The New F1 Engine debacle......

[A Scotsman]

A very interesting piece on this topic has popped up here....

http://www.pitpass.com/44034-Exclusive-17-F1-circu...

I have one simple question. If the FIA are intent on the sport becoming "greener" then why not just change the type of fuel it uses rather than introduce a new engine? 100% methanol has been used in the USA in Indy Cars (or one of those series) and it's now possible to use bio-butanol and a range of other fuels.

[Eric Mc]

Interesting article - but it has nothing to do with engines or fuel. It is to do with the circuits, finally, geting together to form a unified block against the FIA and Bernie. For too long they have been shafted left right and centre by those who run F1 and they are using the engine changes as a means of flexing their muscles.

All I can say is, one takes on Bernie at one's peril.

[AlpineWhite]

Eric,

I've only scanned through the article, but doesn't it say that Bernie is supporting the circuits?

Reading between the lines, I might, if I were feeling cynical, even suggest that Bernie has orchestrated this? The engine debacle of late seems to have been Bernie vs the FIA, rather than the two being in cohorts.

[Eric Mc]

AlpineWhite said:

Eric,

I've only scanned through the article, but doesn't it say that Bernie is supporting the circuits?

Reading between the lines, I might, if I were feeling cynical, even suggest that Bernie has orchestrated this? The engine debacle of late seems to have been Bernie vs the FIA, rather than the two being in cohorts.

In wouldn't put it past Bernie. He is a master tactician. He could be setting up teh circuits so that any remaining power they have is totally crushed - leaving him, CVC and the FIA totally free tio take F1 where they want to on their own terms.

Bernie makes Machiavelli look like an amateur.

[davepoth]

I don't think Bernie likes Todt. This wouldn't be the first time he's hung him out to dry.

[AlpineWhite]

a lift from 12k to 15k rpm now on the cards:

autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92664

[Scuffers]

AlpineWhite said:

a lift from 12k to 15k rpm now on the cards:

autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92664

what's the obsession with rev-limits?

originally, it was done for cost, but now the engines have to live for 3-4 races, why is it needed?

[AlpineWhite]

Well, generally, more revs = more noise and more cost, so I imagine it's a matter of finding a balance between the two.

[miniman]

As I think Coulthard said recently, if there's really am ambition to reduce the environmental impact of F1, they just need to reduce each race by 2 or 3 laps.

[Davidonly]

DC also said today (on the coverage of GP) that the 2.4 V8 couldn't pull the skin of a rice pudding, refering to torque. He was comparing them to the V10 that he was used to. I think we need to allow engineers more not less freedom to innovate and maintain F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport.

It won't be long until all this CO2 bks gets exposed for the scam it is! We the fans should lobby in anyway we can to keep F1 loud, fast, exciting, hi tech. 'Green' is not relevant.

I am not likely to visit Silverstone to watch a 'green' version of my favourite sport.....

I hope to watch LeMans next year in preparation for s switch of focus.

[Eric Mc]

What would you have thought of the 1.5 litre formula of 1961-1965 - the era that brought us Jim Clark and 4 of the 5 championships being won by a British driver.

[Wiggo]

Davidonly said:

I hope to watch LeMans next year in preparation for s switch of focus.

You're going to be sorely disappointed with the turbo diesels then...

[anonymous-user]

nice interview with Adrian on the F1 Forum.

Audi was the reason for the I4, the teams agreed on it to get audi on board, audi they then pulled out, so no reason to keep the I4 any more.

Sounds like they are still debating the rev limit, could be 16K, so it's all up in the air at the moment apart from the fact it will be V6 in 2014.

[rdjohn]

Wiggo said:

Davidonly said:

I hope to watch LeMans next year in preparation for s switch of focus.

You're going to be sorely disappointed with the turbo diesels then...

My thoughts exactly; the Audi whooshing past with no exhaust note just kills the notion that they are racing.

[Crafty_]

just to add to the above Newey said an I4 is difficult to package because it can't be made a stressed member so would have to have a cage/support around it.
V6 is much easier to package.

[Derek Smith]

A Scotsman said:

A very interesting piece on this topic has popped up here....

http://www.pitpass.com/44034-Exclusive-17-F1-circu...

I find this very difficult to understand. Silverstone, Monaco and Monza abandoning F1 and running races to IndyCar regs.

I can't see the advantages. I know money is a big incentive but it is a shot in the dark.

I know everything is political but this seems blatently so.

Very odd. I'd need a lot more info than is contained in the article to even come a little way to understanding the motives.

Has anyone got a firm handle on this?

[A Scotsman]

Derek Smith said:

Very odd. I'd need a lot more info than is contained in the article to even come a little way to understanding the motives.

Yes it is odd but on the other hand Pitpass are rather unlikely to publish something that they didn't check out first.

However - is anyone going to answer my question which - just to remind you - is whether F1 should be adopting this new engine in order to improve its "Green" credentials or should it be keeping broadly the same size engine with similar characteristics to the present one and using a bio or other alternative fuel instead.

[27dickie]

A Scotsman said:

Yes it is odd but on the other hand Pitpass are rather unlikely to publish something that they didn't check out first...

Ya reckon? They're essentially Bernie's mouthpiece, so it's not surprising that they seem to dislike the engine regs...

A Scotsman said:

However - is anyone going to answer my question which - just to remind you - is whether F1 should be adopting this new engine in order to improve its "Green" credentials or should it be keeping broadly the same size engine with similar characteristics to the present one and using a bio or other alternative fuel instead.

I reckon so. Not so much for being "green", but I do think it's important for F1 to stay at least some way relevant to the motor industry. F1 is meant to be on the cutting edge of technology, and it seems as if the development of the internal combustion engine as a technology is heading on the route of forced induction, energy recovery systems and so on. So F1 should keep pace with that development.

Besides, F1 used 1.5 turbos in the 80s and no-one thought they were boring then...

[Eric Mc]

Mainly because they produced over 1,000 bhp and blew up a lot.

Modern turbos will be quiet, lower powered, rev limited and dull.

[Wiggo]

They are presumably going to push the angle of advancing turbo engine technology to the benefit of road car development, which at least keeps the notion of F1 being an engineering pinnacle. Pioneering more efficient technologies may have a significant benefit to the industry as a whole, rather than the insignificant savings from running 24 cars on bio fuels.