'It's out of warranty, sir'.
Discussion
Evening all. Last December I bought, as a second vehicle, for private use, a used Citroen Nemo automatic van, 85k miles, '59 plate, from a Citroen franchise operated by a well-known Scottish dealer group. I paid £3500, which is about the going rate for a van of its age and condition. The salesman stated that the handbook & service record had been mislaid and would turn up before the handover, but they never did. In hindsight that should have rung an alarm bell or two, but I proceeded with the sale regardless.
The salesman also told me that the van was covered by a two month warranty...what could possibly go wrong?!
As soon as I left the showroom I heard a knocking noise coming from the rear suspension. I reported it and the dealer promptly replaced two shock absorbers, free of charge, without quibble...
...And then, just over a week ago the van ground to a halt with a gearbox problem. I'm no mechanic, but it felt and sounded fairly serious. I had it recovered and returned to the dealer on the back of a truck. I've had a call from the dealer, saying that as the van is out of warranty there will be a charge to remove, strip down the auto 'box, and find out what the fault might be. The charge...£500...and that's before anything is repaired or replaced!
I'm aware that car dealers are not charities, but this lot are adamant that I have to pay this ludicrous charge, without any compromise, because their warranty has expired. They don't care that I've owned the van for just three months, and done less than a thousand miles in it. I could potentially be forking out more than half the van's value just to have it repaired, and I'm not prepared to do that.
As it stands, my van is worth little more than scrap value. It was supposed to be my wee runabout and dog taxi, but it's now a potential money-pit. Any advice/similar experiences would be a great help..thanks in advance.
The salesman also told me that the van was covered by a two month warranty...what could possibly go wrong?!
As soon as I left the showroom I heard a knocking noise coming from the rear suspension. I reported it and the dealer promptly replaced two shock absorbers, free of charge, without quibble...
...And then, just over a week ago the van ground to a halt with a gearbox problem. I'm no mechanic, but it felt and sounded fairly serious. I had it recovered and returned to the dealer on the back of a truck. I've had a call from the dealer, saying that as the van is out of warranty there will be a charge to remove, strip down the auto 'box, and find out what the fault might be. The charge...£500...and that's before anything is repaired or replaced!
I'm aware that car dealers are not charities, but this lot are adamant that I have to pay this ludicrous charge, without any compromise, because their warranty has expired. They don't care that I've owned the van for just three months, and done less than a thousand miles in it. I could potentially be forking out more than half the van's value just to have it repaired, and I'm not prepared to do that.
As it stands, my van is worth little more than scrap value. It was supposed to be my wee runabout and dog taxi, but it's now a potential money-pit. Any advice/similar experiences would be a great help..thanks in advance.
"well-known Scottish dealer group"
afraid that was probably your first mistake, they really are a bunch of sharks, dreadful lot to deal with, probably not much help to you but you have my sympathy..
good luck!
ETA dont go anywhere near them for the repairs, it will only get worse, try and find a decent indie garage thats local to you, even better if anyone you know could suggest one they have used
afraid that was probably your first mistake, they really are a bunch of sharks, dreadful lot to deal with, probably not much help to you but you have my sympathy..
good luck!
ETA dont go anywhere near them for the repairs, it will only get worse, try and find a decent indie garage thats local to you, even better if anyone you know could suggest one they have used
Edited by briang9 on Tuesday 15th March 23:22
Edited by briang9 on Tuesday 15th March 23:22
velocefica said:
Even if they'd sold it without a warranty. They are a dealer so they have responsibility under the law to either fix it or refund the price you paid.
Unless they'd sold it as seen and you'd both signed the receipt then their is no getting away from it.
They do, do they?Unless they'd sold it as seen and you'd both signed the receipt then their is no getting away from it.
Age, mileage, price etc have no bearing on that at all?
Centurion07 said:
They do, do they?
Age, mileage, price etc have no bearing on that at all?
It's completely reasonable to expect a 3500£ 88k van to work for more than three months without a major failure Age, mileage, price etc have no bearing on that at all?
That aside your mistake wasn't buying from the dealer it was buying a French automatic diesel can.
I doubt anyone on here would have told you to go ahead with it.
jamoor said:
It's completely reasonable to expect a 3500£ 88k van to work for more than three months without a major failure
That aside your mistake wasn't buying from the dealer it was buying a French automatic diesel can.
I doubt anyone on here would have told you to go ahead with it.
Why? My mate regularly sees high miler French diesels (20yrs+ main dealer mechanic). Recently he had a 400kmiler 1.6 Diesel Citroen van in that's used as a courier. That aside your mistake wasn't buying from the dealer it was buying a French automatic diesel can.
I doubt anyone on here would have told you to go ahead with it.
OP you need legal advice. If it's AC you need to get to take advice and be blunt, show that you are not a pushover. I'd also start kicking off over the lied about service histoey- that's a side note but shows they started out concealing things about this vehicle.
I remember a Scottish Sales manager standing nose to nose with me over a failed promised spare key, smirking and shouting for the benefit of his sniggering sales staff. I stayed very calm and he folded. From their tactics to that point I vowed never to visit a AC dealer again.
Get legal advice. Why should you be ripped off/lied to twice? I wonder if they've already got it incapacitated ready to start ripping you off.
jamoor said:
It's completely reasonable to expect a 3500£ 88k van to work for more than three months without a major failure
That aside your mistake wasn't buying from the dealer it was buying a French automatic diesel can.
I doubt anyone on here would have told you to go ahead with it.
No. It's completely reasonable to expect an ageing mechanical device to suffer problems at any time. That aside your mistake wasn't buying from the dealer it was buying a French automatic diesel can.
I doubt anyone on here would have told you to go ahead with it.
However, the law assists you here OP. The Consumer Rights Act entitles you to repair/replacement if the fault was present at the time you bought the van. There is also a presumption, as there was when the Sale of Goods Act governed these things, that if the fault appears within 6 months of contract that it was there at the time. It is just a presumption though - if the dealer could show that in fact, the fault was not there at the time you bought and developed subsequently then you would be entitled to nothing. Obviously outside a court room, it will be between you and them to establish which is true and agree an appropriate remedy.
Moominator said:
Why? My mate regularly sees high miler French diesels (20yrs+ main dealer mechanic). Recently he had a 400kmiler 1.6 Diesel Citroen van in that's used as a courier.
OP you need legal advice. If it's AC you need to get to take advice and be blunt, show that you are not a pushover. I'd also start kicking off over the lied about service histoey- that's a side note but shows they started out concealing things about this vehicle.
I remember a Scottish Sales manager standing nose to nose with me over a failed promised spare key, smirking and shouting for the benefit of his sniggering sales staff. I stayed very calm and he folded. From their tactics to that point I vowed never to visit a AC dealer again.
Get legal advice. Why should you be ripped off/lied to twice? I wonder if they've already got it incapacitated ready to start ripping you off.
That's one hell of an assumption to make without any evidence to support it. The missing service history may show it's got a full service history, but without seeing it how do you know?OP you need legal advice. If it's AC you need to get to take advice and be blunt, show that you are not a pushover. I'd also start kicking off over the lied about service histoey- that's a side note but shows they started out concealing things about this vehicle.
I remember a Scottish Sales manager standing nose to nose with me over a failed promised spare key, smirking and shouting for the benefit of his sniggering sales staff. I stayed very calm and he folded. From their tactics to that point I vowed never to visit a AC dealer again.
Get legal advice. Why should you be ripped off/lied to twice? I wonder if they've already got it incapacitated ready to start ripping you off.
We're talking about a 6-7yo 90k mile autobox in a van. It's been working fine for three months, so clearly isn't a pre-existing fault.
Is it reasonable for an autobox to fail through wear at that mileage? Perhaps. It's not a traditional autobox - it's the EGS electronically-automated manual. Is it a mechanical or electronic problem? If it's mechanical, do we know if the fluid level was regularly checked since purchase, for a start?
There's only one way to find out if the dealer is legally responsible under CRA15 - and that's to take them to court and hope you win.
They could easily say that they're offering to remove the box and check for problems that they might be legally responsible for, but warning you that you will be liable for the cost if the problem is found not to be on their plate.
Is it reasonable for an autobox to fail through wear at that mileage? Perhaps. It's not a traditional autobox - it's the EGS electronically-automated manual. Is it a mechanical or electronic problem? If it's mechanical, do we know if the fluid level was regularly checked since purchase, for a start?
There's only one way to find out if the dealer is legally responsible under CRA15 - and that's to take them to court and hope you win.
They could easily say that they're offering to remove the box and check for problems that they might be legally responsible for, but warning you that you will be liable for the cost if the problem is found not to be on their plate.
Moominator said:
Why? My mate regularly sees high miler French diesels (20yrs+ main dealer mechanic). Recently he had a 400kmiler 1.6 Diesel Citroen van in that's used as a courier.
OP you need legal advice. If it's AC you need to get to take advice and be blunt, show that you are not a pushover. I'd also start kicking off over the lied about service histoey- that's a side note but shows they started out concealing things about this vehicle.
I remember a Scottish Sales manager standing nose to nose with me over a failed promised spare key, smirking and shouting for the benefit of his sniggering sales staff. I stayed very calm and he folded. From their tactics to that point I vowed never to visit a AC dealer again.
Get legal advice. Why should you be ripped off/lied to twice? I wonder if they've already got it incapacitated ready to start ripping you off.
Was it an automatic? The big issue is that, never trust a French auto.OP you need legal advice. If it's AC you need to get to take advice and be blunt, show that you are not a pushover. I'd also start kicking off over the lied about service histoey- that's a side note but shows they started out concealing things about this vehicle.
I remember a Scottish Sales manager standing nose to nose with me over a failed promised spare key, smirking and shouting for the benefit of his sniggering sales staff. I stayed very calm and he folded. From their tactics to that point I vowed never to visit a AC dealer again.
Get legal advice. Why should you be ripped off/lied to twice? I wonder if they've already got it incapacitated ready to start ripping you off.
Their older Diesel engines are excellent
I now realise that buying a French auto wasn't my wisest ever decision, but we needed a van for our dog & for runs to the recycling tip etc, and my wife has a left knee problem that prevents her from driving a manual. Small auto vans are pretty rare, and I ended up buying the first one I looked at.
I have written to the previous registered keeper to ask if he is willing to shed any light on the van's history...and also to ask why, as its second keeper, he disposed of it after only three months...
Regarding the salesman's promise to provide manuals & service record - well it's my word against his; I can never prove he made such an undertaking.
The consumer helpline I contacted state that if the van is found to have an inherent manufacturing fault, then I have a good case; if the failure is put down to wear & tear, then I'm screwed, basically. If the dealer takes £500 from me to strip the 'box down, obviously it's in their interest to say 'it's wear & tear - tough titty'. I can then insist on having an independent specialist examine it - that won't be free, & they may come to the same conclusion. So I'll still have a broken van and I'll be another few hundred down on the deal.
There's also the small matter that the dealer may soon get tired of seeing my van on his premises whilst I decide what to do; apparently he may be entitled to charge me storage!
All your comments so far have been really interesting & constructive, please keep 'em coming.
I have written to the previous registered keeper to ask if he is willing to shed any light on the van's history...and also to ask why, as its second keeper, he disposed of it after only three months...
Regarding the salesman's promise to provide manuals & service record - well it's my word against his; I can never prove he made such an undertaking.
The consumer helpline I contacted state that if the van is found to have an inherent manufacturing fault, then I have a good case; if the failure is put down to wear & tear, then I'm screwed, basically. If the dealer takes £500 from me to strip the 'box down, obviously it's in their interest to say 'it's wear & tear - tough titty'. I can then insist on having an independent specialist examine it - that won't be free, & they may come to the same conclusion. So I'll still have a broken van and I'll be another few hundred down on the deal.
There's also the small matter that the dealer may soon get tired of seeing my van on his premises whilst I decide what to do; apparently he may be entitled to charge me storage!
All your comments so far have been really interesting & constructive, please keep 'em coming.
velocefica said:
Unless they'd sold it as seen and you'd both signed the receipt then their is no getting away from it.
Sold as seen on a car sales invoice from a garage or trader is a no no, it can actually make matters worse for the seller due to fact that the buyer can argue that it was an attempt to remove their statutory rights. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff