Sagaris in the US??
Discussion
Andy chimaera said:
s2art said:
The only reason the new Corvette isnt selling like hot cakes in the UK is that they put the steering wheel on the wrong side.
and they arent very good cars technically either, that helps, is it the live real axle or leaf springs at the rear one or the other lol we like cars that handle over hereHi Everyone,
Lots of very good info in this thread. Going back on topic, I've been looking towards finding a way to import a Sagaris into the country for a rather very long time and now that purchasing one is financially a reality for me I would really like to make it happen. It appears that the only reasonably legal way to do it is import it under HS-7. The question I have for all of you is does one have to be a citizen of the UK to import under HS-7 or is it possible being a citizen of another country in the EU (which I am). Would I for example be theoretically be able to take a trip to the UK, purchase a Sagaris, take it across the channel, drive to my home country and import to the US from there under an HS-7 ?
Regards,
Mario
Lots of very good info in this thread. Going back on topic, I've been looking towards finding a way to import a Sagaris into the country for a rather very long time and now that purchasing one is financially a reality for me I would really like to make it happen. It appears that the only reasonably legal way to do it is import it under HS-7. The question I have for all of you is does one have to be a citizen of the UK to import under HS-7 or is it possible being a citizen of another country in the EU (which I am). Would I for example be theoretically be able to take a trip to the UK, purchase a Sagaris, take it across the channel, drive to my home country and import to the US from there under an HS-7 ?
Regards,
Mario
Mario my understanding from fellow ph member Faisal (iirc) is that what you describe could work for one year. I'm not sure what additional paper work you need or will receive after filling out the HS-7 for you circumstances. It would last one year and exempt you from virtually all regs here. Even California from what I remember. Just before the one year mark you might be able to drive to Canada or Mexico with the car and re-approve it for another year. That was my understand of what Faisal was doing with his Cerb.
PiB said:
Mario my understanding from fellow ph member Faisal (iirc) is that what you describe could work for one year. I'm not sure what additional paper work you need or will receive after filling out the HS-7 for you circumstances. It would last one year and exempt you from virtually all regs here. Even California from what I remember. Just before the one year mark you might be able to drive to Canada or Mexico with the car and re-approve it for another year. That was my understand of what Faisal was doing with his Cerb.
Here's an article that talks about Faisal and his HS7 endeavours in California (non-resident 1yr import):http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/features/usa/
Sounds like the insurance might be almost as tricky/expensive as the act of importing. Something I hadn't really considered when looking into this myself.
Here's the detail from the US authorities regarding importing for a year as non-resident (Exemptions section, point 1):
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/basic_trade/impor...
This is unrelated to importing for driving on the streets, but here's a pdf (March '11) which states that Sagaris, T350, Tuscan and Cerbera are not eligible for import for show or display. Hadn't seen this mentioned anywhere on PH so thought I'd share:
http://stnw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/sdlist0401...
I'm not sure if the "Show and Display" would be the route a foreigner would want to take because it limits miles per year. I think any car could still be imported temporary if it's done by a foreigner and be legally driven. Also *I think* there are specialist insurers would would insure these types of cars.
I haven't studied this in a long time so I may be wrong or the rules may have changed. For residents who want unusual foreign cars not imported here it seemed to me you have to hire the right people the bureaucrats are already familiar with. With a big wad of $$$ almost anything is possible - if not drive only on track. I was told by a sales man at Canepa Design that they could get a variety of non-usa compliant cars to pass through - but he was also a sales man. There's no evidence of them handling later model vehicles just 959's and some older RS porsches which being over 25 years can fly through.
I'm sure any Americans on here have heard the outrageous actions the Fed took against the R32 GTR that were grey marketed here. Most were confiscated and destroyed afaik. But lets not forget how easy and legal it is to import a rolling chassis into the usa and then install any kind of domestically built engine - Ultima GTR. So in a non-smog check state/city one could potentially have a really wild car - and people do. But no TVR. We do have Caterhams, Morgans, a few dare Ginettas, G20's, . . .
I haven't studied this in a long time so I may be wrong or the rules may have changed. For residents who want unusual foreign cars not imported here it seemed to me you have to hire the right people the bureaucrats are already familiar with. With a big wad of $$$ almost anything is possible - if not drive only on track. I was told by a sales man at Canepa Design that they could get a variety of non-usa compliant cars to pass through - but he was also a sales man. There's no evidence of them handling later model vehicles just 959's and some older RS porsches which being over 25 years can fly through.
I'm sure any Americans on here have heard the outrageous actions the Fed took against the R32 GTR that were grey marketed here. Most were confiscated and destroyed afaik. But lets not forget how easy and legal it is to import a rolling chassis into the usa and then install any kind of domestically built engine - Ultima GTR. So in a non-smog check state/city one could potentially have a really wild car - and people do. But no TVR. We do have Caterhams, Morgans, a few dare Ginettas, G20's, . . .
benpink said:
Here's the detail from the US authorities regarding importing for a year as non-resident (Exemptions section, point 1):
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/basic_trade/impor...
I didn't notice that snippet before. According to that particular section, if read literally one must be a nonresident to import under hs-7. Being a permanent resident, that would exclude me.http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/basic_trade/impor...
PiB said:
I'm not sure if the "Show and Display" would be the route a foreigner would want to take because it limits miles per year. I think any car could still be imported temporary if it's done by a foreigner and be legally driven. Also *I think* there are specialist insurers would would insure these types of cars.
I haven't studied this in a long time so I may be wrong or the rules may have changed. For residents who want unusual foreign cars not imported here it seemed to me you have to hire the right people the bureaucrats are already familiar with. With a big wad of $$$ almost anything is possible - if not drive only on track. I was told by a sales man at Canepa Design that they could get a variety of non-usa compliant cars to pass through - but he was also a sales man. There's no evidence of them handling later model vehicles just 959's and some older RS porsches which being over 25 years can fly through.
I'm sure any Americans on here have heard the outrageous actions the Fed took against the R32 GTR that were grey marketed here. Most were confiscated and destroyed afaik. But lets not forget how easy and legal it is to import a rolling chassis into the usa and then install any kind of domestically built engine - Ultima GTR. So in a non-smog check state/city one could potentially have a really wild car - and people do. But no TVR. We do have Caterhams, Morgans, a few dare Ginettas, G20's, . . .
I do recall the kaizo (sp?) GTRs being confiscated relatively recently...still feels like a giant waste of time and money on the part of the FED. Is there really nothing better they have to do? I haven't studied this in a long time so I may be wrong or the rules may have changed. For residents who want unusual foreign cars not imported here it seemed to me you have to hire the right people the bureaucrats are already familiar with. With a big wad of $$$ almost anything is possible - if not drive only on track. I was told by a sales man at Canepa Design that they could get a variety of non-usa compliant cars to pass through - but he was also a sales man. There's no evidence of them handling later model vehicles just 959's and some older RS porsches which being over 25 years can fly through.
I'm sure any Americans on here have heard the outrageous actions the Fed took against the R32 GTR that were grey marketed here. Most were confiscated and destroyed afaik. But lets not forget how easy and legal it is to import a rolling chassis into the usa and then install any kind of domestically built engine - Ultima GTR. So in a non-smog check state/city one could potentially have a really wild car - and people do. But no TVR. We do have Caterhams, Morgans, a few dare Ginettas, G20's, . . .
The ultima GTR however brings up another good question or potential route I have been wondering about. How difficult would it be to in fact bring in a TVR rolling chassis and use an LS motor. Being that this chassie/motor combination is now being offered by TVR Motors I would only assume that a few phone calls and wire transfers would be all that's necessary to acquire the re-engineered engine harness, cradle, and other auxilary components to make such a swap a reality.
Mario, it's absolutely horrible how the feds (NHTSA, etc) don't allow these cars to be imported like you once could. I've viewed it as a form of protectionism. There was one of these online Obama signature campaigns to reduce the number of years it takes to import a car freely and legally (barring possible epa issues and California smog issues) from 25 years to iirc 15 years. It failed.
Auto engines are a big no no if they are for on road use. However, a rolling chassis should be done especially if you hire the right people to do it for you. I think it could be done yourself as well if you did your homework.
In part because it is a big beaurocratic mess I think it can be done with the right expertise, time and $$$$. I used to read something called "The Federal Register" and searching through it's hundreds and hundreds of pages there were success and failure import stories. At one point there were a lot of grey market Ferrari F360's coming over. Ferrari themselves didn't like the idea and it was stopped.
Show and display with it's limitations would be the only feasible and somewhat straight forward way a TVR could get here in one piece for a citizen. For a non citizen having any car here is much easier with fewer limitations (1 year is allowed).
But again I haven't visited the issue recently. I've lost the dream. I was told by a sales man at Canepa Design they could import any non-federalized car with some work. He may have just been doing his sales man thing and he may have just been referring to Porsches. I would seriously like to get a left drive rolling chassis of a Ginetta G40 and sb100 it in California. It's been done to Ultima GTR's so . . . .
Auto engines are a big no no if they are for on road use. However, a rolling chassis should be done especially if you hire the right people to do it for you. I think it could be done yourself as well if you did your homework.
In part because it is a big beaurocratic mess I think it can be done with the right expertise, time and $$$$. I used to read something called "The Federal Register" and searching through it's hundreds and hundreds of pages there were success and failure import stories. At one point there were a lot of grey market Ferrari F360's coming over. Ferrari themselves didn't like the idea and it was stopped.
Show and display with it's limitations would be the only feasible and somewhat straight forward way a TVR could get here in one piece for a citizen. For a non citizen having any car here is much easier with fewer limitations (1 year is allowed).
But again I haven't visited the issue recently. I've lost the dream. I was told by a sales man at Canepa Design they could import any non-federalized car with some work. He may have just been doing his sales man thing and he may have just been referring to Porsches. I would seriously like to get a left drive rolling chassis of a Ginetta G40 and sb100 it in California. It's been done to Ultima GTR's so . . . .
It can be done under under the kit car/re-manufactured car regs with the engine and trans being imported separately from the body/chassis, both as "assemblages". Physically the car can be adapted pretty easily, with the main expense being DOT approved glass, wheels/tyres and brake lines.
However the difficulty arises when you come to register the car. You have to provide a manufacturers certificate of origin stating its compliance with DOT "custom vehicle" rules, or demonstrate that it has been sufficiently modified from the original to be classed as a bonafide self built kit car, along with sales invoices, tax and import duty receipts for all the major components. This "proves" that it was not originally a complete manufactured car simply dismantled and re-assembled to circumvent import law, a big no no.
The significant modification route would work if you dropped a US sourced LS in, but to keep it original you'd need to obtain a manufacturers certificate of origin.
There are ways to get one (obviously not a genuine TVR one) but the car is then classified as a newly built custom car manufactured and sold in the USA under the name stated on the manufacturers cert. This means you have to "buy" the car from the manufacturer/dealer, provide a bill of sale and so pay the sales tax on it.
Lastly, it won't be 50 state legal (47 I think?) due to emissions, unless you put an LS in it. Insurance however isn't a problem as its classified as a custom vehicle/hot rod of which there's plenty of insurance providers.
So as a permanent resi it can be done, but it's costly and not very easy.
However the difficulty arises when you come to register the car. You have to provide a manufacturers certificate of origin stating its compliance with DOT "custom vehicle" rules, or demonstrate that it has been sufficiently modified from the original to be classed as a bonafide self built kit car, along with sales invoices, tax and import duty receipts for all the major components. This "proves" that it was not originally a complete manufactured car simply dismantled and re-assembled to circumvent import law, a big no no.
The significant modification route would work if you dropped a US sourced LS in, but to keep it original you'd need to obtain a manufacturers certificate of origin.
There are ways to get one (obviously not a genuine TVR one) but the car is then classified as a newly built custom car manufactured and sold in the USA under the name stated on the manufacturers cert. This means you have to "buy" the car from the manufacturer/dealer, provide a bill of sale and so pay the sales tax on it.
Lastly, it won't be 50 state legal (47 I think?) due to emissions, unless you put an LS in it. Insurance however isn't a problem as its classified as a custom vehicle/hot rod of which there's plenty of insurance providers.
So as a permanent resi it can be done, but it's costly and not very easy.
As a permanent resident, you are not eligible to use the temporary import method on form HS-7.
Your options are:
1. Import as a race car for track use only.
You need to provide
-proof that you engage in racing/on-track activities (SCCA license, for instance)
-proof that the car is really a race-car (roll-cage, extinguisher, slicks, etc.), press coverage, permits, or other racing history
-some evidence of what it cost, so you can be charged the correct duties
2. Import in parts and register it for the street as a kit car.
To do this, you will have to:
- buy the components
- ship them in
- pay shipping and duties on the items you import
- show receipts proving you paid for the installation and assembly of the various components.
Then your "kit car" will undergo a roadworthiness and safety inspection at the division of motor vehicles in the state where you are attempting to register it.
If all goes well, you will be given a title and registration. You may also be assigned a new VIN number.
Insurance for kit cars is readily available, you simply buy a policy for an "agreed upon" value, which you may have to again substantiate through receipts.
Your options are:
1. Import as a race car for track use only.
You need to provide
-proof that you engage in racing/on-track activities (SCCA license, for instance)
-proof that the car is really a race-car (roll-cage, extinguisher, slicks, etc.), press coverage, permits, or other racing history
-some evidence of what it cost, so you can be charged the correct duties
2. Import in parts and register it for the street as a kit car.
To do this, you will have to:
- buy the components
- ship them in
- pay shipping and duties on the items you import
- show receipts proving you paid for the installation and assembly of the various components.
Then your "kit car" will undergo a roadworthiness and safety inspection at the division of motor vehicles in the state where you are attempting to register it.
If all goes well, you will be given a title and registration. You may also be assigned a new VIN number.
Insurance for kit cars is readily available, you simply buy a policy for an "agreed upon" value, which you may have to again substantiate through receipts.
And yet . . . cars like this are "road legal"?
http://www.canepacollection.com/detail-2008-lola-t...
But I can imagine based on the above it would be allowed to just slip through.
http://www.canepacollection.com/detail-2008-lola-t...
But I can imagine based on the above it would be allowed to just slip through.
Haggerty/CNA
Also, try contacting an insurance broker. Look it up. I think a couple of guys who took a Cerbera and a Tuscan over went through one that linked them to someone willing to underwrite their policies.
There are a couple of Griffiths floating around (Ohio, Florida) that are on regular insurance policies...Geico, State Farm, that sort of thing.
You will just have to be persistent and go down the list(s) till you find one.
Also, if it's for temporary import, will your insurance, or some other insurance company back home not cover it? Perhaps with a bit of extra payment?
Also, try contacting an insurance broker. Look it up. I think a couple of guys who took a Cerbera and a Tuscan over went through one that linked them to someone willing to underwrite their policies.
There are a couple of Griffiths floating around (Ohio, Florida) that are on regular insurance policies...Geico, State Farm, that sort of thing.
You will just have to be persistent and go down the list(s) till you find one.
Also, if it's for temporary import, will your insurance, or some other insurance company back home not cover it? Perhaps with a bit of extra payment?
And when you find an insurance company check their reputation too. Seems some Lotus owners here went to some lesser known but eager insurers to find cheaper rates but were left on their own when they had to file a claim. The Loti were 'Federalized' cars but with the rarity and fiber glass clam shells the insurance cost is unusually high. When I priced insurance on late model Elises/Exiges it was as high as more expensive late model 911's and Nissan GTR's. However, some specialty insurers will do it for much less but may ultimately not cover you as much as you would expect. On the other hand, I suppose every insurance company will have a few nightmare stories in the web.
Justices said:
Anyone have any suggestions for US TVR insurance for a non-resident? Contacted a few but no luck so far. California/NY/Florida specifically.
I called up 'Progressive' and they didn't have my Tamora on their register, so they were able to quote me using an agreed valuation quote...it came back at a pricey $1000 for 6 months but that is the first company I've tried...I'm trying to bring my TVR over as a non-resident for a year this Sep/Oct. I will keep you posted Contact Hagerty and ask for an agreed-upon value policy. They might be a bit leery of TVRs though...I think they had to pay out a lot on a previous policy.
Try CNA. Also, look for insurance brokers and ask them to shop your car around for a policy quote. Ask for "specialist" or collector car insurance, rather than kit car policies.
$1000 per six months is about double what it should be for an agreed-upon value. They are ripping you off...but if you don't find any cheaper alternatives, what choice do you have?? Good luck.
Try CNA. Also, look for insurance brokers and ask them to shop your car around for a policy quote. Ask for "specialist" or collector car insurance, rather than kit car policies.
$1000 per six months is about double what it should be for an agreed-upon value. They are ripping you off...but if you don't find any cheaper alternatives, what choice do you have?? Good luck.
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