Grantura Mk3 For Sale

Grantura Mk3 For Sale

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Thurner Fan

98 posts

154 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
Fiscracer said:
Here's the first 3 laps of the Les Leston Cup at Goodwood 73MM last weekend for those interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=repX7ldtOlI
Great stuff, always interesting to see some in-car. Are you planning to put any of the other laps up? It would be interesting to see exactly where and when the waved yellows were shown mid-race. Couldn't quite work it out at the time from my vantage point.

I suppose there might be some more action from the Les Leston race shown in the ITV4 show tomorrow evening. But probably won't be much more than the brief highlights already available here (down the page a bit).

https://grrc.goodwood.com/tag/73mm-video/#xGy8efJ2...

By the way, it looks as though the clip at 1.12 to 1.19 has been edited into the wrong place given the order of the cars shown. From the lap charts I think it was actually on lap 7 and should have correctly been inserted in the spot when the lady with the lovely hat features. However, it does show a brilliant (on track!) two-car overtake by the red MGB at St.Marys, setting him free to chase after the leader.

Having now had a close look at the TSL Timing results and, given our parallel chat about power and weight, I think the Best Speeds section makes quite interesting reading, particularly the Intermediate 2 numbers which, I think, reflect the speed of the cars flat out toward the end of the Lavant straight?

TF

Edited by Thurner Fan on Wednesday 1st April 16:19

Thurner Fan

98 posts

154 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
Fiscracer said:
Thurner Fan said:


An engine tuner friend of mine suggested that the original HRG heads can be gas flowed to achieve slightly better results than the modern US sourced replicas. He said casting quality with the latter can be something of an issue. But finding a surviving original HRG that is in good enough condition to use is very difficult and not going to get any easier, hence the common use of the modern replicas even though they may not work quite as well.
Quite right on the HRG heads being a better design. The trouble is they soften with repeated heat cycles and cannot hold the clamping pressure, so head gaskets go, hence the use of MSX heads. Given the obsession with things t hat give no performance advantage such as kamm tails and 'wide' chassis top rails on Granturas, it's ironic that modern crossflow heads which give a huge increase in torque are allowed.
I'm not really sure what you are saying here. My point was that the original HRG Derrington X-flow heads perform better but now very rarely found to be in useable condition these days so racers are having to use the MSX replicas. By design, both will give much improved torque versus the standard MGB head, albeit with slightly less top end power perhaps. So, the MSX is effectively, a poor copy of the original and so not an advantage.

NB : For those that aren't aware, the 7-port X-flow head was homologated for TVR Granturas but not for MGBs. So, using a copy of the original HRG item, albeit an inferior copy, is in line with Appendix K and the TVRs homologation.

Fiscracer said:
Most people run steel cranks with bespoke main caps, however the 18V block is stronger than the earlier 18GG ones.
I'm curious. Do you believe that the 18V stronger than the earlier 18GB/GD/GG home market blocks in any way other than the main caps? I had only ever heard of the one difference.

Fiscracer said:
Better not talk about later 4 synchro gearboxes and use of overdrive neither of which are legal.
I've heard that, because it is lighter, the TVR can quite successfully use the 3-synchro gearbox whereas, as you've stated before, a race MGB will break a 3-synchro 'box due to increased torque on certain parts (the layshaft?). Hence the (illegal) use of the late '67-onwards 4-synchro on many MGBs, but the TVRs still using the correct pre-'66 MGB gearbox and, thereby, gaining another slight weight advantage.

Fiscracer said:
Period factory cars had no roll cage, no fire extinguisher, thin gauge steel chassis and ultra lightweight bodies.
Yes, plus they were using tyres that would have been inferior to the modern replicas on a track that probably wasn't as grippy.

Fiscracer said:
My MGB weighs 1050kg with me in it and 20L of fuel but it is set up for endurance racing with a big tank, dual pumps, dual coils, wiring for auxilliary lights etc etc. Barry's car is 150kgs lighter and Chris probably weighs 40kgs less than me.
So, assuming the fuel is about 15kg, there's another 10kg fluids, and the driver, Chris, is, say 70kg, you seem to be implying that Barry's car weighs only 765kg dry. Surely if it were that far below the homologated 840kg (or is it 830kg) it would have been picked up in Goodwood post-race checks? Or am I missing something? Were the alumnium-bodied Le Mans cars homologated with a different weight?

Fiscracer said:
Chris may be a 'weekend warrior' but he was quicker than both the pro drivers when they ran the Jaguar XKR in British GT. 2.25 around Spa ain't slow. When I raced against Tommy Entwistle in the Mongoose 30+ years ago, fast he was not.
When I used the term 'weekend warrior' I was specifically referring to the TVR drivers at the 73MM, simply to make the point that the period lap times I was quoting had been set by drivers who, arguably, had a lot more seat time under their belts and were racing most weekends. With all due respect to Tommy Entwistle he did win the Freddie March Trophy several times in his TVR Granturas and so must have been reasonably handy back in the day. He had the benefit of having his cars prepped by David Hives, who was TVR's race engineer and chief mechanic through the 1960s. In 1965 John Wingfield would have been driving either the ex-Paddy Gaston lightweight car or, on occasion, one of Jim Boothby's other lightweight Mk3s.

I hadn't actually realised that Chris Ryan had spent time racing against professionals but I now see that he also has some BTCC as well as British GT experience, albeit quite a while ago.

Fiscracer said:
Mmmm. My race was completely compromised by backmarkers, who moved onto and then off line or were oblivious to your prescence or did not expect you to carry so much speed into a corner - as happened to Chris at Woodcote.
I hear what you say and it is always a difficult area for the faster drivers I would imagine. It just looked to me as though the Turner driver did exactly what he should have done at that corner and the faster car should have plotted a better course, even if his focus was on staying ahead of the TVR. There are always two sides to the story though. A couple of driver friends of mine who took part in other races both said that in their pre-race briefings the clerks of the course were very hot on lapped cars staying on their line and for the faster cars not to overdrive, such are the consequences of an 'off' at as fast a circuit as Goodwood.


We've probably done the Les Leston Cup to death now. I'm off now to see if I can dig up some stuff for the new 'Grantura Racing History' thread.

TF


Edited by Thurner Fan on Wednesday 1st April 20:33

Hullygully

85 posts

213 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
Hi...yep, used to drive this (a lot). It was genuinely delightful to drive, and almost as competent in terms of road use as my Vixen S2. In fact the weakest element of the car turned out to be the driver... Surely any TVR that hasn't been thoroughly sorted would be a crap driving experience.

RobMk2a

432 posts

130 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
Mark,

I see from your profile the Grantura originally had a climax engine. Do you have any early history was it used in competition.

You say used to drive have you sold it.

Rob

Fiscracer

585 posts

209 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
RobMk2a said:
Quote

"for those who don't know DRX 255C is the MGB that came 2nd in class and 11th overall at Le Mans in 1965. Barry has turned down £300k for it."

FYI - Andrew Hedges son lives in a village near me and has a 'works' replica (although built on a later shell).

I guess Barry has owned the car for a number of years and it has ' evolved' but do you think it would be nice to see it with the Le mans droop nose and 'correct' size engine.

Rob

(PS I've owned a MGB since 1989 as a more practical (if now rusty) replacement for my Grantura.

Edited by RobMk2a on Wednesday 1st April 08:26


Edited by RobMk2a on Wednesday 1st April 09:05
Barry bought the car for tuppence about 40 years ago. It has not evolved very much and still has original rear only square section roll cage, flared spats on the arches and other period features. The front end was substantially rebuilt after a nasty accident at night on the Mulsanne straight at LMC about 10 years ago. Bill Wykeham built a droop snoot MGB as homage to DRX some years ago but it would not get papers as it does not adhere to the homologation......

To answer TF's question. Original works cars which ran aluminium bodies in period are allowed to keep them for homologation purposes, mere replicas like mine have to stay with steel and adhere to the homologated minimum weight. If you have the funds of course instead of racing 'the 'works car', you buy a new heritage shell, acid dip it, clad it in aluminium and put a 2.1 litre engine in it and race that one, keeping the real one hidden in a barn somewhere. Everyone thinks you are a superb driver......not that anyone would do that of course. t is an open secret that this is being done with Cobras and GT40s.

Fiscracer

585 posts

209 months

Wednesday 1st April 2015
quotequote all
Thurner Fan said:
Fiscracer said:
Here's the first 3 laps of the Les Leston Cup at Goodwood 73MM last weekend for those interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=repX7ldtOlI
Great stuff, always interesting to see some in-car. Are you planning to put any of the other laps up? It would be interesting to see exactly where and when the waved yellows were shown mid-race. Couldn't quite work it out at the time from my vantage point.

I suppose there might be some more action from the Les Leston race shown in the ITV4 show tomorrow evening. But probably won't be much more than the brief highlights already available here (down the page a bit).

https://grrc.goodwood.com/tag/73mm-video/#xGy8efJ2...

By the way, it looks as though the clip at 1.12 to 1.19 has been edited into the wrong place given the order of the cars shown. From the lap charts I think it was actually on lap 7 and should have correctly been inserted in the spot when the lady with the lovely hat features. However, it does show a brilliant (on track!) two-car overtake by the red MGB at St.Marys, setting him free to chase after the leader.

Having now had a close look at the TSL Timing results and, given our parallel chat about power and weight, I think the Best Speeds section makes quite interesting reading, particularly the Intermediate 2 numbers which, I think, reflect the speed of the cars flat out toward the end of the Lavant straight?

TF

Edited by Thurner Fan on Wednesday 1st April 16:19
Let me have your email and I will send you the whole race, including Hans catching fire and losing my exhaust when lapping the green Elite.

Intermediate 2 is indeed terminal speed down the Lavant straight but you will see I was faster at Intermediate 1 the entry to no name corner - relative speeds are interesting as I don't believe 124mph as my GPS data logger says 119. The finish line number tells you who has the fastest car

If only I had had an invite in my Grantura rather than the MGB......

Cheers

Hullygully

85 posts

213 months

Thursday 2nd April 2015
quotequote all
Hi Rob,
I don't have any early history of the car at all. I bought it (at the tender age of 17) from a chap in Lincolnshire who had a variety of sports racers. I suspect that the original Climax went into his Elite. There wasn't a chassis plate with the car (or log book), but I traced its registration number via East Sussex County Records, and they supplied me with a copy of the original registration document (29.9.60) which included the chassis number and the name of the original dealer (St James Motors, Brighton). This particular car was 7/C/231, and according to the documents it had a 'sister' car registered on the same date (3341CD, 7/C/242).

The car had full leather interior, Alfin drums and 8000rpm rev counter as per Climax spec. The steering box was sourced via Fred Boothby (as was the alloy tank), and the engine I used was the 3 bearing 1500 BMC unit (balanced etc...actually lovely).

Sadly, I totalled it with a light crash/spin on a diesel covered country lane...not much damage...until the fire took hold...

Not aware of any racing history.

Hope this is of interest,

Mark

RobMk2a

432 posts

130 months

Thursday 2nd April 2015
quotequote all
Sorry to hear that - beautiful car.

Interesting about the Boothby connection.

Rob