Attempts to Import a Tamora to the USA
Discussion
so called said:
I spy an S6 
This cars been in the US for a while now as has this one ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTvcB-1dRUw
which sounds like an S6 to me.
Could have been a tourist import, i.e. in for a year then exported. No problem bringing one in if you go that route...This cars been in the US for a while now as has this one ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTvcB-1dRUw
which sounds like an S6 to me.
dvs_dave said:
You're probably thinking about OBD2 compliance? If it's registered as a kit/specially constructed vehicle this isn't a requirement.
Parts wise the TVR world is well catered for what with the internet and parts not being expensive. A far cry from trying to source old roller parts that's for sure! Also TVR's are simple things so are not hard to fix or maintain. Again the internet makes this a lot easier.
OBD2 - yes, that's the one. I had good long talks with the mod shop in Houston cross referenced to talks with HHC and we collectively couldn't get round that.Parts wise the TVR world is well catered for what with the internet and parts not being expensive. A far cry from trying to source old roller parts that's for sure! Also TVR's are simple things so are not hard to fix or maintain. Again the internet makes this a lot easier.
Edited by dvs_dave on Monday 2nd July 06:12
I wouldn't be too sure about internet parts as presumably they'd ship from the UK to the US? Even registered parcels aren't quick to get over or accuately ETA'd. I had problems with my Roller and they imported them over here (there are two garages in Houston that look after old rollers - and it was still a pain). One of the biggest problems with 'modern' TVRs is that TVR never imported them which apparently makes them the subject of special attention at the EPA.
What ruled importing out for me were the following:
- Extent of changes to the car to federalise it - I felt they'd ruin the car
- TVR's aren't suited to US roads, distances or temperatures - 'good' AC is a must in Houston
- The 'parts' factor - you try getting it fixed at even the most savy of rod shops
If you do crack it (and do it i.e. not just as a paper exercise), you must let some key people know (like Tony at HHC as I know he's been looking at it for years and has come to the same depressing conclusion as me). I even went as far as contacting TVR club america and they gave all the same points and ended up recommending that I buy a Canadian registered Griffith they had...
Why not find a nice SEAC and import that under the 25+ year old rule (which means you have to comply with diddly squat
)fatbutt said:
so called said:
I spy an S6
This cars been in the US for a while now as has this one ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTvcB-1dRUw
which sounds like an S6 to me.
Could have been a tourist import, i.e. in for a year then exported. No problem bringing one in if you go that route...This cars been in the US for a while now as has this one ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTvcB-1dRUw
which sounds like an S6 to me.
No definitely not a tourist import, we've been following this car for 18 months on here ....
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by so called on Wednesday 4th July 12:11
so called said:
Hi Fatbutt,
No definitely not a tourist import, we've been following this car for 18 months on here ....
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Ah, right. Thats the one that I saw in an add a good few months ago in the US equivalent of Top Marques - was advertised for over $100K.No definitely not a tourist import, we've been following this car for 18 months on here ....
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by so called on Wednesday 4th July 12:11
dvs_dave said:
Indeed it does. However if you make certain minor alterations to it and re-manufacture it in the USA with an appropriate MSO you can then sell/buy it as a "new" car. Roisson are a wholly US operation who just happen to get their parts from Noble and assemble them with a locally sourced engine and their own MSO.
I am friends with a few Roisson owners here in FL,they are titled as ASPT (Assembled from parts) and there model name is ASPT, not rooisson. that car even nobel was titled differently in differnt states. I knew of one titled with the nobel brand name but was givin a new vin. I knew of one branded as ASPT but the factory serial 6 or 7 digit # was used as a vin.TamoraRob,
yes it can be done. There are a few caveats.
For the HS-7 temporary import, you need to be on a temporary visa. This is exchange student, student, visitor, intracompany transfer, diplomatic or military posting, temporary employment, or business visa. Green card or spouse visa would not work. You should ship the car over before you change your visa status. It is a one-time import for one year.
As your spouse/fiance visa is a permanent immigration classsification, you might want to consider shipping the car into Canada. You will legitimately be a visitor there, and you can legitimately bring in your car for a temporary driving holiday. From there, it's barely a day's drive down to New Orleans. When you do a land border crossing, they do not check the car's paperwork. However, your car will be "out of status" while in the US, as you are not eligible for temporary import while on spouse visa category. So you might want to put it on a trailer and tow it to New Orleans.
Once in the US, you need to look into the requirements for your state for assembled vehicles, and do whatever it takes to legally register it as an assembled car. If you have to buy a chassis, or modify yours, do so in as minimally invasive a manner as possible. Most people give up, but if you are persistent about it, and methodical, it's doable. Go for something over 25 years old, so you don't have to worry about OBD2 compliance, as that will require a different motor.
Getting parts is no problem, though shipping can be expensive for bigger/heavier parts. Most parts are readily available, and things like fuel pumps, etc., are all easy to find. Finding local mechanics to fix it is also no problem--some will be hacks, some won't, and eventually you will know who to trust. Good mechanics can take one look at a TVR part like a starter or electrical connector, and tell you it's a Nissan part or a Ford part, and from there it's a matter of tracking it down in a parts directory with pictures.
Until you sort it out, enjoy it on the track.
Faisal Khan's website and email are no longer active, it seems. Last I heard, on a McLaren forum, he was putting in some other motor and his Cerbie was off the road. It is still in the US, and he is active in local car circles to some extent, but has moved on from cars to airplanes.
Post pics of your car in the US.
yes it can be done. There are a few caveats.
For the HS-7 temporary import, you need to be on a temporary visa. This is exchange student, student, visitor, intracompany transfer, diplomatic or military posting, temporary employment, or business visa. Green card or spouse visa would not work. You should ship the car over before you change your visa status. It is a one-time import for one year.
As your spouse/fiance visa is a permanent immigration classsification, you might want to consider shipping the car into Canada. You will legitimately be a visitor there, and you can legitimately bring in your car for a temporary driving holiday. From there, it's barely a day's drive down to New Orleans. When you do a land border crossing, they do not check the car's paperwork. However, your car will be "out of status" while in the US, as you are not eligible for temporary import while on spouse visa category. So you might want to put it on a trailer and tow it to New Orleans.
Once in the US, you need to look into the requirements for your state for assembled vehicles, and do whatever it takes to legally register it as an assembled car. If you have to buy a chassis, or modify yours, do so in as minimally invasive a manner as possible. Most people give up, but if you are persistent about it, and methodical, it's doable. Go for something over 25 years old, so you don't have to worry about OBD2 compliance, as that will require a different motor.
Getting parts is no problem, though shipping can be expensive for bigger/heavier parts. Most parts are readily available, and things like fuel pumps, etc., are all easy to find. Finding local mechanics to fix it is also no problem--some will be hacks, some won't, and eventually you will know who to trust. Good mechanics can take one look at a TVR part like a starter or electrical connector, and tell you it's a Nissan part or a Ford part, and from there it's a matter of tracking it down in a parts directory with pictures.
Until you sort it out, enjoy it on the track.
Faisal Khan's website and email are no longer active, it seems. Last I heard, on a McLaren forum, he was putting in some other motor and his Cerbie was off the road. It is still in the US, and he is active in local car circles to some extent, but has moved on from cars to airplanes.
Post pics of your car in the US.
Edited by just me on Friday 6th July 02:24
But if you bring your car into the US on foreign tags and you have permanent res/US passport that is surely going to raise some very officious border control eyebrows? If it's on a trailer would they not then want to see the car's paperwork as you would most definitely appear to be importing a vehicle from Canada into the USA?
I could see it working if the car was in a state of disassembly (i.e no engine/trans, wheels, etc) as then all you'd need to provide would be a bill of sale for the "parts" you're importing that you'd then pay import duty on. You could then go back and fetch the engine and other bits that you'd taken out and again provide an appropriate bill of sale for the parts.
I could see it working if the car was in a state of disassembly (i.e no engine/trans, wheels, etc) as then all you'd need to provide would be a bill of sale for the "parts" you're importing that you'd then pay import duty on. You could then go back and fetch the engine and other bits that you'd taken out and again provide an appropriate bill of sale for the parts.
No. You are overthinking it. If you drive in, they do not check the car's paperwork, just yours. They just look at your passports, etc. Besides, you will have paperwork showing its legitimacy in Canada. That's all they will need. Cars in legal status in Canada can be driven in to the US, as long as they have insurance coverage. Again, they do not check this specifically. And again, if they do, you will have arranged for US insurance cover beforehand (sorry, I should have mentioned this, thought it was obvious), so it's not an issue. You can also say you are taking it in to the US to get mechanical work done at a specialist shop. Cars cross borders to go to specialists all the time.
Then, once you are in the US, you put it on a trailer. Or you can even get temporary "tags" for cars that you are attempting to register, but have not completed the procedure on. So you either trailer it to your destination, or, if you have arranged for the temporary tags beforehand, you drive it on that. Then you can simply not complete the registration, because obviously you won't succeed in registering it as is.
Then you work on the kit car/remanufactured car/whatever procedure. One step at a time.
Yes, you could also import it in from Canada in pieces. I had not thought of that. No restrictions on that. At most you would have to pay duty on stated values.
Also, re. the earlier question about how it could be sent to Canada, I should have said, the owner needs to go to Canada as a legitimate tourist. This is not something that can be done remotely. You need to be there to pick up your car and you need to be in Canada as a tourist. Sorry, I assumed that was obvious and it's not.
Then, once you are in the US, you put it on a trailer. Or you can even get temporary "tags" for cars that you are attempting to register, but have not completed the procedure on. So you either trailer it to your destination, or, if you have arranged for the temporary tags beforehand, you drive it on that. Then you can simply not complete the registration, because obviously you won't succeed in registering it as is.
Then you work on the kit car/remanufactured car/whatever procedure. One step at a time.
Yes, you could also import it in from Canada in pieces. I had not thought of that. No restrictions on that. At most you would have to pay duty on stated values.
Also, re. the earlier question about how it could be sent to Canada, I should have said, the owner needs to go to Canada as a legitimate tourist. This is not something that can be done remotely. You need to be there to pick up your car and you need to be in Canada as a tourist. Sorry, I assumed that was obvious and it's not.
Edited by just me on Saturday 7th July 02:29
DonkeyApple said:
I guess this doesn't help in the case of a mint original Tiv but does the kit car rule mean that you could get someone like TopCats to do an LS conversion without drive train, import the car and then fit engine and running gear locally?
If this were the case I imagine quite a few cars would be lost to the US?
If it has an LS motor in it, you could import it complete, as a kit car. It's a US-legal engine, with ODB2, so far as I know. It's what corvettes have, right? You could also ship it in as parts and fit things locally, but why would you want to? Besides, I called Top Cats about this--they are not interested in anything but turnkey installations. No halfway jobs for them.If this were the case I imagine quite a few cars would be lost to the US?
Thanks for all the advice I have received. Unfortunately due to all the potentials for failure, expense and questionable legality I have decided against importing the Tvr to the states. I have since bought a Boxster S which I intend to bring over instead-I'll post pics later. It's rhd but as these are manufactured in the US as well I am assuming I can import it without all the hassle!
Not to deviate from the original subject too much, but I have researched it and what I understand is I can ship it (RORO service quoted at £950) pay import tax (2.5% £250 on the porsche) and just get it titled over there. Is this correct?
Gutted to be leaving the Tvr behind but think this is a much better route- any experience with this would be greatly appreciated. Once again, thanks for all the advice thus far!
Not to deviate from the original subject too much, but I have researched it and what I understand is I can ship it (RORO service quoted at £950) pay import tax (2.5% £250 on the porsche) and just get it titled over there. Is this correct?
Gutted to be leaving the Tvr behind but think this is a much better route- any experience with this would be greatly appreciated. Once again, thanks for all the advice thus far!
Google Registered Importers and contact one of them. They are the ones who can help you. I suspect that the time and expense involved for the conversion and shipping and duties will make you wish you had just bought a car in the US...and you still can. Just sell this one when the time comes and buy another in the US.
Cheers 'just me'. I'll give them a bell tomorrow and see what they say. The one I have bought has £20k worth of factory extras, it really is a one off which would cost a fortune to replicate. I'll post some pics if it ever stops raining!
Don't intend to convert it to LHD, I'm hoping I can take it across as is. With shipping/insurance and import tax I've worked it out to circa £1500. This, with what I paid for mine, is suprisingly still cheaper than buying even the factory equivalent year and mileage vehicle stateside. I did get it for a great price!
What does an RI actually do? As they manufacture porsches stateside I didn't think I'd need to mess around with all that stuff! I think my Porsche is listed on the 'eligible vehicles for import' list.
I haven't even looked into the export procedure from the uk. I believe I require an export cert of some kind?
Don't intend to convert it to LHD, I'm hoping I can take it across as is. With shipping/insurance and import tax I've worked it out to circa £1500. This, with what I paid for mine, is suprisingly still cheaper than buying even the factory equivalent year and mileage vehicle stateside. I did get it for a great price!
What does an RI actually do? As they manufacture porsches stateside I didn't think I'd need to mess around with all that stuff! I think my Porsche is listed on the 'eligible vehicles for import' list.
I haven't even looked into the export procedure from the uk. I believe I require an export cert of some kind?
Don't be so sure that a US manufactured vehicle can be easily titled in the US, there was a guy in the viper club who had a lot of hassle taking his EU spec Viper to the US as it was manufactured as an export model so it didn't have the correct paperwork/stickers to get it titled in the US.
If your not trying to get something special into the US then just buy locally
If your not trying to get something special into the US then just buy locally
TamoraRob, I hope you don't have problems with importing your Porsche.
Porsches are not manufactured stateside. They are made in Germany and Finland. Porsche imports them into the US. It manufactures cars for different markets and there are differences between the cars destined for different markets. Some Korean and Japanese manufacturers do manufacture "world cars" but most of the other mfrs divide it up into specific markets, or America/other combined markets/ROW (rest of world).
Mfrs are very reluctant to help with private imports because they do not want arbitrage opportunities to cut into their dealers' markets (imagine some folks rushing into Greece and scooping up cars at the dealers and importing them into the US).
Plus, there is the liability issue when it comes to the US. They don't want any nonconforming vehicles on the road, so will not generally help with the paperwork needed. Left hand versus right hand is not the issue per se, though it could be cited as one reason they don't want to help (doesn't hold much water, as it's obvious many UK cars are driven on the continent, but they could cite the US as being a different set of circumstances). Ferrari has actively tried to prevent people from importing cars destined for other markets into the US.
A Registered Importer has the qualifications necessary to act as an agent and legalize a non-conforming car to the US market, if it is possible to do so. They are aware of the governing laws, and familiar with the testing and modification and certification procedures needed. Unless you have similar resources at your disposal, you need to go through them to permanently import a vehicle, which requires converting it to US-spec, or getting it imported under one of the exception clauses on form HS-7. With respect to Porsche, I have only heard of Porsche GT1s and 959s undergoing conversions to meet US emissions requirements and being approved for an HS-7 exemption (show and display). All other models would therefore have to be compliant with safety and emissions laws in effect at the time of the vehicle's manufacture. Obviously, modifying and testing vehicles is expensive. I doubt it would make sense for your car even if you got it for free, but they will be better able to tell you. There is always the chance that your car already complies and they can do the necessary testing and certification quickly and cheaply. That would take 3 months or so, and that is the best possible outcome--minor to no modifications needed, and a RI willing to undertake the work for you.
You don't need anything except proof of ownership to export a vehicle from the UK. DVLA just want to make sure you are not exporting a stolen vehicle.
For specific definitions and authoritative answers, you might also want to call the NHTSA, OVSC (Office of Vehicle Safety and Compliance) and get an email address. They are generally very quick to respond and obviously have the latest information.
Wallace Labs and NHTSA, start there.
Porsches are not manufactured stateside. They are made in Germany and Finland. Porsche imports them into the US. It manufactures cars for different markets and there are differences between the cars destined for different markets. Some Korean and Japanese manufacturers do manufacture "world cars" but most of the other mfrs divide it up into specific markets, or America/other combined markets/ROW (rest of world).
Mfrs are very reluctant to help with private imports because they do not want arbitrage opportunities to cut into their dealers' markets (imagine some folks rushing into Greece and scooping up cars at the dealers and importing them into the US).
Plus, there is the liability issue when it comes to the US. They don't want any nonconforming vehicles on the road, so will not generally help with the paperwork needed. Left hand versus right hand is not the issue per se, though it could be cited as one reason they don't want to help (doesn't hold much water, as it's obvious many UK cars are driven on the continent, but they could cite the US as being a different set of circumstances). Ferrari has actively tried to prevent people from importing cars destined for other markets into the US.
A Registered Importer has the qualifications necessary to act as an agent and legalize a non-conforming car to the US market, if it is possible to do so. They are aware of the governing laws, and familiar with the testing and modification and certification procedures needed. Unless you have similar resources at your disposal, you need to go through them to permanently import a vehicle, which requires converting it to US-spec, or getting it imported under one of the exception clauses on form HS-7. With respect to Porsche, I have only heard of Porsche GT1s and 959s undergoing conversions to meet US emissions requirements and being approved for an HS-7 exemption (show and display). All other models would therefore have to be compliant with safety and emissions laws in effect at the time of the vehicle's manufacture. Obviously, modifying and testing vehicles is expensive. I doubt it would make sense for your car even if you got it for free, but they will be better able to tell you. There is always the chance that your car already complies and they can do the necessary testing and certification quickly and cheaply. That would take 3 months or so, and that is the best possible outcome--minor to no modifications needed, and a RI willing to undertake the work for you.
You don't need anything except proof of ownership to export a vehicle from the UK. DVLA just want to make sure you are not exporting a stolen vehicle.
For specific definitions and authoritative answers, you might also want to call the NHTSA, OVSC (Office of Vehicle Safety and Compliance) and get an email address. They are generally very quick to respond and obviously have the latest information.
Wallace Labs and NHTSA, start there.
Edited by just me on Sunday 8th July 11:48
TamoraRob said:
Thanks for all the advice I have received. Unfortunately due to all the potentials for failure, expense and questionable legality I have decided against importing the Tvr to the states. I have since bought a Boxster S which I intend to bring over instead-I'll post pics later. It's rhd but as these are manufactured in the US as well I am assuming I can import it without all the hassle!
Not to deviate from the original subject too much, but I have researched it and what I understand is I can ship it (RORO service quoted at £950) pay import tax (2.5% £250 on the porsche) and just get it titled over there. Is this correct?
Gutted to be leaving the Tvr behind but think this is a much better route- any experience with this would be greatly appreciated. Once again, thanks for all the advice thus far!
Importing your new porsche will be even harder than the tiv. In order to get it through the door you will need to get a letter of conformity from porsche directly that states the vehicle meets all USA/EPA regs etc. You will need to make a application to nhtsa to import based on the letter of conformity from porsche. Once you have this sorted your import will be easy......however porsche will not give you the letter, so that kind of ends what you started. UNLESS you want to import using an ICI and RI to get conversions done to the porsche to meet regs etc. This will be time consuming and costly.Not to deviate from the original subject too much, but I have researched it and what I understand is I can ship it (RORO service quoted at £950) pay import tax (2.5% £250 on the porsche) and just get it titled over there. Is this correct?
Gutted to be leaving the Tvr behind but think this is a much better route- any experience with this would be greatly appreciated. Once again, thanks for all the advice thus far!
The US has some of the most utterly stupid regulation when it comes to cars, welcome to the minefield of US car importation
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