Ed Stephens / Brian Hough racer against my ceiling
Discussion
You get a good view of the old track (with the sleepers still) in this video:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTBgnCanJo
Gregor Marshall said:
You get a good view of the old track (with the sleepers still) in this video:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTBgnCanJo
Wow !!!Gregor Marshall said:
You get a good view of the old track (with the sleepers still) in this video:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTBgnCanJo
Mother hubbard - that thing looks "Interesting" to drive.That is the shorter Foster track though - mind Bertha on the long track into Knickerbrook would have been butt hole tightening.
Christ those barrier are close and like you say way to may are sleeper (EEK)!
I'm happy the chicanes are there. Roll on 7th May
Although it was a long time ago I was a mechanic for my late friend Cris White. At no time was there any mention of a wheel coming off and hitting another car. As a witness I attended the inquest into the accident and nobody at the inquest said anything about the car losing a wheel.
This included the police who inspected the car after the accident and the circuit representatives.
When I collected the car after its release from the police inspection all wheels were on the car and if my memory is correct there was no sign of any damage to indicate a wheel had come off.
Many years later I spoke with another driver about it and he remembered the accident well again he made no mention re the wheel.
This included the police who inspected the car after the accident and the circuit representatives.
When I collected the car after its release from the police inspection all wheels were on the car and if my memory is correct there was no sign of any damage to indicate a wheel had come off.
Many years later I spoke with another driver about it and he remembered the accident well again he made no mention re the wheel.
barry adams said:
Although it was a long time ago I was a mechanic for my late friend Cris White. At no time was there any mention of a wheel coming off and hitting another car. As a witness I attended the inquest into the accident and nobody at the inquest said anything about the car losing a wheel.
This included the police who inspected the car after the accident and the circuit representatives.
When I collected the car after its release from the police inspection all wheels were on the car and if my memory is correct there was no sign of any damage to indicate a wheel had come off.
Many years later I spoke with another driver about it and he remembered the accident well again he made no mention re the wheel.
Hi Barry,This included the police who inspected the car after the accident and the circuit representatives.
When I collected the car after its release from the police inspection all wheels were on the car and if my memory is correct there was no sign of any damage to indicate a wheel had come off.
Many years later I spoke with another driver about it and he remembered the accident well again he made no mention re the wheel.
Welcome to the PH TVR classics forum.
Adrian@
Just a few notes with regards to Chris Whites and his car.
Chris bought the car which had been used for hill climbing and was his road car as well.
After a little while he started taking it to Santa Pod for a blast up the strip.
Next was a foray into hill climbs and then on to the track ( blue circle mod sports )
He bought an early ex J.W.Automotive GT40 engine ( 2 bolt block mondello heads ) about 390 bhp.
We fitted that and also wider wheels with extended arches. The E type rad was marginal so one from a March grand prix car was fitted this was fully ducted and worked really well. He was getting quicker and starting to get places plus the first win.
After the fatal crash at Oulton Park his parents asked me to see to the disposal of the car.
The chassis was cut up and used to reinforce a concrete garage base, all the body work was burnt.
The engine,box and all usable parts were sold to one person. All damaged suspect parts were disposed of to the local scrap yard. I do not know what happened to the log book but as his parents are now deceased I guess that it would have been thrown away. The chassis plats was buried as well.
Chris bought the car which had been used for hill climbing and was his road car as well.
After a little while he started taking it to Santa Pod for a blast up the strip.
Next was a foray into hill climbs and then on to the track ( blue circle mod sports )
He bought an early ex J.W.Automotive GT40 engine ( 2 bolt block mondello heads ) about 390 bhp.
We fitted that and also wider wheels with extended arches. The E type rad was marginal so one from a March grand prix car was fitted this was fully ducted and worked really well. He was getting quicker and starting to get places plus the first win.
After the fatal crash at Oulton Park his parents asked me to see to the disposal of the car.
The chassis was cut up and used to reinforce a concrete garage base, all the body work was burnt.
The engine,box and all usable parts were sold to one person. All damaged suspect parts were disposed of to the local scrap yard. I do not know what happened to the log book but as his parents are now deceased I guess that it would have been thrown away. The chassis plats was buried as well.
Barry Adams said:
Just a few notes with regards to Chris Whites and his car.
Chris bought the car which had been used for hill climbing and was his road car as well.
After a little while he started taking it to Santa Pod for a blast up the strip.
Next was a foray into hill climbs and then on to the track ( blue circle mod sports )
He bought an early ex J.W.Automotive GT40 engine ( 2 bolt block mondello heads ) about 390 bhp.
We fitted that and also wider wheels with extended arches. The E type rad was marginal so one from a March grand prix car was fitted this was fully ducted and worked really well. He was getting quicker and starting to get places plus the first win.
After the fatal crash at Oulton Park his parents asked me to see to the disposal of the car.
The chassis was cut up and used to reinforce a concrete garage base, all the body work was burnt.
The engine,box and all usable parts were sold to one person. All damaged suspect parts were disposed of to the local scrap yard. I do not know what happened to the log book but as his parents are now deceased I guess that it would have been thrown away. The chassis plats was buried as well.
Barry, Chris bought the car which had been used for hill climbing and was his road car as well.
After a little while he started taking it to Santa Pod for a blast up the strip.
Next was a foray into hill climbs and then on to the track ( blue circle mod sports )
He bought an early ex J.W.Automotive GT40 engine ( 2 bolt block mondello heads ) about 390 bhp.
We fitted that and also wider wheels with extended arches. The E type rad was marginal so one from a March grand prix car was fitted this was fully ducted and worked really well. He was getting quicker and starting to get places plus the first win.
After the fatal crash at Oulton Park his parents asked me to see to the disposal of the car.
The chassis was cut up and used to reinforce a concrete garage base, all the body work was burnt.
The engine,box and all usable parts were sold to one person. All damaged suspect parts were disposed of to the local scrap yard. I do not know what happened to the log book but as his parents are now deceased I guess that it would have been thrown away. The chassis plats was buried as well.
Thanks for filling in the gaps in the story.
What was the reasoning behind cutting the car up? Was it based on his parents wanting to destroy a painful reminder? Was it related to any superstitions? This is strange to me, and very interesting. Also, it opens the door to the other car* still existing, unless someone can say with certainty they were involved in cutting IT up, as well.
(*) The car Brian Hough was killed in, at Thruxton.
Best,
B.
Consider that it, too, would benefit from modern rubber (at least), then come cams/cylinder heads, valve springs, shocks,...
One way to guesstimate, would be to see the lap times the most competitive vintage F1 cars are pulling on circuits that are still the same as they were in period. The (2nd) Hough car had as much in common with a period F1 car, as it did with any Griff. It should be the same, when compared to the two today, as well.
One way to guesstimate, would be to see the lap times the most competitive vintage F1 cars are pulling on circuits that are still the same as they were in period. The (2nd) Hough car had as much in common with a period F1 car, as it did with any Griff. It should be the same, when compared to the two today, as well.
jellison said:
I wonder how the Hough car would have stcked up against the Top fia / super tuned Griffs and Tuscan that are being built now.
Things moved on. Even with less rubber I think most likely as fast or faster now.
I very much doubt it. straight line speed perhaps but the Bigland Built Racer was a very very special chassis, with very wide slicks, can am based suspension and very trick parts all put together by a very very knowlegable and brilliant engineer. I don't think the Fia cars of today running historic tyres would be anywhere near the lap times that this car would be putting down round circuits.Things moved on. Even with less rubber I think most likely as fast or faster now.
N.
Slow M said:
Barry,
Thanks for filling in the gaps in the story.
What was the reasoning behind cutting the car up? Was it based on his parents wanting to destroy a painful reminder? Was it related to any superstitions? This is strange to me, and very interesting. Also, it opens the door to the other car* still existing, unless someone can say with certainty they were involved in cutting IT up, as well.
(*) The car Brian Hough was killed in, at Thruxton.
Best,
B.
The car went in backwards at very high speed. In order to attend to Chris the roof of the car was removed. Such was the chassis and body damage it was a major write off. In accordance with his parents wishes the chassis was cut up and totally destroyed. likewise the body work.Thanks for filling in the gaps in the story.
What was the reasoning behind cutting the car up? Was it based on his parents wanting to destroy a painful reminder? Was it related to any superstitions? This is strange to me, and very interesting. Also, it opens the door to the other car* still existing, unless someone can say with certainty they were involved in cutting IT up, as well.
(*) The car Brian Hough was killed in, at Thruxton.
Best,
B.
As I said before very little of the original parts were sold off most were scrapped. The only major part which may well of been on the car from new was the gearbox which was sold with the engine.
The car can never be recreated There were lots of small and not so small things on the car which were totally unique as they were done by us as the car was developed. Some are very visible if you managed to get period photographs, others were not.
Regards
Barry
From what I can see of the chassis, it look like a combination of earlier cars (outer rails) and later (more M style) central and upper parts. Actually it looks ALOT like the later M.
Looks like formula rear uprights (T70 or similar - alot of Mod saloons of the period were doing the same) on the rear, but Trumph on the front (adapted for big vented discs - and period formular of the period Big twin pot calipers). But ditched the twin rear dampers (again more M style), had rear disc's though (which is a fairly easy mod).
The cage holding the diff in is pretty much what most of the reallu fast fia and other Griffs run now. Rose jointed wishbones all round.
Looking at the big arches the EHM Paul Clone fia one they run now are if anything even bigger at the front and maybe not much less pumped up at the back and less of that straight out look. So you could get big rubber under these type arches (you could get 8" under the older style ones).
On the engine side. Bigger than 289 obviously. Think I read it was 331. So on the heads that were around in the early 70's, I'd guess about 450 to maybe max 480bhp. Front and reat outlets for the headers go over the top chassis rail and midle one inside), so footwells must have been cutback to get better flowing headers in (alot do this now).
So a Modern really well tweeked fia or non fia car could have all these mods fairly easily, then put on the widest tyres 1b or slicks you could get under there, I think you'd be in the ball park, longer final drive for smaller diameter tyres to compensate for the gearing change).
Box is a Toploader from the pics.
Looks like formula rear uprights (T70 or similar - alot of Mod saloons of the period were doing the same) on the rear, but Trumph on the front (adapted for big vented discs - and period formular of the period Big twin pot calipers). But ditched the twin rear dampers (again more M style), had rear disc's though (which is a fairly easy mod).
The cage holding the diff in is pretty much what most of the reallu fast fia and other Griffs run now. Rose jointed wishbones all round.
Looking at the big arches the EHM Paul Clone fia one they run now are if anything even bigger at the front and maybe not much less pumped up at the back and less of that straight out look. So you could get big rubber under these type arches (you could get 8" under the older style ones).
On the engine side. Bigger than 289 obviously. Think I read it was 331. So on the heads that were around in the early 70's, I'd guess about 450 to maybe max 480bhp. Front and reat outlets for the headers go over the top chassis rail and midle one inside), so footwells must have been cutback to get better flowing headers in (alot do this now).
So a Modern really well tweeked fia or non fia car could have all these mods fairly easily, then put on the widest tyres 1b or slicks you could get under there, I think you'd be in the ball park, longer final drive for smaller diameter tyres to compensate for the gearing change).
Box is a Toploader from the pics.
Edited by jellison on Tuesday 10th January 11:21
This is Chris White's TVR at Silverstone on 15th April 1974, taken at Copse Corner.
As Barry Adams has said there was no mention of a wheel coming off Chris's car went it crashed. As the other mechancic in Chris White's pits I went across country to the crash scene to see the crews working on Chris and the car had all wheels attached. When the car was recovered to the paddock I was in attenance (Barry had gone to hospital to make a formal ID of Chris)and can say that the four wheels were all attached.
As Barry Adams has said there was no mention of a wheel coming off Chris's car went it crashed. As the other mechancic in Chris White's pits I went across country to the crash scene to see the crews working on Chris and the car had all wheels attached. When the car was recovered to the paddock I was in attenance (Barry had gone to hospital to make a formal ID of Chris)and can say that the four wheels were all attached.
rdHancock said:
This is Chris White's TVR at Silverstone on 15th April 1974, taken at Copse Corner.
As Barry Adams has said there was no mention of a wheel coming off Chris's car went it crashed. As the other mechancic in Chris White's pits I went across country to the crash scene to see the crews working on Chris and the car had all wheels attached. When the car was recovered to the paddock I was in attenance (Barry had gone to hospital to make a formal ID of Chris)and can say that the four wheels were all attached.
Hello Robin.As Barry Adams has said there was no mention of a wheel coming off Chris's car went it crashed. As the other mechancic in Chris White's pits I went across country to the crash scene to see the crews working on Chris and the car had all wheels attached. When the car was recovered to the paddock I was in attenance (Barry had gone to hospital to make a formal ID of Chris)and can say that the four wheels were all attached.
Forgive me since I may have missed any discussion of wheels falling off cars elsewhere. I believe the original discussion regarded the demise of the Brian Hough car which I belived crashed due to a brake caliper coming loose and causing the brakes to grab and car subsequently loosing control.
Regardless Thanks for both you and Barry setting the record straight which I know will still be something you both won't like particularly discussing.
The Old TVR Hotshoes certainly were something else to see.
Thats a very rare shot of Chris's car. and I don't think many exist. Thanks for posting.
Neil.
heightswitch said:
jellison said:
God those rear tyres are Huge.
Another reason why the Hough car is on a different planet with respect to lap times Jon.I believe at the time Formula 5000 tyres and slicks were deriguer.
N.
I'd have wanted those arches alot more gently flared to cover the huge tyres (dare I say it like the EHM Paul car but more so (at the back (front on that easily big enough(!))).
I'm no fan of fia, like my mods but no fan of those sort of sticky out stuff!
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