Anyone own my old Grantura?
Discussion
ayup said:
Hiya I'm just posting through my daughters login, it's Trevor from staffs, yes I'm still running 688GFR, badge is still looking good! Thanks again. Glad your getting response in relation to your old car.
It runs in the family my daughter runs a chimaera 450, so we may bump it you again some day,
All the best Trev.
Great to hear that you still have the car, I saw it just the once at Oulton Park October 1989 and have often wondered who owned it. It runs in the family my daughter runs a chimaera 450, so we may bump it you again some day,
All the best Trev.
Oliver.
PS. I will repost this and one of the rear on the photos thread.
As I recall, rack & pinion was ONLY fitted on Climax engine cars. The homologation sheet does not allow for it on either Ford or B type fitted cars.
The car in Italy which I mentioned was built for Don Kaas and was endowed with a chassis number "guessed" from cars of which the whereabouts were unknown B/139 was picked at random (not by me)and has been arbitrarily changed in Italy to C/139 to allow a cheat on homologation
The car in Italy which I mentioned was built for Don Kaas and was endowed with a chassis number "guessed" from cars of which the whereabouts were unknown B/139 was picked at random (not by me)and has been arbitrarily changed in Italy to C/139 to allow a cheat on homologation
TDL933 said:
As I recall, rack & pinion was ONLY fitted on Climax engine cars. The homologation sheet does not allow for it on either Ford or B type fitted cars.
The car in Italy which I mentioned was built for Don Kaas and was endowed with a chassis number "guessed" from cars of which the whereabouts were unknown B/139 was picked at random (not by me)and has been arbitrarily changed in Italy to C/139 to allow a cheat on homologation
So the original car had lost its plate?The car in Italy which I mentioned was built for Don Kaas and was endowed with a chassis number "guessed" from cars of which the whereabouts were unknown B/139 was picked at random (not by me)and has been arbitrarily changed in Italy to C/139 to allow a cheat on homologation
TDL933 said:
As I recall, rack & pinion was ONLY fitted on Climax engine cars. The homologation sheet does not allow for it on either Ford or B type fitted cars.
The car in Italy which I mentioned was built for Don Kaas and was endowed with a chassis number "guessed" from cars of which the whereabouts were unknown B/139 was picked at random (not by me)and has been arbitrarily changed in Italy to C/139 to allow a cheat on homologation
Sounds interesting.The car in Italy which I mentioned was built for Don Kaas and was endowed with a chassis number "guessed" from cars of which the whereabouts were unknown B/139 was picked at random (not by me)and has been arbitrarily changed in Italy to C/139 to allow a cheat on homologation
What homologation paper/sheet is it? I only do have documents talking about MG engines and worm and peg steering. Is there a document talking about other engines like coventry climax and rack and pinion steering etc.? From where can I get a copy?
K.W.
That fits, to the extent that 'my' car had rack and pinion and had originally had a climax engine (which, regrettably, was no longer in the car when I got it). It also had the lightened webs on the chassis. But that still doesnt link it, in my mind, to the later 'coffee bean'. I still haven't seen any photographic, descriptive or documentary evidence that would make a firm connection.
If information, gleaned from the various people who have been good enough to take an interest, is correct; can we assume that climax engined cars had rack and pinion steering, 'wobbly wheels' and 'lightened' chassis? If so, how many climax engined Mk1's were produced? At the time TVR was very small, wouldnt it be reasonable to assume they were all signed off by the same man, so the ref to the 'builder' of the car is probably not distinctive.
The registrations are different and it appears both had their registrations while racing. (I was credited in an earlier post with putting the car on the road, but it was registered, with documentation, when I got it although it had been off the road in practice for some time).
Of those X cars mine appears to have been one, and 'coffee bean 2' another.
If information, gleaned from the various people who have been good enough to take an interest, is correct; can we assume that climax engined cars had rack and pinion steering, 'wobbly wheels' and 'lightened' chassis? If so, how many climax engined Mk1's were produced? At the time TVR was very small, wouldnt it be reasonable to assume they were all signed off by the same man, so the ref to the 'builder' of the car is probably not distinctive.
The registrations are different and it appears both had their registrations while racing. (I was credited in an earlier post with putting the car on the road, but it was registered, with documentation, when I got it although it had been off the road in practice for some time).
Of those X cars mine appears to have been one, and 'coffee bean 2' another.
Mk1&2 are ONLY homologated with MG engines (I have a copy of the papers) which is why the MSA looked askance at the rack & pinion fitted. As I mentioned earlier I could probably have persuaded them of the unobtainability of LHD 100E Ford Prefect steering boxes but there was so much else to change it was not worth it. It does make me spit that because of the crookery allowed in other countries somebody can now run an illegal car and wave a passport that says it meets homologation requirements.
And yes there was apparently no plate with the car so the builder who was well known for smoke and mirrors invented a history, and it got a US passport followed by a Canadian, that lapsed with the introduction of the latest rules.
The Eyties of course, take no notice of the rules (unless of course it is a Ferrari and then woe betide anybody who tries anything faked).
Incidentally, I have an idea that Mk 1s could possibly be eligible for international events as I found an entry and photographic evidence of one running at an Aintree International meeting.
And yes there was apparently no plate with the car so the builder who was well known for smoke and mirrors invented a history, and it got a US passport followed by a Canadian, that lapsed with the introduction of the latest rules.
The Eyties of course, take no notice of the rules (unless of course it is a Ferrari and then woe betide anybody who tries anything faked).
Incidentally, I have an idea that Mk 1s could possibly be eligible for international events as I found an entry and photographic evidence of one running at an Aintree International meeting.
Thanks for the help so far guys. I will be going to the TVR stand at the NEC. Just thought one of you guys might like this item on ebay: Rare to see copy of ;'Success against the odds'
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301372191581?_trksid=p20...
I'd love to but we old pensioners need to keep the money for the car.
Wouldnt mind a copy of pages relevant for me if the purchaser wouldnt mind.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301372191581?_trksid=p20...
I'd love to but we old pensioners need to keep the money for the car.
Wouldnt mind a copy of pages relevant for me if the purchaser wouldnt mind.
Very grateful for that kind offer alphaone. Only a couple of hours ago I received a similar offer direct (and accepted it). Great to know there are so many TVR guys out there prepared to help. Thanks again.
All we need to do know is to find the cash to bring 'my' car back where she belongs!
All we need to do know is to find the cash to bring 'my' car back where she belongs!
In my research I've come across LSN 950 competing at Rest and Be Thankful hillclimb in 1960.
Bill Henderson took a film of the meeting and LSN 950 was entered and ran as No. 40. This is interesting as this is the meeting where Coffee Bean was crashed. Not 1959 as stated in Filby's book. In 1959 Averil Scott Moncreiff was entered in the Ex Stirling Moss Empire Trophy winning Cooper Climax.
In 1960 4 TVR's were entered. 3 by the Hillhead Automobile Company Racing Team and one by Norman Barclay (Olympic Bobsleigh Team). The drivers for the Hillhead team were Bill Mackay (Ecurie Ecosse Driver), Balfour Rombach and J ( Joseph) Baird. Im not sure which cars they were all in yet but Graham Gauld (Scottish Motor Racing Historian) has reported that Bill Mackay was driving and crashed Coffee Bean. He apparently crashed after the stone bridge when an electron wheel collapsed. This is Graham's photo I've asked about Copyright but have no answer yet. So may have to remove it.
As stared Coffee Bean was registered 4040 RE and didn't crash in 1959 so I assume that this is still Coffee Bean 1. LSN 950 is one if the other cars. I don't think it is Norman Barclay's as the car was for sale in early 1961 and was still unregistered. So LSN 950 could be driven by either Balfour Rombach or J Baird. I have a identified a source for the Hillhead cars and will report back if it provides info. Norman Barclays car is very interesting as it had a F2 FPF Climax engine.
I hope to obtain a photo of the still of no40 to see if that helps with the identification. Also if anyone has the programme for Rest and be thankful 1960 we should be able to see who was driving each car.
So LSN 950 is an interesting car but as suspected probably not Coffee Bean.
Copyright Graham Gauld.
Rob
Bill Henderson took a film of the meeting and LSN 950 was entered and ran as No. 40. This is interesting as this is the meeting where Coffee Bean was crashed. Not 1959 as stated in Filby's book. In 1959 Averil Scott Moncreiff was entered in the Ex Stirling Moss Empire Trophy winning Cooper Climax.
In 1960 4 TVR's were entered. 3 by the Hillhead Automobile Company Racing Team and one by Norman Barclay (Olympic Bobsleigh Team). The drivers for the Hillhead team were Bill Mackay (Ecurie Ecosse Driver), Balfour Rombach and J ( Joseph) Baird. Im not sure which cars they were all in yet but Graham Gauld (Scottish Motor Racing Historian) has reported that Bill Mackay was driving and crashed Coffee Bean. He apparently crashed after the stone bridge when an electron wheel collapsed. This is Graham's photo I've asked about Copyright but have no answer yet. So may have to remove it.
As stared Coffee Bean was registered 4040 RE and didn't crash in 1959 so I assume that this is still Coffee Bean 1. LSN 950 is one if the other cars. I don't think it is Norman Barclay's as the car was for sale in early 1961 and was still unregistered. So LSN 950 could be driven by either Balfour Rombach or J Baird. I have a identified a source for the Hillhead cars and will report back if it provides info. Norman Barclays car is very interesting as it had a F2 FPF Climax engine.
I hope to obtain a photo of the still of no40 to see if that helps with the identification. Also if anyone has the programme for Rest and be thankful 1960 we should be able to see who was driving each car.
So LSN 950 is an interesting car but as suspected probably not Coffee Bean.
Copyright Graham Gauld.
Rob
Edited by RobMk2a on Friday 5th June 12:22
Fascinating Rob, thank you very much for that.
So frustrating that I didnt know all this and didnt keep it. I had always understood that 'my' car started life with a Climax engine, but I cannot remember where that info came from. There was evidence of mods having been made at one time to carry the exhaust down the offside which, I think, would be consistent with a Climax engine would it not? I did take it to TVR early in my ownership for help on one component, I was well received despite the car being in a bit of a tatty state at the time. I distinctly remember someone commenting that the wheels were worth more than the car but the true significance of that was lost on me at the time.
I am certain in my own mind that we can rule out Coffee Bean, I took it back to bare grp in several places and it would have shown.
All I can tell you about the purchase that it was from someone on the north side of Liverpool, not very helpful I am afraid. It was a non runner at the time so we towed it back and I can remember the seat was far too far back for me so I would assume the previous driver was a good deal taller than my 5'6", then most people are!! At the time the Riley engine was in but not running. My ex wife does recall there were tags on string round the gearlever which presumably were the remains of scrutineers tags.
At the time I had a small involvement with motor racing at Aintree so I might have heard about the car from there, but that could be a 'red herring'. At that time I was living in West Lancashire and commuting to Liverpool every day.
I do hope you find out more.
So frustrating that I didnt know all this and didnt keep it. I had always understood that 'my' car started life with a Climax engine, but I cannot remember where that info came from. There was evidence of mods having been made at one time to carry the exhaust down the offside which, I think, would be consistent with a Climax engine would it not? I did take it to TVR early in my ownership for help on one component, I was well received despite the car being in a bit of a tatty state at the time. I distinctly remember someone commenting that the wheels were worth more than the car but the true significance of that was lost on me at the time.
I am certain in my own mind that we can rule out Coffee Bean, I took it back to bare grp in several places and it would have shown.
All I can tell you about the purchase that it was from someone on the north side of Liverpool, not very helpful I am afraid. It was a non runner at the time so we towed it back and I can remember the seat was far too far back for me so I would assume the previous driver was a good deal taller than my 5'6", then most people are!! At the time the Riley engine was in but not running. My ex wife does recall there were tags on string round the gearlever which presumably were the remains of scrutineers tags.
At the time I had a small involvement with motor racing at Aintree so I might have heard about the car from there, but that could be a 'red herring'. At that time I was living in West Lancashire and commuting to Liverpool every day.
I do hope you find out more.
We Probably shouldn't rule out Norman Barclay's car as Dumbarton is half way between Glasgow and his house in Helensburgh. So it would be easy to stop off at the post office to register the car.
I've contacted Henderson again to see if they will sell me a picture of the car at Rest and be thankful.
Any ideas how to find a programme of the event Scottish Archive?
Rob
I've contacted Henderson again to see if they will sell me a picture of the car at Rest and be thankful.
Any ideas how to find a programme of the event Scottish Archive?
Rob
I've know spoken Bill Mackay (Ecurie Ecosse driver) who has been very helpful and confirmed he was driving Coffee Bean when it crashed. He said the car was very fast but the hard suspension was unsuitable for the Rest and be thankful hillclimb which was almost a farm track. He believes the report of the collapsed Electron Wheel may have been his excuse as he still remembers having to tell the owner (Scott Moncreiff) that he had wrecked the car.
Whilst it's over 50 years ago I sent a photo of LSN 950 and he has confirmed that It was not Coffee Bean and it now seems very likely that it is Norman Barclay's car with the 1,500 cc F2 Twin cam Climax engine. The other TVR entered on that day was a standard Mk1 shared by Joseph Baird and Balfour Rombach.
Rob
Whilst it's over 50 years ago I sent a photo of LSN 950 and he has confirmed that It was not Coffee Bean and it now seems very likely that it is Norman Barclay's car with the 1,500 cc F2 Twin cam Climax engine. The other TVR entered on that day was a standard Mk1 shared by Joseph Baird and Balfour Rombach.
Rob
I've not asked that specific question. I imagine Bunty took the damaged car home. Klaus said above he bought parts of a wrecked Grantura possibly from Leek. I guess the parts could be from Coffee Bean.
Bill Mackay was working for Hillhead Automobile Company, who were TVR and Austin Healey agents. One of the directors John Hutton Shields borrowed the car from Bunty. It seems unlikely that Bill had any further involvement as he was racing the next day at Charterhall in the Ecurie Ecosse D Type (with a broken nose!).
Bill didn't race a TVR again after that outing, his motor racing career also ended after a serious crash in an AH Sprite at Le Mans in 1961.
Rob
Bill Mackay was working for Hillhead Automobile Company, who were TVR and Austin Healey agents. One of the directors John Hutton Shields borrowed the car from Bunty. It seems unlikely that Bill had any further involvement as he was racing the next day at Charterhall in the Ecurie Ecosse D Type (with a broken nose!).
Bill didn't race a TVR again after that outing, his motor racing career also ended after a serious crash in an AH Sprite at Le Mans in 1961.
Rob
I am looking for up to date information on Balfour Rombach who was connected with Hillhead Motors in Glasgow and was an agent for TVR and other makes. His partners(?) were Billy Mackay and Joseph Baird. I was a close friend of Balfour in our teens ('50s/60s) and once (terrifyingly) drove one of his TVRs through the streets of Glasgow. I emigrated to Rhodesia and lost touch with Balfour apart from a brief reunion in 1977.
I am aware of his (checkered) history up to that point but would like to know what became of him thereafter and if indeed he is still alive. I live in Spain and can be contacted by email at gilbert@spain.cc
Raoul Gilbert
I am aware of his (checkered) history up to that point but would like to know what became of him thereafter and if indeed he is still alive. I live in Spain and can be contacted by email at gilbert@spain.cc
Raoul Gilbert
Hi,
I spoke to Bill Mackay about 2 years ago he runs a yacht chapter business in Scotland, he may know about Balfour however I got the impressive he may not have been in touch since the Hillhead days / court case.
If you know more about Balfour and Hillhead I would love to find out more info. The section in Filby's book about Rest and be thankful is incorrect.
Rob Robpennington64@outlook.com (not the email on pistonheads).
I spoke to Bill Mackay about 2 years ago he runs a yacht chapter business in Scotland, he may know about Balfour however I got the impressive he may not have been in touch since the Hillhead days / court case.
If you know more about Balfour and Hillhead I would love to find out more info. The section in Filby's book about Rest and be thankful is incorrect.
Rob Robpennington64@outlook.com (not the email on pistonheads).
Hi chaps, during my 12 years of Grantura ownership (sold in 2003) I was an active contributor to "Sprint". That included a very comprehensive register of chassis numbers/registrations, which I put together over several years, and which were published over several successive issues of the magazine. I cannot recall the date of publication, but it was certainly pre- the data protection era. I still have that info in a Word document, last updated in 2002. PM me and I can send you a copy.
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