FiA historic technical passport
Discussion
So basically for what I can gather for this is that we have historic car that have raced in British races and its a little vague on the FIA international side of things. However the concrete evidence that the M's have raced with other FIA cars....so maybe there is an angle on this,
In the new year I will be challenging the FIA on this and does anyone want to form a group to support trying to get our cars FIA approved.
In the new year I will be challenging the FIA on this and does anyone want to form a group to support trying to get our cars FIA approved.
Sure. A FIA aproval will double the value of M car's. And as I'm not 100% thru the approval of my car for the national races, could this help me as well.
The strange thing with the process in denmark, is that my car is not officially approced (as there is quite some paperwork involved in a local homologation) but they send me the lofbook, so I can go racing, but lacking the approval no, so it's a bit... strange.
The strange thing with the process in denmark, is that my car is not officially approced (as there is quite some paperwork involved in a local homologation) but they send me the lofbook, so I can go racing, but lacking the approval no, so it's a bit... strange.
terenceb said:
Facts right? Misinformation? Thats classic for someone known for such things in your beloved mgcc.Now go away and sulk in your corner and dont come out till youve grown up.Oh , and please dont come back to the Ring, they cant afford you crashing into another rescue vehical.CMS? Typicly way behind the times arn't we, only four years since it closed.
Merry Xmas.
Happy New Year Terry. Merry Xmas.
Edited by terenceb on Monday 22 December 18:47
I hope its kinder to you than the last few have been ;-)
just came across this, an old article from oct 1976
said:
There are in fact three Prodsports Championships this season: the Direct Tapes Northern Championship; the Euro-Burgess Southern Championship; and the BRSCC Championship for overall honours. Valli currently leads the former, Meek the second and overall honours should be a close call between Meek and Alford when points from the individuals' best so — many races are totted up at the end of the season. TVR's Managing Director Martin Lilley is giving enthusiastic support to Prodsports racing this season with the result that there are four highly-competitive Blackpool cars on the
grids, turned out in a fashion which is a credit to their individual sponsors and the glass-fibre cars' makers.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/october-1976/60/prodsports-tvrsgrids, turned out in a fashion which is a credit to their individual sponsors and the glass-fibre cars' makers.
GTRene said:
Sadly not international. Not withstanding the cars are too young for what I think is being aimed at!N.
tvrmallorca said:
Basically your only allowed to do regularity and not in competition class. Working in progress on the rest...as I am working my way through the rift of rules and requirements of our glorious FIA
I am really not sure what you are trying to achieve.. Fia Historic racing concerns racing cars in international classified events made for cars manufactured before 31.12 1965…Younger cars are not eligible. You can race an M series car in any number of club race events all over the UK and most of Europe.The M series car is a car from a more recent time so is irrelevant with respect to Fia paperwork ! unless I am missing something.
N.
Neil
FIA papers or HTP are available for all periods provided the car was homologated. It is divided by age, engine size and type. So for example a pre 66 MGB or TR4 is period F, under 2500cc and GTS whereas a Mini is CT10 (touring car). Most event organisers refer to pre 66 as 'historic' or 'oldtimer' but there are also events for 'post historic' or 'youngtimer' which includes cars like RS1600s, RS1800s, Porsche RSRs etc. As far as I know HTP is required for most classic rallies as well as racing.
Without existing homologation or demonstrating that a car of a particular type and specification competed in an international FIA sanctioned event in period in order to gain HTP, there is no chance of entering. The rules are very clear and as Terry has said even when you have got the evidence it can be a nightmare to get papers from the FIA.
If you want to do the Monte Carlo Classic best buy a car that is eligible
HTH
FIA papers or HTP are available for all periods provided the car was homologated. It is divided by age, engine size and type. So for example a pre 66 MGB or TR4 is period F, under 2500cc and GTS whereas a Mini is CT10 (touring car). Most event organisers refer to pre 66 as 'historic' or 'oldtimer' but there are also events for 'post historic' or 'youngtimer' which includes cars like RS1600s, RS1800s, Porsche RSRs etc. As far as I know HTP is required for most classic rallies as well as racing.
Without existing homologation or demonstrating that a car of a particular type and specification competed in an international FIA sanctioned event in period in order to gain HTP, there is no chance of entering. The rules are very clear and as Terry has said even when you have got the evidence it can be a nightmare to get papers from the FIA.
If you want to do the Monte Carlo Classic best buy a car that is eligible
HTH
Fiscracer said:
Neil
FIA papers or HTP are available for all periods provided the car was homologated. It is divided by age, engine size and type. So for example a pre 66 MGB or TR4 is period F, under 2500cc and GTS whereas a Mini is CT10 (touring car). Most event organisers refer to pre 66 as 'historic' or 'oldtimer' but there are also events for 'post historic' or 'youngtimer' which includes cars like RS1600s, RS1800s, Porsche RSRs etc. As far as I know HTP is required for most classic rallies as well as racing.
Without existing homologation or demonstrating that a car of a particular type and specification competed in an international FIA sanctioned event in period in order to gain HTP, there is no chance of entering. The rules are very clear and as Terry has said even when you have got the evidence it can be a nightmare to get papers from the FIA.
If you want to do the Monte Carlo Classic best buy a car that is eligible
HTH
The other periods seem to be for post historic GT and 2 seater touring and racing cars H1 and H2 I think…The M was never homologated for any racing as far as I am aware, Only UK based Prod Sports, The chopped M has ran in Asia with Chris schirle but again this was for selected races and never Fia events since it was a heavily modified car. This is the ONLY M that I am aware of which has raced outside of Europe, Similarly the S Turbo charged car, Later again but never homologated. The Seac was homologated but later banned I believe when they realised that the numbers actually built didn't meet eligibility.FIA papers or HTP are available for all periods provided the car was homologated. It is divided by age, engine size and type. So for example a pre 66 MGB or TR4 is period F, under 2500cc and GTS whereas a Mini is CT10 (touring car). Most event organisers refer to pre 66 as 'historic' or 'oldtimer' but there are also events for 'post historic' or 'youngtimer' which includes cars like RS1600s, RS1800s, Porsche RSRs etc. As far as I know HTP is required for most classic rallies as well as racing.
Without existing homologation or demonstrating that a car of a particular type and specification competed in an international FIA sanctioned event in period in order to gain HTP, there is no chance of entering. The rules are very clear and as Terry has said even when you have got the evidence it can be a nightmare to get papers from the FIA.
If you want to do the Monte Carlo Classic best buy a car that is eligible
HTH
The Cars Post Griff / Tuscan have no international foundation as far as I am aware..
Thus in my mind when considering the current rules relating to HTP the best (slim) chance of getting an HTP would be to cut the roof of an M and try to get proof of the M racing in Malasia etc as internationally sanctioned! The car would then need to be built to that spec which interestingly is a spec which never left the factory!
N.
There are plenty of arenas open to racing M's I just don't think that the froggies will ever grant papers for their little club..As has been mentioned before, America, Australasia etc don't count
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Sunday 18th January 14:15
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Sunday 18th January 14:17
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Sunday 18th January 14:20
Dollyman1850 said:
The other periods seem to be for post historic GT and 2 seater touring and racing cars H1 and H2 I think…The M was never homologated for any racing as far as I am aware, Only UK based Prod Sports, The chopped M has ran in Asia with Chris schirle but again this was for selected races and never Fia events since it was a heavily modified car. This is the ONLY M that I am aware of which has raced outside of Europe, Similarly the S Turbo charged car, Later again but never homologated. The Seac was homologated but later banned I believe when they realised that the numbers actually built didn't meet eligibility.
The Cars Post Griff / Tuscan have no international foundation as far as I am aware..
Thus in my mind when considering the current rules relating to HTP the best (slim) chance of getting an HTP would be to cut the roof of an M and try to get proof of the M racing in Malasia etc as internationally sanctioned! The car would then need to be built to that spec which interestingly is a spec which never left the factory!
N.
There are plenty of arenas open to racing M's I just don't think that the froggies will ever grant papers for their little club..As has been mentioned before, America, Australasia etc don't count
Are you saying that international events, such as Sebring, or the 24 Hours of Daytona don't count (toward the granting of historic papers)? The Cars Post Griff / Tuscan have no international foundation as far as I am aware..
Thus in my mind when considering the current rules relating to HTP the best (slim) chance of getting an HTP would be to cut the roof of an M and try to get proof of the M racing in Malasia etc as internationally sanctioned! The car would then need to be built to that spec which interestingly is a spec which never left the factory!
N.
There are plenty of arenas open to racing M's I just don't think that the froggies will ever grant papers for their little club..As has been mentioned before, America, Australasia etc don't count
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Sunday 18th January 14:15
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Sunday 18th January 14:17
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Sunday 18th January 14:20
Best regards,
Bernard.
Chatting with our local HTP scrutineer Saturday evening at a prizegiving.Was informed of the current turmoil caused by htp's five year expiration.
Lot's of people complaining about HTPs being withdrawn on previously granted vehicals.MGBs being targeted on use of four sync boxes (I had been warned this 'was on the cards' four years ago-hence my new three sync project) Even Alan Tice's Marcos-Spa class winner-Oldtimers champion2014, is having problems.And that being possibly one of the most compliant cars racing-what chance do the others who have been waiting for months already, have of getting thier new papers before season start?
I think the OP has a very long uphill struggle with his task.
Annoying thing is that as most/all Sports car or Saloon racing (historic) is not FIA sanctioned, why do you need this expensive waste of money in the first place.Raced my B at the six hour for three consecutive years without showing my papers, first year Jeremy Hall inspected the car."Its ok, I know the car and driver, it does conform". Rather nice I thought.
Lot's of people complaining about HTPs being withdrawn on previously granted vehicals.MGBs being targeted on use of four sync boxes (I had been warned this 'was on the cards' four years ago-hence my new three sync project) Even Alan Tice's Marcos-Spa class winner-Oldtimers champion2014, is having problems.And that being possibly one of the most compliant cars racing-what chance do the others who have been waiting for months already, have of getting thier new papers before season start?
I think the OP has a very long uphill struggle with his task.
Annoying thing is that as most/all Sports car or Saloon racing (historic) is not FIA sanctioned, why do you need this expensive waste of money in the first place.Raced my B at the six hour for three consecutive years without showing my papers, first year Jeremy Hall inspected the car."Its ok, I know the car and driver, it does conform". Rather nice I thought.
terenceb said:
Chatting with our local HTP scrutineer Saturday evening at a prizegiving.Was informed of the current turmoil caused by htp's five year expiration.
Lot's of people complaining about HTPs being withdrawn on previously granted vehicals.MGBs being targeted on use of four sync boxes (I had been warned this 'was on the cards' four years ago-hence my new three sync project) Even Alan Tice's Marcos-Spa class winner-Oldtimers champion2014, is having problems.And that being possibly one of the most compliant cars racing-what chance do the others who have been waiting for months already, have of getting thier new papers before season start?
I think the OP has a very long uphill struggle with his task.
Annoying thing is that as most/all Sports car or Saloon racing (historic) is not FIA sanctioned, why do you need this expensive waste of money in the first place.Raced my B at the six hour for three consecutive years without showing my papers, first year Jeremy Hall inspected the car."Its ok, I know the car and driver, it does conform". Rather nice I thought.
Exactly.Lot's of people complaining about HTPs being withdrawn on previously granted vehicals.MGBs being targeted on use of four sync boxes (I had been warned this 'was on the cards' four years ago-hence my new three sync project) Even Alan Tice's Marcos-Spa class winner-Oldtimers champion2014, is having problems.And that being possibly one of the most compliant cars racing-what chance do the others who have been waiting for months already, have of getting thier new papers before season start?
I think the OP has a very long uphill struggle with his task.
Annoying thing is that as most/all Sports car or Saloon racing (historic) is not FIA sanctioned, why do you need this expensive waste of money in the first place.Raced my B at the six hour for three consecutive years without showing my papers, first year Jeremy Hall inspected the car."Its ok, I know the car and driver, it does conform". Rather nice I thought.
If everyone just said stuff it to the Fia and raced their cars in non Fia sanctioned meetings we would soon see a dramatic change of course by the Fia. Perhaps this is what the organising clubs should look to do. I would think that international non sanctioned events ran by the local countries organising clubs could cash in on a very lucrative market. In my opinion the FIA is taking cars away from what they were in period not the other way around!
TVRMs said:
No chopped m in Asia, it was a late 80s S
A 70's S John IE 3000s (M brethren) rather than a later S..If that makes sense ? there was a later S as well if my memory serves me.
N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 19th January 08:14
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 19th January 08:15
It depends on what you want to race for me...being based in Mallorca with some lovely roads I can race every month on closed roads, however if I want to do international events like the Monte Carlo historic rally in January then this one is FIA and the need for papers is key. I can't think of anything more beautiful to take the car through the roads of Europe and end up in Monaco ..... Just has to be done..... Knowing that the TVR is going to be probably the only one and driving my other TVR's and people curious about what it is for me is a big privilege.... we all have our desires and purposes for such cars...mine is to let the world know about these cars and the good old English history behind them
It depends on what you want to race for me...being based in Mallorca with some lovely roads I can race every month on closed roads, however if I want to do international events like the Monte Carlo historic rally in January then this one is FIA and the need for papers is key. I can't think of anything more beautiful to take the car through the roads of Europe and end up in Monaco ..... Just has to be done..... Knowing that the TVR is going to be probably the only one and driving my other TVR's and people curious about what it is for me is a big privilege.... we all have our desires and purposes for such cars...mine is to let the world know about these cars and the good old English history behind them
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