piper 270/2 cam V6

piper 270/2 cam V6

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Discussion

bluezeeland

1,965 posts

158 months

Saturday 9th August 2014
quotequote all
Evening Alan,

Thank you, sir, nice car, good colour too ! (Genuinely like silver on a 3000S)

What is the state of the chassis, read the interior needs some tlc, after all you paid a very good price for it ?

My 3000s with stages II, hot cam and some other goodies has 184 bhp (DIN wink )if that is anything to go by .........

enjoy Brittany !

Frank


plasticpig72

Original Poster:

1,647 posts

148 months

Saturday 9th August 2014
quotequote all
hi Frank,
i take it your car is silver also!!!
the Inside is not so bad


bluezeeland

1,965 posts

158 months

Saturday 9th August 2014
quotequote all
Hi Alan,

Interior looking good !

You must be very happy in purchasing this 3000S, from what I've read she's really good, engine/paint/interior all good, and at a good price, happy days !

Mine's not silver, but Vauxhall blue (shade darker/greener than mediterrean), see profile...
She's just completed a 2500 kms trip round the UK, without so much as a stutter !

greetings

Frank

plasticpig72

Original Poster:

1,647 posts

148 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Adrian,
the Weber 40 DFI carb was part of the Ford X pack option

Adrian@

4,289 posts

281 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
plasticpig72 said:
Adrian,
the Weber 40 DFI carb was part of the Ford X pack option
Sadly, quoting 'Ford X pack' does not give the carb the ability to magically have the dynamic range to make it a good road carb...and it is possible to bore a 38 DGAS out AND adjust it to be so much better than a 40 DFI.
It works fine as a point and squirt, throw air/fuel down into the engine carb, BUT, I have had 3 customers 'lose' engines on high speed runs with engines running lean.
Adrian@

heightswitch

6,316 posts

249 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
Sadly, quoting 'Ford X pack' does not give the carb the ability to magically have the dynamic range to make it a good road carb...and it is possible to bore a 38 DGAS out AND adjust it to be so much better than a 40 DFI.
It works fine as a point and squirt, throw air/fuel down into the engine carb, BUT, I have had 3 customers 'lose' engines on high speed runs with engines running lean.
Adrian@
As an x pack option the carb was originally designed around the old homologation rules for 3 ltr production saloons and capri racing…The carb as Adrian alludes is known to chuck buckets of fuel into the engine and will make a road engine, especially on std heads run extremely rich. (Part throttle) It is known to create bore wash issues and cause accelerated wear in the engine as well as give very poor emissions. You would be better of with a tweaked 38DGAS. I am assuming lean running Adrian alludes to would be on a road fuelled engine running a mechanical fuel pump at high RPM.

N.

Edited by heightswitch on Monday 11th August 08:04

DavidY

4,458 posts

283 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
OK I'll chip in here, late to the party, but I had a Taimar with a 40DFI, high compression pistons, bigger valves and a wilder Kent cam (can't remember if it was a V62 or V63, but V62 sounds likely). I also had a one-off K&N air filter designed to breathe to 235bhp.

The 40DFI likes a drink, as Adrian says it has to be set up rich so as not to run lean, and therefore has a drink issue. Mine would overfuel at low RPM, so as not to run lean at high RPM, this could lead to impressive flames from both the exhaust and on a couple of occasions the bonnet vent!!! (in the case of the latter always put your foot down to suck the fire through the engine!!!)

The TVR installation of the Essex engine has a couple of limitations, namely the exhaust manifold system and the air filter, fix both and you will be looking at around 200bhp at the flywheel, don't fix them and you will restrict yourself to something in the 160-180bhp region. Get it to breathe right and you will have a powerful engine.

But as mentioned before it will have a drink problem, once fully set up mine would do mpg in the range of 6 (track days!!) to 22 light road use, whereas with a stand engine on a 38DGAS you will see 27+ on a long run.

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
DavidY said:
OK I'll chip in here, late to the party, but I had a Taimar with a 40DFI, high compression pistons, bigger valves and a wilder Kent cam (can't remember if it was a V62 or V63, but V62 sounds likely). I also had a one-off K&N air filter designed to breathe to 235bhp.

The 40DFI likes a drink, as Adrian says it has to be set up rich so as not to run lean, and therefore has a drink issue. Mine would overfuel at low RPM, so as not to run lean at high RPM, this could lead to impressive flames from both the exhaust and on a couple of occasions the bonnet vent!!! (in the case of the latter always put your foot down to suck the fire through the engine!!!)

The TVR installation of the Essex engine has a couple of limitations, namely the exhaust manifold system and the air filter, fix both and you will be looking at around 200bhp at the flywheel, don't fix them and you will restrict yourself to something in the 160-180bhp region. Get it to breathe right and you will have a powerful engine.

But as mentioned before it will have a drink problem, once fully set up mine would do mpg in the range of 6 (track days!!) to 22 light road use, whereas with a stand engine on a 38DGAS you will see 27+ on a long run.
Cheers for that David does sound rather scary that would shock the old lady at the zebra crossing hehe
A

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
plasticpig72 said:
Looking great and everthing matches even the OE Seats fantastic
A

DavidY

4,458 posts

283 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
heightswitch said:
as well as give very poor emissions
Missed this bit earlier, yes absolutely, without adjustment my engine went off the end of the scale on the MOT mans hydrocarbon meter, yes you could adjust it to pass, but as the MOT man used to say "You are only going to adjust it back when you leave, so as long as it comes down as the revs increase, I'll pass it!!" (Obviously in today's world with computerised records this can't be done!!!

Not as bad though as trying to do the handbrake and rear brake tests, my car was so low at the back with the GAjon style exhaust system, the rear wheels wouldn't actually sit clean in the rollers, as the exhaust was grounding out, he couldn't do those tests!!!

What with the flames as well, my car was great, used to disappear down the road in a hail of sparks from all the skid plates!!! I'm sure these days the MOT man is a little stricter!!!

plasticpig72

Original Poster:

1,647 posts

148 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all

hi Andrew, here's a shot of the seats OE but very dirty.
Imho i find it very strange and difficult to understand that Ford with their megga resouces got it wrong with the X Pack and the Weber 40 DFI

Adrian@

4,289 posts

281 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
The 40 was doing a fine job for the Capri racing boys 40 years ago (when petrol was cheap and there was ZERO ignition control) the want for power over the need to run a sensible fuel strategy was their priority.
Adrian@

heightswitch

6,316 posts

249 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
The 40 was doing a fine job for the Capri racing boys 40 years ago (when petrol was cheap and there was ZERO ignition control) the want for power over the need to run a sensible fuel strategy was their priority.
Adrian@
its similar to the Cosworth RS 500…Bigger Turbo and a 5th injector on additional fuel rail made a slower horrible car to drive in std trim….It made for a very potent ford racing car though in the day…Building limited cars to homologation to win races doesn't happen much these days..back in the day though!!!…happy days.

N.

heightswitch

6,316 posts

249 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
The 40 was doing a fine job for the Capri racing boys 40 years ago (when petrol was cheap and there was ZERO ignition control) the want for power over the need to run a sensible fuel strategy was their priority.
Adrian@
its similar to the Cosworth RS 500…Bigger Turbo and a 5th injector on additional fuel rail made a slower horrible car to drive in std trim….It made for a very potent ford racing car though in the day…Building limited cars to homologation to win races doesn't happen much these days..back in the day though!!!…happy days.

N.

plasticpig72

Original Poster:

1,647 posts

148 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Adrian,
i agree with you, so what is the best set up with a piper 270/2 cam with a weber 40 DFI or is it better to change the carb

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
plasticpig72 said:

hi Andrew, here's a shot of the seats OE but very dirty.
Imho i find it very strange and difficult to understand that Ford with their megga resouces got it wrong with the X Pack and the Weber 40 DFI
A good steam clean and you may be ok although dont be tempted to do a partial re trim it does not usually work either clean and enjoy the patina of age a car is only original once in its life or do a quality re trim.
We managed to achieve it on the Taimar but only because the rest was so good with just a small amount of patina which is nice.

Regards the 38dg engineered to 40dg j can really say go for it we got 200bhp at the flywheel cam i cant remember would need to check the file which my brother now has but David y is right they are a great engine i just dont fanc flames out the side hehe
A

heightswitch

6,316 posts

249 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
prideaux said:
A good steam clean and you may be ok although dont be tempted to do a partial re trim it does not usually work either clean and enjoy the patina of age a car is only original once in its life or do a quality re trim.
We managed to achieve it on the Taimar but only because the rest was so good with just a small amount of patina which is nice.

Regards the 38dg engineered to 40dg j can really say go for it we got 200bhp at the flywheel cam i cant remember would need to check the file which my brother now has but David y is right they are a great engine i just dont fanc flames out the side hehe
A
Vaporetto…Good bit of kit.
N.

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
heightswitch said:
prideaux said:
A good steam clean and you may be ok although dont be tempted to do a partial re trim it does not usually work either clean and enjoy the patina of age a car is only original once in its life or do a quality re trim.
We managed to achieve it on the Taimar but only because the rest was so good with just a small amount of patina which is nice.

Regards the 38dg engineered to 40dg j can really say go for it we got 200bhp at the flywheel cam i cant remember would need to check the file which my brother now has but David y is right they are a great engine i just dont fanc flames out the side hehe
A
Vaporetto…Good bit of kit.
N.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Polti-Vaporetto-Comfort-Steam-Cleaner/dp/B0052KGI5O/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

bluezeeland

1,965 posts

158 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
The full designation of the cam is Piper V630BP270/2, a fast road cam, stage II, possibly the heads could be stages II as well ?
The tech data on it does not appear to be all that different from a V63 Kent ? (Adrian, please comment ?)

From the above a 38DG could be used (with a bit of rejetting/open air filter)

Please report your findings/decisions......

Adrian@

4,289 posts

281 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
I would not be running the Piper ...I would want the cam to be a little racer-er.
RE the Piper combined with roller rockers ..it is not well thought out (I am unsure what benefit they are giving on the calm cam...where is the need) but they in there now.
38 bored out every time for me, Lambda port to read the fuel and at least that way I can adjust all the range.
Adrian@
Frank, what did you go for in the end ..remind us.

Edited by Adrian@ on Monday 11th August 21:48