring front suspension and a live rear axle with leaf springs.
I have a good quality photograph, which has blown up well. First I notice at the rear of the car learning against the wall is a vee shaped windscreen, very similar to the screen fitted to the RSG sports car and TVR fitted 3 RSG bodyshells to the 2nd series TVR chassis and called them the TVR Sports Saloon.
Most 1950s specials would have steel road wheels or bolt on wire wheels as per the running gear manufacture, in this case Austin. If you had money you might have alloy wheels, or as on this car we have an expensive set of oversize knock on wire wheels. Through the front wire wheel I can see a large finned brake drum, certainly not A40. In the cockpit area in the blown up photograph I can see it has a tubular chassis but it also has coilover rear suspension. So not a TVR chassis, maybe a Buckler?
I then contacted John Walkington who has owned a Type-C since new. John told me that when he collected his Type-C bodyshell from Hudson Street in 1955, Harry Smith and Frank Butterworth took him in to a back workshop and showed him the car in this photograph as an example of what his car could look like.
Frank told him it was a Team Car. The car was painted light blue and had a Riley One and a Half Litre engine fitted. John also said the car would have overheated badly as the front grill which is from a three wheeled Bond Minicar was too restrictive for the small radiator air intake duct. So can we identify this car?
The car in the photograph is DEN 275 built for John Horridge complete with leather strap and most of the bars in the Bond Minicar grill cut out to help with engine cooling.
The car still races today and it still has its original DEN 275 buff logbook. But not the original type of engine, or the original type of chassis or the original type of body, but the rest is original? At least they were changed in the 1950,s and with used parts, not made of new parts last week like a lot of historic race cars.
So what about the photograph in Peter Filby,s book, well we now know it has no connection with TVR and was taken in Hudson Street, Rochdale and reproduced as a postcard used by Rochdale Motor Panels as literature, with the background workshop painted out in white. But it goes to show the problems you can have when researching items from years ago for an article or a book, that 4 different people can give you 4 different stories about the same event in time. So as an Archivist you have to take an educate guess at the truth till shown different.
We still have the fact that the RMP sales ledger shows that a Type-C and a Type-F bodyshells were sold to TVR in 1955.
I have recently been in correspondence with a gentleman who now lives in France but used to live in Cheshire and he told me.
“In the summer of 1956 I once drove a TVR which was fitted with a BRG painted Rochdale Type-C body it had a MG 1250cc engine. The car was road registered with a painted on reg number, but I have no idea of the number. I knew it was a TVR because it was badged as a TVR, but not a TVR Grantura type badge.
The car was in the showroom at Station Garage in Wilmslow, Cheshire, the proprietor of which was one, Ken Lee. He happened to be absent when the workshop foreman, Arthur Huck aided and abetted me to take the car round the bypass, up the Alderley road, over the Edge and back to the garage via Mottram St Andrew. The car would be used because it was registered, I don't think it was for sale. just one of those things which was put in the showroom when there is nowhere else to put it. Who owned the car I have no idea, I just remember it because after a diet of 803 Minors, Wolseley 14s, Mk V Jaguars and an Austin Sheerline a real live sports car was a revelation”.
So the Rochdale Type-C bodied/ TVR was in Cheshire in 1956 but does anyone know where is it now? and does anyone know any details about the Rochdale Type-F bodied /TVR?
Regards Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives.
Edited by TSP3 on Saturday 16th April 08:18
Lots of Sports Racing Cars in the 1950s had the rear of the front wheel arches scooped out and back, not just the Aston Martin. The Rochdale Type-C bodyshell is a copy of a Connaught ASLR.
The aluminium bodied John Coombs /Les Leston's Connaught ASLR which was damaged in May 1955 at Aintree a nearby race meeting to Rochdale and was taken to Rochdale Motor Panels for repair, and while been repaired they took a moulding from it and sold shells from the mould as the Type-C.
This is the Les Leston car that the Rochdale Type-C bodyshell was moulded from.
Regards Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives.
The aluminium bodied John Coombs /Les Leston's Connaught ASLR which was damaged in May 1955 at Aintree a nearby race meeting to Rochdale and was taken to Rochdale Motor Panels for repair, and while been repaired they took a moulding from it and sold shells from the mould as the Type-C.
This is the Les Leston car that the Rochdale Type-C bodyshell was moulded from.
Regards Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives.
Edited by TSP3 on Saturday 19th July 15:05
Fascinating stuff, well done on your painstaking research. Nothing is ever simple in the early world of TVR, but I hope you find (some of) the answers you are looking for. I still feel that, if there was an RGS or Rochdale bodied TVR still in existence, we would have heard of it by now but there is always hope.
Oliver.
Oliver.
prideaux said:
Yes at least one but not a TVR Chassis but a nice car
A
Yes that is myself and “Duffy” at the pumping station in 2012. A
The reason I was there was not only the connection between TVR and Rochdale Motor Panels, but in the late 1960s to early 1970s I worked with Mike Bigland in Halesowen, West Midlands where we were TVR Agents.
We built and ran the Mod-Sports TVR for Richard Taft.
We also, that is Mike Bigland, Alan Broadway and myself developed the TVR “M Series” from drawing board to production in less than 12 months.
Sorry about the quality of these 2 photos but they are screenshots from a cine-film taken late in the afternoon on a winters day in 1972. Mike and I had just got back to Halesowen from MIRA where we had crash tested the TVR 2500M. You can just see me standing by the O/S/F wheel of the crash car and that is the Mod-Sports TVR in the background with 60 on the door. In the 2nd photo the Brown TVR is the “M Series” development car, not many photos exist of this car.
This photo is of my TVR 1800 I owned in the late 1960s, is it still around?
Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives
TSP3 said:
Yes that is myself and “Duffy” at the pumping station in 2012.
The reason I was there was not only the connection between TVR and Rochdale Motor Panels, but in the late 1960s to early 1970s I worked with Mike Bigland in Halesowen, West Midlands where we were TVR Agents.
We built and ran the Mod-Sports TVR for Richard Taft.
We also, that is Mike Bigland, Alan Broadway and myself developed the TVR “M Series” from drawing board to production in less than 12 months.
Sorry about the quality of these 2 photos but they are screenshots from a cine-film taken late in the afternoon on a winters day in 1972. Mike and I had just got back to Halesowen from MIRA where we had crash tested the TVR 2500M. You can just see me standing by the O/S/F wheel of the crash car and that is the Mod-Sports TVR in the background with 60 on the door. In the 2nd photo the Brown TVR is the “M Series” development car, not many photos exist of this car.
This photo is of my TVR 1800 I owned in the late 1960s, is it still around?
Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives
The M development car is very interesting..Bonnet and other details makes it look like a tuscan wide body So I am assuming this is what was used as a mule. 24 are purported to exist but only 7 actual cars accounted forThe reason I was there was not only the connection between TVR and Rochdale Motor Panels, but in the late 1960s to early 1970s I worked with Mike Bigland in Halesowen, West Midlands where we were TVR Agents.
We built and ran the Mod-Sports TVR for Richard Taft.
We also, that is Mike Bigland, Alan Broadway and myself developed the TVR “M Series” from drawing board to production in less than 12 months.
Sorry about the quality of these 2 photos but they are screenshots from a cine-film taken late in the afternoon on a winters day in 1972. Mike and I had just got back to Halesowen from MIRA where we had crash tested the TVR 2500M. You can just see me standing by the O/S/F wheel of the crash car and that is the Mod-Sports TVR in the background with 60 on the door. In the 2nd photo the Brown TVR is the “M Series” development car, not many photos exist of this car.
This photo is of my TVR 1800 I owned in the late 1960s, is it still around?
Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives
fantastic photos from a very productive era in TVR motorsport history. The loss of Brian Hough at Kimpton in the ex taft car was a tragedy.
I have an old 1964 car mag with a back to back test of an olympic versus a Grantura. The Olympic at the time was considered a better all round car. Love your olympic in the photos.
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Sunday 20th July 14:00
oliverb205 said:
Just what I was going to comment on, certainly a wide bodied Tuscan bonnet on the M series prototype. It would be interesting to know if any were raped to become prototype Ms.
Oliver.
well 24 were accounted but only 7 are known of so a good few either were never made or something else happened ??Oliver.
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 21st July 21:26
Adrian@ said:
SOOO...am I right in thinking that out there somewhere is a wide body Tuscan, WITH an M Series chassis?
Adrian@
All things considered an evolution car is the way of TVR of old.
Maybe more than one??Adrian@
All things considered an evolution car is the way of TVR of old.
there was reputed to be a wide body in the North east / Consett way at one point apparently ??
N.
luckycarter said:
Adrian, Didnt the W/B Tuscan from Norway that you worked on some years back have a lot of M series stuff on it ?
If I could put the two of these cars together as the same, I would, but I need more than just a passing comment to do this. I went through the car looking for clues to it's identity (we all, or we all should know that) in build, associated numbers to the chassis plate got written on the separate trim/dash panels etc. (in the 90's things like 'show car','prototype', press car' and all kinds of misc. rubbish got added), these can, and do, give clues... that car had nothing! it was too clinical a removal, IF all the numbers had been removed. BUT, this car had nothing on it to give me any clues. It does not help that the car is Blue now (rather than Brown as quoted), but, it still has some lovely touches, the 'essence' of a 'Wide bodied Tuscan' in an M Series. Adrian@
Hi Richard, nothing in what I say will be new/news to you ...I am just chuntering on for the reading PHer.
BUT wouldn't it be nice to find such a 'special'!! and give Henry the pointer for where to start looking for the cars history.
Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 22 July 20:50
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