Sagaris in the US??
Discussion
s2art said:Are you suggesting that Americans should drive on the right just so that they can save their automotive industry from becoming increasingly isolated?
The only reason the new Corvette isnt selling like hot cakes in the UK is that they put the steering wheel on the wrong side.
speedy_thrills said:
The only reason the new Corvette isnt selling like hot cakes in the UK is that they put the steering wheel on the wrong side.
Are you suggesting that Americans should drive on the right just so that they can save their automotive industry from becoming increasingly isolated?
I blame those damn rebels in 1776. God may well ride a Harley-Davidson but he drives a Bentley Turbo, with the steering wheel on the right!
speedy_thrills said:
The only reason the new Corvette isnt selling like hot cakes in the UK is that they put the steering wheel on the wrong side.
Are you suggesting that Americans should drive on the right just so that they can save their automotive industry from becoming increasingly isolated?
Red = Left hand drive
Blue = Right hand drive
Hi I live in the UK and you already have the answer. TVRs (and I have two) are by your engineering standards ---- RUBBISH. Stop hankering over something just because you are restricted. They are badly made over priced crap and the name as we in England all know stands for Total Vehicle Rebuild. Not every thing the authourities do is bad, sometimes they are right - honest. We have a program on the BBC called Top Gear that tests and summarises cars and it's a joke. They tell us how fast compared to a Porsche the T350 is but ommit what happens in an accident, where the Porsche driver walks away and he in the TVR says hello to life in a wheel chair. Build your own Mickey Mouse cars, you don't need ours. ps see you at Woodwork!
Colin.
Colin.
longone said:
They are badly made over priced crap and the name as we in England all know stands for Total Vehicle Rebuild....... They tell us how fast compared to a Porsche the T350 is but ommit what happens in an accident, where the Porsche driver walks away and he in the TVR says hello to life in a wheel chair.
Hmm
- Handmade, cheap for the performance.
- I think I include myself as being in England (my family have moved 4 miles in the last 462 years) and don't count myself in your 'all'.
- Interesting, but based on what actual evidence? Various crash tests have shown the impact absorbsion of fibreglass is better than steel, which transmits more of the impact to the vehicle occupants. Although at top speeds it would probably be only a comparison of puree thickness irrespective of which you drive.
You say you own two TVR's, why not sell them to someone who will appreciate them for what they are if this is your opinion of the marque? Seem odd comments from someone heading to Woodwork.
Personally I wish all the USA fans best of luck with the import attempts. As has been said, we are fairly lucky here with access to cars and my first run out in a Sagaris proved it's leach-like ability in corners.
Jerry
TVRCC RO Suffolk & Norfolk (England
) (ps, if that's you T, you are a stirring little #!?# & see you at Mid-Essex)
pib said:
And the Sagaris could be imported quite simply (relatively speaking, all these things are complex) with the HS-7 form check marked as "Show and Display".
I'm pretty sure this is not true. I've looked into this and even talked to Jay Leno about it when the Tuscan came out. The basic problem for the Sagaris is that it is still in production, and Show and Display is only for cars no longer in production (this is how it was explained to me by Jay). Even after it goes out of prod., it will still need to be designated as worthy of display (which is subjective obviously), and I also think there is a restriction that only 500 per year could have been made when it was in production.
At any rate, it seems unlikely that a TVR will ever qualify for this.
The only other option I know of is to import it for track use only, but then you cant take it on the road...
Also, someone who is not a citizen could import one for a year as long as they take it back out of the country (I think this is how Faisal got his Cerbera's in). Kinda irks me that my citizenship prevents me from doing this...
If this company in florida can prove they can do this, I'd be pretty tempted. But I think it would be more realistic for me to just fly to England a couple times a year and rent one for four days. No garaging, no insurance, no repairs, and I can drive a different model every time...
I think you are probably correct.
But then I wonder how Wyclif Jean (?) got his Zonda imported because it is arguably still produced although maybe a different model? Also, HS-7 show and display, as far as I could tell, would not allow you to drive the car on the road if the engine was not compliant but I'm all rusty on these matters now because I havn't bothered to look at them in a year or two. The Zonda's merc engine might be tunable to meet EPA since it is an engine that is possibly already on our shores.
But then I wonder how Wyclif Jean (?) got his Zonda imported because it is arguably still produced although maybe a different model? Also, HS-7 show and display, as far as I could tell, would not allow you to drive the car on the road if the engine was not compliant but I'm all rusty on these matters now because I havn't bothered to look at them in a year or two. The Zonda's merc engine might be tunable to meet EPA since it is an engine that is possibly already on our shores.
Anybody notice the pistonheads banners on the photographs on their site? I wonder if they got permission.
Isn't it great to live in a "free" country (USA) and be restricted from driving most of the hottest cars in the world? Oh well. I guess I have to save up for a Z06, and continue to dream of driving a TVR.
Isn't it great to live in a "free" country (USA) and be restricted from driving most of the hottest cars in the world? Oh well. I guess I have to save up for a Z06, and continue to dream of driving a TVR.
OrgasmicLiving said:
"It's one of the greatest looking cars, possibly, but hardly one of the greatest cars. Do you know the reality of TVRs? That they are leaky, rattly, poor-handling, underpowered, overpriced, unreliable pieces of crap?"
Agreed, for those of you overseas who have more opportunity to experience the new TVRs than we do in the states, I guess one can get jaded. But based on my experience earlier this year being treated to road tests in both a Tamora and a Sagaris, they were anything but poor handling and underpowered. The time in the Sagaris was on a rainy day and there were no leaks. And neither was rattly. In fact, I found the Sagaris to be extremely well put together and both it and the Tamora provided phenomenal performance and handling. I could not speak to the issue of reliability because I was not able to spend extended periods of time in either. As for being overpriced....I feel that in comparison with other cars which are similar in performance and handling to the current crop of TVRs, TVR provides quite the bargain.
"It's one of the greatest looking cars, possibly, but hardly one of the greatest cars. Do you know the reality of TVRs? That they are leaky, rattly, poor-handling, underpowered, overpriced, unreliable pieces of crap?"
Agreed, for those of you overseas who have more opportunity to experience the new TVRs than we do in the states, I guess one can get jaded. But based on my experience earlier this year being treated to road tests in both a Tamora and a Sagaris, they were anything but poor handling and underpowered. The time in the Sagaris was on a rainy day and there were no leaks. And neither was rattly. In fact, I found the Sagaris to be extremely well put together and both it and the Tamora provided phenomenal performance and handling. I could not speak to the issue of reliability because I was not able to spend extended periods of time in either. As for being overpriced....I feel that in comparison with other cars which are similar in performance and handling to the current crop of TVRs, TVR provides quite the bargain.
taimar78 said:
OrgasmicLiving said:
...I guess one can get jaded.
Not at all. I used to love TVRs. Had several, including the Cerbera. You just have to know the truth and go in with your eyes open. Jaded would be having a lot of cool cars and not being impressed by them anymore. I am still impressed by cool cars. I don't think TVRs are cool in any way except looks. That's the sad reality.
taimar78 said:
OrgasmicLiving said:But based on my experience earlier this year being treated to road tests in both a Tamora and a Sagaris, they were anything but poor handling and underpowered.
They are poor handling. Try a roundabout in the wet at a speed that a Mitsubishi Eclipse or Renault Clio can do. Actually, don't. Try braking in a straight line. Try hustling around some B-roads next time. You will be playing with your life, so take out plenty of life insurance before you do.
By underpowered, I meant, with respect to claimed power. The cars do not make the power they are claimed to put out. The only way to tell is on a dyno. Find one car that makes the advertised power on a dyno, and I will be the first to apologise. Just one car.
taimar78 said:
The time in the Sagaris was on a rainy day and there were no leaks. And neither was rattly.
You got lucky or you didn't spend enough time in it in the rain. And this does make me wonder how fast you actually went to be able to claim that it handled well. Maybe it didn't leak in the passenger cabin, but leave it parked outside in the rain and see if it starts the next day. And check the carpets in the footwells. The cabin can and does leak! Maybe they did get around to fixing the flooding spark plug cavities...whoop de doo! Real quality, eh?
taimar78 said:I am sorry, but how did you test that it was extremely well put-together? Did you know that bonnets flew off at high speeds? That leather bits start flapping around after the glue dries in a few months? That the passenger dashboard cubby is just a poorly-designed flap? That they have even done away with the nice ally bits and put in plastic Ford switchgear? That the instruments crap out constantly. That the headlight pods mist up? Just take a look at the shock mounting points and tell me that the shock works optimally, at the angle it is mounted at.
In fact, I found the Sagaris to be extremely well put together and both it and the Tamora provided phenomenal performance and handling.
It's a slapped together pile of bits. I do agree it looks good. Although I would get the bonnet slats cut out and the bit around the side-exiting exhaust redone.
taimar78 said:
I could not speak to the issue of reliability because I was not able to spend extended periods of time in either.
They are unreliable. The engines go bang in 8,000 miles. Just ask the designer of the engine, Al Melling, what changes they made, and how critical those changes are. I believe the threads are here on Pistonheads, so do a search for Al Melling. I am not associated with Al Melling in any way, for the record. I just believe that the current design is a recipe for disaster, and if the design is not changed then the reliability (or lack thereof) won't either. TVR can extend the warranty all they like. It will only make their costs go up. That's a band-aid, not a solution, as they say in America.
taimar78 said:You are comparing them to the wrong thing. Compare them to Superformance Cobras ($50,000 or so) or Ultimas that make half as much power($50,000 or so). TVRs are at $100k+.
As for being overpriced....I feel that in comparison with other cars which are similar in performance and handling to the current crop of TVRs, TVR provides quite the bargain.
Why would you compare them to Lamborghinis or Ferraris that are complete packages and make more power and provide better handling? Let's not talk about Porsche, as you will bring up intangibles like "soul"--just remember the special "soul" of your car next time you are 300 miles deep into France and the car goes kaput. My friend's Sagaris and Tuscan sure had soul. After they broke down once too often, they got sold.
Anyone read Evo's Car of the Year issue. TVR Sagaris came last. Can anyone fault their methodology?
SmellMyPinkies is an idiot. He gave the only development Sagaris at the factory to his wife! He runs the company reactively, not pro-actively. Policy is changed on the basis of snap-decisions, every 5 minutes, and virtually every decision is incorrect and rescinded later, whether it is to spend millions of pounds setting up shop in Moscow, or making TVR-branded vodka. He's a kid, and when daddy stops doling out the cash, the factory will be sold.
TVRs are now completely outclassed and overpriced.
>> Edited by orgasmicliving!! on Thursday 29th December 17:30
[/quote]I am sorry, but how did you test that it was extremely well put-together? Did you know that bonnets flew off at high speeds? That leather bits start flapping around after the glue dries in a few months? That the passenger dashboard cubby is just a poorly-designed flap? That they have even done away with the nice ally bits and put in plastic Ford switchgear? That the instruments crap out constantly. That the headlight pods mist up? Just take a look at the shock mounting points and tell me that the shock works optimally, at the angle it is mounted at.
It's a slapped together pile of bits. I do agree it looks good.
That's just nitpicking! That's why we like them!!!!!!
It's a slapped together pile of bits. I do agree it looks good.
That's just nitpicking! That's why we like them!!!!!!
Quite obviously you are each going to have your opinions and aren't interested in anyone having opposite thoughts.
But we did experience speeds of 130+ mph on B-roads in each case. Agreed my experiences were limited, compared with living with either for an extended period of time. If your experiences were that things tend to come undone, or unglued, then so be it. I was simply stating what I had experienced. So, if I experienced examples that did not rattle, didn't have bonnets fly off, handled quite well, and had what I felt was impressive performance, then that is my opinion. Sorry it doesn't match your impressions. I didn't claim that either TVR was a Mercedes or Porsche in quality, nor did I expect that.
But we did experience speeds of 130+ mph on B-roads in each case. Agreed my experiences were limited, compared with living with either for an extended period of time. If your experiences were that things tend to come undone, or unglued, then so be it. I was simply stating what I had experienced. So, if I experienced examples that did not rattle, didn't have bonnets fly off, handled quite well, and had what I felt was impressive performance, then that is my opinion. Sorry it doesn't match your impressions. I didn't claim that either TVR was a Mercedes or Porsche in quality, nor did I expect that.
taimar78 said:
Quite obviously you are each going to have your opinions and aren't interested in anyone having opposite thoughts.
But we did experience speeds of 130+ mph on B-roads in each case. Agreed my experiences were limited, compared with living with either for an extended period of time. If your experiences were that things tend to come undone, or unglued, then so be it. I was simply stating what I had experienced. So, if I experienced examples that did not rattle, didn't have bonnets fly off, handled quite well, and had what I felt was impressive performance, then that is my opinion. Sorry it doesn't match your impressions. I didn't claim that either TVR was a Mercedes or Porsche in quality, nor did I expect that.
I am interested in your viewpoint, but it is just one of many. The overall picture that emerges is far more representative than the viewpoint of one person based on one experience.
We all have many happy, exciting memories (or fantasies) with TVRs. In reality, there are far too many horror stories. Some of them will never come to light because whenever TVR settles matters legally (only when their hand is forced) one of the conditions of the settlement is a gag order--always. I have seen the document template they use to demand that you never mention it in public.
The overall picture is grim. One shouldn't lose sight of the forest for the tree(s).
>> Edited by orgasmicliving!! on Saturday 21st January 16:37
No disrespect to TVR.
But why would someone want to import a TVR to the USA?
I've read nightmare stories of being without cars for lord knows how long because of engine rebuilds etc etc.
Imgaine that sort of scenario happening to cars once imported into the USA.
Not as if you can pop it back to the TVR factory very easily.
But why would someone want to import a TVR to the USA?
I've read nightmare stories of being without cars for lord knows how long because of engine rebuilds etc etc.
Imgaine that sort of scenario happening to cars once imported into the USA.
Not as if you can pop it back to the TVR factory very easily.
Ferraris today are very reliable and driven a fair amount by their owners. They are no longer garage queens like the pre-355 models were.
TVR's profile has declined in all respects except price. They have outdone Ferrari in their price jumps on a percentage basis. In terms of total cost of ownership, they have probably outdone Ferrari on a real basis too.
Wonder how many people would change their minds about TVR if they saw the real records for the number of Speed 6 engines that have required a rebuild.
TVR's profile has declined in all respects except price. They have outdone Ferrari in their price jumps on a percentage basis. In terms of total cost of ownership, they have probably outdone Ferrari on a real basis too.
Wonder how many people would change their minds about TVR if they saw the real records for the number of Speed 6 engines that have required a rebuild.
firstly orgasmicliving!! TVR griffiths are not underpowered they are faster than most vettes and better handling. The older TVRs never need rebuilds and all this rebuild stuff on the speed six is due to when people thrash the hell out of the car straight away from starting up the car without it warming up or they are laid up over the winter and most people who know about TVRs would say they are more reliable if you use them
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