Vixen 5 speed gearbox conversion
Discussion
Having overcome an electrical meltdown I'm now going to do some engine stuff on the 1600 Vixen over the winter and as always one thing leads to another - while the engine is out is the 5 speed box conversion straightforward? Which Type 9 box/bellhousing should I look for and are there pits with snakes in regarding the mounts/propshaft and speedo cable? The clutch looks like it needs to go to cable type so what has to be done in that department?
Many thanks
Al
Many thanks
Al
The S2 Vixen 1600 that I have just sold (the one that you bid for on my recent ebay auction and then retracted your bid 
) has had the 5 speed gearbox conversion carried out on it.
In the history file, that is with the car, a previous owner made a very documented written record of everything that he did to the car during his ownership which included the 5 speed conversion and a full list of all of the parts used with the part numbers as well. I am sure that most if not all of these parts are still available these days.
I could always photocopy the relevant pages of the conversion for you before the new owner of the Vixen comes to collect it.
) has had the 5 speed gearbox conversion carried out on it.In the history file, that is with the car, a previous owner made a very documented written record of everything that he did to the car during his ownership which included the 5 speed conversion and a full list of all of the parts used with the part numbers as well. I am sure that most if not all of these parts are still available these days.
I could always photocopy the relevant pages of the conversion for you before the new owner of the Vixen comes to collect it.
missingbadly999 said:
Having overcome an electrical meltdown I'm now going to do some engine stuff on the 1600 Vixen over the winter and as always one thing leads to another - while the engine is out is the 5 speed box conversion straightforward? Which Type 9 box/bellhousing should I look for and are there pits with snakes in regarding the mounts/propshaft and speedo cable? The clutch looks like it needs to go to cable type so what has to be done in that department?
Many thanks
Al
Al the conversion on my Vixen uses a Ford Sierra Gear Box and is converted to hydraulic Clutch this was done By the TVRCC Member who restored the car in 2008/2009 however he was a Professional Engineer if you get in touch I will happily call him and find out exactly what he used most is in the file somewhereMany thanks
Al
Andrew
http://wiki.retro-rides.org/Print.aspx?Page=Type%2...
ignore all the metalwork info but the clutch etc info is all written down.
You can cut and re-weld your chassis mounts which need to be further rearward or you can make up a fatter plate which will do the same job..
I would also use the quick shift otherwise your throw will be too long
New prop required as well.
My box is a BGH gear tech long 1st and close ratio. the std type 9 ratios are a bit cack
Speak to Dave College at retro ford or Burtons. Both will sell you all the bits required. i would recommend the concentric hydraulic release bearing conversion kit but if you are S3 vixen then you probably just want to stick with cable.
N.
ignore all the metalwork info but the clutch etc info is all written down.
You can cut and re-weld your chassis mounts which need to be further rearward or you can make up a fatter plate which will do the same job..
I would also use the quick shift otherwise your throw will be too long
New prop required as well.
My box is a BGH gear tech long 1st and close ratio. the std type 9 ratios are a bit cack
Speak to Dave College at retro ford or Burtons. Both will sell you all the bits required. i would recommend the concentric hydraulic release bearing conversion kit but if you are S3 vixen then you probably just want to stick with cable.
N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 24th November 07:56
Using exhaust brackets attached to the main lower chassis rail is less than ideal but i suppose will counteract the rotational torque of the gearbox rather than relying on the original mounting point alone.
As said earlier the flat plate solution does work whether referred to as a custom mount designed by a professional engineer or a just called a flat plate!
The correct and neater way to do it would be to cut off the existing chassis brackets and then weld the simple new mounts to the chassis to allow a correct gearbox mounting bracket (readily available) and correct damper mount to be used at a location directly below the gearbox mounting point.
I am also happy to send anyone a template of the chassis mounts which can be made in less than 10 minutes.
N.
As said earlier the flat plate solution does work whether referred to as a custom mount designed by a professional engineer or a just called a flat plate!
The correct and neater way to do it would be to cut off the existing chassis brackets and then weld the simple new mounts to the chassis to allow a correct gearbox mounting bracket (readily available) and correct damper mount to be used at a location directly below the gearbox mounting point.
I am also happy to send anyone a template of the chassis mounts which can be made in less than 10 minutes.
N.
prideaux said:
Very Neat Neil and looks rather impressive
Could you at the same time share how successful your engineering skills have been in test ie road use and track use without failure now that would be nice to hear
As I know the answer this reply is not aimed to be negative towards your great work but the proof of anything is the success long term and in use so I hope that at least your Dad gets out and puts some miles up and we see the car rather than pictures when finished.
Regards Maintenance It was a dream to remove when I had the issues with the cog ring two of us had the gear box out in under an hour and back in as quickly once I changed the cog ring and the core plug.
Sorry I didn't take any internal pictures as I was in a rush to get her on the road to Spa classic as its not just about building these cars but using them as well
Andrew
Only on a 300hp race car Andrew. This one is a little simpler!Could you at the same time share how successful your engineering skills have been in test ie road use and track use without failure now that would be nice to hear
As I know the answer this reply is not aimed to be negative towards your great work but the proof of anything is the success long term and in use so I hope that at least your Dad gets out and puts some miles up and we see the car rather than pictures when finished.
Regards Maintenance It was a dream to remove when I had the issues with the cog ring two of us had the gear box out in under an hour and back in as quickly once I changed the cog ring and the core plug.
Sorry I didn't take any internal pictures as I was in a rush to get her on the road to Spa classic as its not just about building these cars but using them as well
Andrew
Edited by prideaux on Monday 24th November 19:05
yours shows a workmanlike approach but I would not want an exhaust clamp chewing on my chassis rails.
A pic of the bell housing internals on mine..
I do remember those early posts regarding the teething problems with your 5 speed conversion.
Since this pic was taken the concentric release bearing has been rotated to allow the pipework to exit from the other side of the bell housing.
http://www.hockerley.freeserve.co.uk/pages/gearbox...
Another link to a vixen 5 sp conversion.
N.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Interesting topic here!!
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 24th November 19:35
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 24th November 19:38
You can try http://www.retro-ford.co.uk/shop/ for the conversion parts. I used them when I fitted a Zetec into my MGB.
prideaux said:
Neil one that has yet to be tested
If you looked carefully the exhaust is far from chewing at any chassis rail if you thought before you typed it might help you have missed one vital thing and that in using the method shown you have no going back you have altered the original design to suit your set up.
However using this set up gives the option of both should I decide to sprint the car a Different ratio 4 speed box would be my choice and this could be changed over one Saturday and sprinted the next and that was the original intention of the builder.
Neil we both take different approaches to things in our cars however I don't intentionally comment on what you do unless provoked however just because I tend to do what I am happy and confident in doing myself then ask and often pay for Expert help when needed.
Rather than going to experts then Copying/helping yourself to there ideas rather than paying them to do the work then that's your choice.
Keep up the good work
Andrew
AndrewIf you looked carefully the exhaust is far from chewing at any chassis rail if you thought before you typed it might help you have missed one vital thing and that in using the method shown you have no going back you have altered the original design to suit your set up.
However using this set up gives the option of both should I decide to sprint the car a Different ratio 4 speed box would be my choice and this could be changed over one Saturday and sprinted the next and that was the original intention of the builder.
Neil we both take different approaches to things in our cars however I don't intentionally comment on what you do unless provoked however just because I tend to do what I am happy and confident in doing myself then ask and often pay for Expert help when needed.
Rather than going to experts then Copying/helping yourself to there ideas rather than paying them to do the work then that's your choice.
Keep up the good work
Andrew
I was referring to the exhaust clamps which are used to attach the flat plate to the chassis rail. and not the exhaust clamps holding the exhaust together. Whilst they do the job required they will eventually wear into the steel chassis rail because they are a clamp joint with 2 thin pieces of metal pushing against a thin hollow tube. It works but will eventually cut into the paint finish of your chassis rail. If I ever want to go back to a 4 speed gearbox I will simply cut those mounts off and weld on a new 4 speed mount in the correct place so I am not sure what logic you are trying to apply with respect to one solution over another. If I ever sprint the car then It will be sprinted in the knowledge that I don't have to change the gearbox from the existing one to do so?
I have no issues at all with you showing alternative ways of doing things. I do however need to comment if something which is not of sound engineering practise is shown and described as a conversion carried out by a professional engineer.
Again. I have limited my comments to the topic in hand but you have saw fit to make those comments more of a personal nature.
i hope the photographs in the thread allow someone who is wanting to tackle the work themselves do so in a manner which works for them!
N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 24th November 20:25
phillpot said:
Dollyman1850 said:
A pic of the bell housing internals on mine..
If I might just interrupt the jovial banter for a moment, not being familiar with new fangled things like integral slave cylinders (or whatever they're called) could I ask why two pipes, is one just for bleeding? N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 24th November 20:26
Sonus said:
You can try http://www.retro-ford.co.uk/shop/ for the conversion parts. I used them when I fitted a Zetec into my MGB.
yep. Dave Colledge is a very knowledgable and approachable guy when it comes to all things crossflow, escort and Zetec.N.
Yes, second pipe is for bleeding, otherwise it would be an "engine out" job..
I can see the merits of both solutions, moving the mounts is, effectively, just doing what TVR would have done. Andrew's solution offers the option of reverting to original spec, if kept tight l don't think any chassis damage would result from the plate attachment method. In practice l think both would allow quick 'box removals and should work equally well long term.
A search for 5 speed conversion would reveal info about bell housings, input spline data and clutch options, l was looking into it but the bell housing challenge put me off.
Phil
I can see the merits of both solutions, moving the mounts is, effectively, just doing what TVR would have done. Andrew's solution offers the option of reverting to original spec, if kept tight l don't think any chassis damage would result from the plate attachment method. In practice l think both would allow quick 'box removals and should work equally well long term.
A search for 5 speed conversion would reveal info about bell housings, input spline data and clutch options, l was looking into it but the bell housing challenge put me off.
Phil
ATE399J said:
Yes, second pipe is for bleeding, otherwise it would be an "engine out" job..
I can see the merits of both solutions, moving the mounts is, effectively, just doing what TVR would have done. Andrew's solution offers the option of reverting to original spec, if kept tight l don't think any chassis damage would result from the plate attachment method. In practice l think both would allow quick 'box removals and should work equally well long term.
A search for 5 speed conversion would reveal info about bell housings, input spline data and clutch options, l was looking into it but the bell housing challenge put me off.
Phil
You can use a std 5 sp sierra bel housing Phil or buy one of many proprietary LM25 Alloy bell housings. Most crossflow cars all over the world are 5 speed these days…Thousands have been converted.I can see the merits of both solutions, moving the mounts is, effectively, just doing what TVR would have done. Andrew's solution offers the option of reverting to original spec, if kept tight l don't think any chassis damage would result from the plate attachment method. In practice l think both would allow quick 'box removals and should work equally well long term.
A search for 5 speed conversion would reveal info about bell housings, input spline data and clutch options, l was looking into it but the bell housing challenge put me off.
Phil
Interested to know what put you off?
N.
ATE399J said:
if kept tight l don't think any chassis damage would result from the plate attachment method.
Problem is (as I see it), they are "tu'penny ha'penny" exhaust clamps. Tightened correctly they'll cut into the chassis coating. Too loose and they'll damage it even worse by moving around but too tight and the pressed metal part will start to collapse.I'd look at getting some solid blocks machined to replace them or do away with them altogether and pull the plate hard against the chassis with the U clamps
Dollyman1850 said:
ATE399J said:
Yes, second pipe is for bleeding, otherwise it would be an "engine out" job..
I can see the merits of both solutions, moving the mounts is, effectively, just doing what TVR would have done. Andrew's solution offers the option of reverting to original spec, if kept tight l don't think any chassis damage would result from the plate attachment method. In practice l think both would allow quick 'box removals and should work equally well long term.
A search for 5 speed conversion would reveal info about bell housings, input spline data and clutch options, l was looking into it but the bell housing challenge put me off.
Phil
You can use a std 5 sp sierra bel housing Phil or buy one of many proprietary LM25 Alloy bell housings. Most crossflow cars all over the world are 5 speed these days…Thousands have been converted.I can see the merits of both solutions, moving the mounts is, effectively, just doing what TVR would have done. Andrew's solution offers the option of reverting to original spec, if kept tight l don't think any chassis damage would result from the plate attachment method. In practice l think both would allow quick 'box removals and should work equally well long term.
A search for 5 speed conversion would reveal info about bell housings, input spline data and clutch options, l was looking into it but the bell housing challenge put me off.
Phil
Interested to know what put you off?
N.
Anyway, l decided l like my 'box with the overdrive even if the ratios aren't the best.
ATE399J said:
Essex V6 requires either a "special" at about £500 from Burton (IF they have one) or finding a bellhousing from an Essex V4 and we all know there are plenty of those around!
Anyway, l decided l like my 'box with the overdrive even if the ratios aren't the best.
T5 for an essex Phil Anyway, l decided l like my 'box with the overdrive even if the ratios aren't the best.
The old essex box is a different thing altogether…Very nice ratios and bomb proof.. I had a whining one on the back of a 5.0 cobra replica..we couldn't break it.
N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 24th November 21:06
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