NEC The Classic SURPRISE of the Year
Discussion
V8 GRF said:
I'm sure those are the same folk are the ones who always stand on the sidelines shouting their 'opinions' and criticise others while making no effort themselves. If they think they can do better they know what to do........ ah but of course they'll be too 'busy' won't they?
You can't please everyone and by the nature of a show such as this with limited space cars that folk think should be there won't be.
While I quoted you John I was making general observations about 'opinions' and attitudes.
David.You can't please everyone and by the nature of a show such as this with limited space cars that folk think should be there won't be.
While I quoted you John I was making general observations about 'opinions' and attitudes.
I am not a member of the club anymore I came back after a gap of 4 years, realised that the topics on the club forum were still on the same page and so I let my membership lapse again..!!
In all Honesty some of the reasons I had for dropping out were as a result of the one size must fit all, we must compromise, we can't please all people all of the time type attitude that the club in my opinion began to exhibit.. The last time I looked it was evident that the club expended a very large proportion of the club subs to host the stand with the justification that the cost was worth it so as to promote the marque. The stand at the NEC was very slick but the cars on the stand were not a good representation of the standard of cars required to promote the marque. I say that with no disrespect meant to the club members who did take the time out to exhibit and in no way would want them to feel that my comments are critical of the cars per-say BUT! Whilst the stand, banners, carpeting etc was very slick the cars did not seem to have a flow, theme, point, call it what you will….It seems to me that the club is more interested in being the type of club which has become a commercial operation deft in its pursuit of the average Joes subscription fee…Than the club of old.
Yes things do change but you should consider 1 very important aspect…There is only 1 large TVR club which in theory has a captive market..There are a finite number of TVR owners and regretfully this number isn't going to grow anymore..Thus the club in my opinion has to do more than just pedal the we can't please everyone all of the time attitude which many feel it currently displays.
What the club should consider is how many more members it could have? I fear however that it is happy with its 7500 odd members and the "opinionated ones" don't fit in with the business plan anymore..A lot of those members however were very long standing members of the club!! Out of the 7500 odd members.. how many just have the feeling that well..Its only £38 or so so I might as well just leave the direct debit active…
What if an alternative club was formed?? I am not saying that it will rival the TVR club but you may find that when faced with a choice…The finite pool of members will reduce at the TVR Car Club.
You may not like the feedback but in the same way you don't seem to want to listen to actual disenfranchised owners who are your only other source of membership!! For a commercial enterprise that is a very strange view of things..
We have Hillclimbing, Circuit racing, Drag racing, Gymkhanas…All it seems existing in a parallel world to the TVR car club!
Perhaps the club should actually start pushing certain specifics instead of being the one size fits all club and actually failing to please anyone…The true definition of Compromise….Nobody getting everything / Anything that they want!!
Neil.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Wednesday 19th November 17:33
There are non so blind as those that cannot see. 
Continuing to dismiss opinion of those that see differently is a failure, that failure sits on both sides in a position where folk disagree and neither are really right or wrong.
The club you feel will change Andrew, is the club that for 35 years has changed very little in terms of attitude. Opinion based upon experience.
I passed an opinion on the stand that was based on feedback I was offered by new enthusiastic non political TVR owners, it was not courted.
I'm sure there will be a wash up at the next committee meeting, but will show success be based on feedback or number of competed applications?
I'm not a club knocker as you will see from my positive feedback on this thread, but I am an ex member, go figure?
Continuing to dismiss opinion of those that see differently is a failure, that failure sits on both sides in a position where folk disagree and neither are really right or wrong.
The club you feel will change Andrew, is the club that for 35 years has changed very little in terms of attitude. Opinion based upon experience.
I passed an opinion on the stand that was based on feedback I was offered by new enthusiastic non political TVR owners, it was not courted.
I'm sure there will be a wash up at the next committee meeting, but will show success be based on feedback or number of competed applications?
I'm not a club knocker as you will see from my positive feedback on this thread, but I am an ex member, go figure?
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 19th November 19:16
Big Girls Blouse said:
David.
I am not a member of the club anymore I came back after a gap of 4 years, realised that the topics on the club forum were still on the same page and so I let my membership lapse again..!!
In all Honesty some of the reasons I had for dropping out were as a result of the one size must fit all, we must compromise, we can't please all people all of the time type attitude that the club in my opinion began to exhibit.. The last time I looked it was evident that the club expended a very large proportion of the club subs to host the stand with the justification that the cost was worth it so as to promote the marque. The stand at the NEC was very slick but the cars on the stand were not a good representation of the standard of cars required to promote the marque. I say that with no disrespect meant to the club members who did take the time out to exhibit and in no way would want them to feel that my comments are critical of the cars per-say BUT! Whilst the stand, banners, carpeting etc was very slick the cars did not seem to have a flow, theme, point, call it what you will….It seems to me that the club is more interested in being the type of club which has become a commercial operation deft in its pursuit of the average Joes subscription fee…Than the club of old.
Yes things do change but you should consider 1 very important aspect…There is only 1 large TVR club which in theory has a captive market..There are a finite number of TVR owners and regretfully this number isn't going to grow anymore..Thus the club in my opinion has to do more than just pedal the we can't please everyone all of the time attitude which many feel it currently displays.
What the club should consider is how many more members it could have? I fear however that it is happy with its 7500 odd members and the "opinionated ones" don't fit in with the business plan anymore..A lot of those members however were very long standing members of the club!! Out of the 7500 odd members.. how many just have the feeling that well..Its only £38 or so so I might as well just leave the direct debit active…
What if an alternative club was formed?? I am not saying that it will rival the TVR club but you may find that when faced with a choice…The finite pool of members will reduce at the TVR Car Club.
You may not like the feedback but in the same way you don't seem to want to listen to actual disenfranchised owners who are your only other source of membership!! For a commercial enterprise that is a very strange view of things..
We have Hillclimbing, Circuit racing, Drag racing, Gymkhanas…All it seems existing in a parallel world to the TVR car club!
Perhaps the club should actually start pushing certain specifics instead of being the one size fits all club and actually failing to please anyone…The true definition of Compromise….Nobody getting everything / Anything that they want!!
Neil.
Numpty if you want to change things, may i suggest you contact the TVRCC . Spouting bI am not a member of the club anymore I came back after a gap of 4 years, realised that the topics on the club forum were still on the same page and so I let my membership lapse again..!!
In all Honesty some of the reasons I had for dropping out were as a result of the one size must fit all, we must compromise, we can't please all people all of the time type attitude that the club in my opinion began to exhibit.. The last time I looked it was evident that the club expended a very large proportion of the club subs to host the stand with the justification that the cost was worth it so as to promote the marque. The stand at the NEC was very slick but the cars on the stand were not a good representation of the standard of cars required to promote the marque. I say that with no disrespect meant to the club members who did take the time out to exhibit and in no way would want them to feel that my comments are critical of the cars per-say BUT! Whilst the stand, banners, carpeting etc was very slick the cars did not seem to have a flow, theme, point, call it what you will….It seems to me that the club is more interested in being the type of club which has become a commercial operation deft in its pursuit of the average Joes subscription fee…Than the club of old.
Yes things do change but you should consider 1 very important aspect…There is only 1 large TVR club which in theory has a captive market..There are a finite number of TVR owners and regretfully this number isn't going to grow anymore..Thus the club in my opinion has to do more than just pedal the we can't please everyone all of the time attitude which many feel it currently displays.
What the club should consider is how many more members it could have? I fear however that it is happy with its 7500 odd members and the "opinionated ones" don't fit in with the business plan anymore..A lot of those members however were very long standing members of the club!! Out of the 7500 odd members.. how many just have the feeling that well..Its only £38 or so so I might as well just leave the direct debit active…
What if an alternative club was formed?? I am not saying that it will rival the TVR club but you may find that when faced with a choice…The finite pool of members will reduce at the TVR Car Club.
You may not like the feedback but in the same way you don't seem to want to listen to actual disenfranchised owners who are your only other source of membership!! For a commercial enterprise that is a very strange view of things..
We have Hillclimbing, Circuit racing, Drag racing, Gymkhanas…All it seems existing in a parallel world to the TVR car club!
Perhaps the club should actually start pushing certain specifics instead of being the one size fits all club and actually failing to please anyone…The true definition of Compromise….Nobody getting everything / Anything that they want!!
Neil.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Wednesday 19th November 17:33
ks on a public forum won't change anything. 
I think that some of you need a history lesson, without the hard (unpaid) work of TVRMs and others during the 1980s there would be no TVRCC, that's not just running the club but sorting out the issues left by the previous committee regarding VAT and tax. Which unresolved would have wiped the club out.
Please do not be quick to judge the older members.
The TVRCC has never been perfect for all. It's had periods where it had too loser links to the factory to be a proper enthusiasts car club and periods where it forgot the older car owners, but on balance if does a good job
Sorry for my typos, I'm on an iPhone in deepest darkest (and bloody freezing) Poland!!!
Please do not be quick to judge the older members.
The TVRCC has never been perfect for all. It's had periods where it had too loser links to the factory to be a proper enthusiasts car club and periods where it forgot the older car owners, but on balance if does a good job
Sorry for my typos, I'm on an iPhone in deepest darkest (and bloody freezing) Poland!!!
IF and only IF someone wants a TVR car club ...all you do is volunteer/become and RO/join the committee and bring a couple of mates along and yeh presto ...you can then pretty much do what you want ..in my time in the TVRCC, I am one of the oldest members (not in age, but time as a member), IMHO that has already happened twice (there was a third BUT even the committee didn't notice the the subtle manoeuvring, so cute was the manipulation!) both leading to the almost failure of the club, and brought back from the brink by people who cared about the club surviving, steering it safely, OK, maybe a bit too steady for some.
Adrian@
Adrian@
This thread started out on a highly positive note, and it initially gave the impression that parties formerly dischordant were actually placing an effort to see eye to eye. Lo and behold, there was too much positivity, and the resulting vacuum pulled in something distasteful.
ks on a public forum won't change anything. Personally, I thought it was a well considered, and a well constructed argument. Yours, on the other hand, is a schoolboy insult. thank you, for showing up on the Classics forum, spouting your version of pleasantries, and moving on. Especially, thank you for moving on.
I imagine curating cars for an exhibit of this nature, and asking those cars owners for their cooperation, would be no small challenge, one I would take great pleasure in avoiding. Herding cats comes to mind, as an adequate comparison.
I am a bad clubbie. The club I remained a member of the longest, met, monthly, at the Collier Automobile Collection. My principal reason for membership, was that it would allow me to literally dive under the cars, during our fifteen minute break, and take mental notes of various construction details. One benefit, in addition to all members being great automotive enthusiasts, was that it was relaxing. Most, if not all members were easily my senior, by at least a decade, most by two or better. There was always a great sense of decorum, and that stuffiness, and the awareness that our welcome was always revocable, ensured that we would be polite, well mannered, and appreciative of our surroundings. Another, that all members, regardless of their actual knowledge, attempted to contribute to the group's general knowledge, by presenting on a marque, model, individual car, or a theme of their choosing.
I find it to be a great pity, that with the great depth, and breadth of the knowledge base represented here, that we can not all be a little more generous, a little more helpful with information, and that each of us is not able to be a little more respectful of others' perspective and of the fact that each of us is entitled to our own opinion.
Quite likely, our ease with abrasiveness is a result of the anonymity, or simply the lack of likelihood of ever having to make eye contact with the person we are doing harm, or maybe it is a consequence of the disconnectedness that even makes it difficult to recognize that we are, in fact, addressing another person.
Clubs, then, like fora, have to provide some benefit to their membership. They also have to provide some attractiveness for potential members. Personally, I would prefer to see more of a motorsport focus, and would be more enthusiastic about club membership, if I were aware of the club schedule being heavier in the areas of gymkhana, solo, or track. On this side of the big water, that is something done so well, by the PCA. That organization is well supported, by the factory, who surely realize, just how much of a part the club plays, in the area of branding. While Les Edgar would do well to copy the overall Porsche marketing model, those of us looking to have a successful club, might be smart, if we were to study that particular organization, as its members don't seem too unhappy about having events aplenty.
To bring this full circle, thank you, Andrew, for your original post. It's a great story. I hope that the cars new owner will visit this site, at a time when we have all deemed it normal behavior to maintain some dignity. It would behoove us all to make the ground fertile for new members, rather than just fertilizing the ground. If we obviate an hostile environment, the onlookers will not join, we will be at a loss of their potential knowledge and contributions, and the dozen of us remaining, will have a very boring fight, indeed.
Having said that, I should point out that there are those, who read these pages, whom we would do well to welcome back by our actions, rather than our words. I am aware of some, whom we would all be grateful to have post here, who have chosen to remain silent.
Best,
B.
P.S. Prisoner if that's the kind of interaction you want to be known for, you are true to your name.
P.P.S. BigAl,
Please feel free to take out your chainsaw, and prune away.
ThePrisoner said:
Big Girls Blouse said:
David.
I am not a member of the club anymore I came back after a gap of 4 years, realised that the topics on the club forum were still on the same page and so I let my membership lapse again..!!
In all Honesty some of the reasons I had for dropping out were as a result of the one size must fit all, we must compromise, we can't please all people all of the time type attitude that the club in my opinion began to exhibit.. The last time I looked it was evident that the club expended a very large proportion of the club subs to host the stand with the justification that the cost was worth it so as to promote the marque. The stand at the NEC was very slick but the cars on the stand were not a good representation of the standard of cars required to promote the marque. I say that with no disrespect meant to the club members who did take the time out to exhibit and in no way would want them to feel that my comments are critical of the cars per-say BUT! Whilst the stand, banners, carpeting etc was very slick the cars did not seem to have a flow, theme, point, call it what you will….It seems to me that the club is more interested in being the type of club which has become a commercial operation deft in its pursuit of the average Joes subscription fee…Than the club of old.
Yes things do change but you should consider 1 very important aspect…There is only 1 large TVR club which in theory has a captive market..There are a finite number of TVR owners and regretfully this number isn't going to grow anymore..Thus the club in my opinion has to do more than just pedal the we can't please everyone all of the time attitude which many feel it currently displays.
What the club should consider is how many more members it could have? I fear however that it is happy with its 7500 odd members and the "opinionated ones" don't fit in with the business plan anymore..A lot of those members however were very long standing members of the club!! Out of the 7500 odd members.. how many just have the feeling that well..Its only £38 or so so I might as well just leave the direct debit active…
What if an alternative club was formed?? I am not saying that it will rival the TVR club but you may find that when faced with a choice…The finite pool of members will reduce at the TVR Car Club.
You may not like the feedback but in the same way you don't seem to want to listen to actual disenfranchised owners who are your only other source of membership!! For a commercial enterprise that is a very strange view of things..
We have Hillclimbing, Circuit racing, Drag racing, Gymkhanas…All it seems existing in a parallel world to the TVR car club!
Perhaps the club should actually start pushing certain specifics instead of being the one size fits all club and actually failing to please anyone…The true definition of Compromise….Nobody getting everything / Anything that they want!!
Neil.
Numpty if you want to change things, may i suggest you contact the TVRCC . Spouting bI am not a member of the club anymore I came back after a gap of 4 years, realised that the topics on the club forum were still on the same page and so I let my membership lapse again..!!
In all Honesty some of the reasons I had for dropping out were as a result of the one size must fit all, we must compromise, we can't please all people all of the time type attitude that the club in my opinion began to exhibit.. The last time I looked it was evident that the club expended a very large proportion of the club subs to host the stand with the justification that the cost was worth it so as to promote the marque. The stand at the NEC was very slick but the cars on the stand were not a good representation of the standard of cars required to promote the marque. I say that with no disrespect meant to the club members who did take the time out to exhibit and in no way would want them to feel that my comments are critical of the cars per-say BUT! Whilst the stand, banners, carpeting etc was very slick the cars did not seem to have a flow, theme, point, call it what you will….It seems to me that the club is more interested in being the type of club which has become a commercial operation deft in its pursuit of the average Joes subscription fee…Than the club of old.
Yes things do change but you should consider 1 very important aspect…There is only 1 large TVR club which in theory has a captive market..There are a finite number of TVR owners and regretfully this number isn't going to grow anymore..Thus the club in my opinion has to do more than just pedal the we can't please everyone all of the time attitude which many feel it currently displays.
What the club should consider is how many more members it could have? I fear however that it is happy with its 7500 odd members and the "opinionated ones" don't fit in with the business plan anymore..A lot of those members however were very long standing members of the club!! Out of the 7500 odd members.. how many just have the feeling that well..Its only £38 or so so I might as well just leave the direct debit active…
What if an alternative club was formed?? I am not saying that it will rival the TVR club but you may find that when faced with a choice…The finite pool of members will reduce at the TVR Car Club.
You may not like the feedback but in the same way you don't seem to want to listen to actual disenfranchised owners who are your only other source of membership!! For a commercial enterprise that is a very strange view of things..
We have Hillclimbing, Circuit racing, Drag racing, Gymkhanas…All it seems existing in a parallel world to the TVR car club!
Perhaps the club should actually start pushing certain specifics instead of being the one size fits all club and actually failing to please anyone…The true definition of Compromise….Nobody getting everything / Anything that they want!!
Neil.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Wednesday 19th November 17:33
ks on a public forum won't change anything. I imagine curating cars for an exhibit of this nature, and asking those cars owners for their cooperation, would be no small challenge, one I would take great pleasure in avoiding. Herding cats comes to mind, as an adequate comparison.
I am a bad clubbie. The club I remained a member of the longest, met, monthly, at the Collier Automobile Collection. My principal reason for membership, was that it would allow me to literally dive under the cars, during our fifteen minute break, and take mental notes of various construction details. One benefit, in addition to all members being great automotive enthusiasts, was that it was relaxing. Most, if not all members were easily my senior, by at least a decade, most by two or better. There was always a great sense of decorum, and that stuffiness, and the awareness that our welcome was always revocable, ensured that we would be polite, well mannered, and appreciative of our surroundings. Another, that all members, regardless of their actual knowledge, attempted to contribute to the group's general knowledge, by presenting on a marque, model, individual car, or a theme of their choosing.
I find it to be a great pity, that with the great depth, and breadth of the knowledge base represented here, that we can not all be a little more generous, a little more helpful with information, and that each of us is not able to be a little more respectful of others' perspective and of the fact that each of us is entitled to our own opinion.
Quite likely, our ease with abrasiveness is a result of the anonymity, or simply the lack of likelihood of ever having to make eye contact with the person we are doing harm, or maybe it is a consequence of the disconnectedness that even makes it difficult to recognize that we are, in fact, addressing another person.
Clubs, then, like fora, have to provide some benefit to their membership. They also have to provide some attractiveness for potential members. Personally, I would prefer to see more of a motorsport focus, and would be more enthusiastic about club membership, if I were aware of the club schedule being heavier in the areas of gymkhana, solo, or track. On this side of the big water, that is something done so well, by the PCA. That organization is well supported, by the factory, who surely realize, just how much of a part the club plays, in the area of branding. While Les Edgar would do well to copy the overall Porsche marketing model, those of us looking to have a successful club, might be smart, if we were to study that particular organization, as its members don't seem too unhappy about having events aplenty.
To bring this full circle, thank you, Andrew, for your original post. It's a great story. I hope that the cars new owner will visit this site, at a time when we have all deemed it normal behavior to maintain some dignity. It would behoove us all to make the ground fertile for new members, rather than just fertilizing the ground. If we obviate an hostile environment, the onlookers will not join, we will be at a loss of their potential knowledge and contributions, and the dozen of us remaining, will have a very boring fight, indeed.
Having said that, I should point out that there are those, who read these pages, whom we would do well to welcome back by our actions, rather than our words. I am aware of some, whom we would all be grateful to have post here, who have chosen to remain silent.
Best,
B.
P.S. Prisoner if that's the kind of interaction you want to be known for, you are true to your name.
P.P.S. BigAl,
Please feel free to take out your chainsaw, and prune away.
Slow M said:
Personally, I thought it was a well considered, and a well constructed argument. Yours, on the other hand, is a schoolboy insult. thank you, for showing up on the Classics forum, spouting your version of pleasantries, and moving on. Especially, thank you for moving on.
P.S. Prisoner if that's the kind of interaction you want to be known for, you are true to your name.
Thanks for your input, always a pleasure. We are all schoolboys at heart when it comes to TVR's. I just think IMO you can change things if you really want to. As i said before , take it to the Club. P.S. Prisoner if that's the kind of interaction you want to be known for, you are true to your name.
PS. If your ever over in the UK, Please feel free to visit me in one of her Majesty's establishments.
Dollyman1850 said:
TVRMs said:
Astacus said:
Middle picture has the back view of a guy with an interesting jacket on.
The new TVR folk provided those for last year. Seems the roar back is more purr than roar, but we wait...The little red car has an interesting story and its nice to hear tales like that, but I thought events like this were to promote the marque?
While the other stands will have pristine examples of whatever they can pull together this little car is sat with no bumpers, an engine that was probably not on a drawing board when the car was built and generally looks a little sad?
Maybe sums up TVR at the moment??
Just an observation.
I don't think you are alone in the feeling that the current management of the club seems to have lost its direction and northern focus?
Whether it becomes another club big enough to give the current one something to aspire to remains to be seen.
Maybe its time to push an alternative membership experience for an increasing disenfranchised enthusiast base !
N.
What has "lost the northern focus" mean, please explain?
portzi said:
"I don't think you are alone in the feeling that the current management of the club seems to have lost its direction and northern focus"?
What has "lost the northern focus" mean, please explain?
Is is that none of the committee wear flat caps, own ferrets and say 'Aye Oop Lad' as a greeting? What has "lost the northern focus" mean, please explain?
V8 GRF said:
portzi said:
"I don't think you are alone in the feeling that the current management of the club seems to have lost its direction and northern focus"?
What has "lost the northern focus" mean, please explain?
Is is that none of the committee wear flat caps, own ferrets and say 'Aye Oop Lad' as a greeting? What has "lost the northern focus" mean, please explain?
One of the best meetings in the UK is sited only 10 mins from my house ...I rarely attend because the event that is held in Meriden (THE center on England) as it is on a day of rest FROM TVR's for me, my wife and boy.
Adrian@
I did my bit for the TVRCC a long time ago, but stopped, so that no one could accuse me of using the club to help my business.
TVRMs said:
I have spoken with a few folk about the stand and their views were that the stand was poor.
John,I don't want to stir up arguements on here and I would have emailed you direct but your profile does not allow it.
I am interested to know did they give any indication of why they thought the stand was poor?
Was there any specifics that we can learn from?
Since I have put my head up above the parrapet (please don't shoot at me), has anyone else got a specific comments good or bad that we can learn from.
From my point of view, we do have a place for TVRCC members to have a sit down with a free tea or coffee (plus biscuits and cake!) so that they can have a break from walking around the show. Ralph arranges a different selection of cars at the show each year. The stand assemblies are modular and Paul tries to change it about each year to make it look a bit different each show but there must be more ways to improve the stand and we do welcome suggestions.
Cheers
Richard
V8 GRF said:
portzi said:
"I don't think you are alone in the feeling that the current management of the club seems to have lost its direction and northern focus"?
What has "lost the northern focus" mean, please explain?
Is is that none of the committee wear flat caps, own ferrets and say 'Aye Oop Lad' as a greeting? What has "lost the northern focus" mean, please explain?
I think what such a small town in Lancashire Blackpool is and how it has produced such a variety of well loved sports cars. We should all be united together in honour of such an achievement. And l better not forget that the next chapter of this dare l say it great Marque is unfolding. I don't like all this talk of break a way tvr clubs
. hi richard, i for one liked the stand and as always enjoyed my talk with you. i tell you something now, i couldn't stand there all day for 3 days listening to all the, how can i say it politely, well you know!!!!!!!!! i take my hat off to you and your erstwhile colleauges. best regards keith
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